Dual Battery Revisited

Post by **ToNkA** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:26 pm

Ok, still trying to sort out the best set up for this.

I am going to have to mount second battery in tray as it has proved to be too difficult to simply rearange the engine bay to fit a second battery.

I only want the second battery to aid in winching (not for fridges etc...) So If I have done my homework right I am after a second standard battery, not a seep cycle one.

Now I have been looking at the simple dual battery solenoids/isolators and I am still confussed on what I want for my set up and how and what I should wire up to each battery. Pirranah says have the winch attached to the main battery and run Auxiliry stuff off the other battery. I dont have that much auxiliry stuff like fridges etc, so I then wonder why I need the second battery in the tray at all.

So to add more info:

I want to run Driving/Spot lights.
Highmount winch.
UHF
Stereo

Thats really it, not wanting or going to have a fridge etc, anything that requires deep cycle batteries. SO whats my best bet for wiring it all up and how to manage charging?

I want to run the winch soley off the second battery, but with it in the tray would it now be too far away and the ressitance through the cables be too much. I also read that with a simple solenoid dual battery set up, the auxiliry battery for winching wont be charged quick enough under extreme heavy loads....

wuah......

I am getting to confussed by all this. Can someone set me straight on what set up I need/want and how it should be done?

Cheers

Post by **BeZeRK** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:08 pm

Simplest setup that works

2 batteries, your main battery which is used solely for starting and winching. The second battery which you run lights and radios and all ya other little bits off.

The solonid just gets activated by somthing when the ignition is switched on, ie wiper motor.

which battery the winch is hooked up too really dont matter once the solinoid is activated reallly doesnt matter cause they are joined in parrallel. when the car is off you only want your stereo and radios draining your second battery.

this way your main battery is only being used when the engine is running etc or winching, the second battery is always powering lights etc and if it goes flat you still have ya main battery to start with?
ive written this real qwuick so i hope it makes sense?

Post by **V8Patrol** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:31 pm

pics at ...
http://www.piranhaoffroad.com.au/produc ... lator2.htm

Also "BeZeRK" ....would you have a wiring digram of the above ?????

Post by **Area54** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:46 pm

I think you are better off using the standard battery for running all the vehicle standard accessories, and using the second battery for your aftermarket accessories. Use similar batteries, and use a smart solenoid to isolate the drain. These smart solenoids use diode packs to isolate the batteries from each other when under load (but can be bypassed via a simple switch and cable).

Nothing can be more frustrating than the slow whirr-whirr-whirr of a battery struggling to start your rig on a night run after a recovery... and don't say that you won't turn off your motor - how often have you seen a vehicle stall when driving?

Post by **ToNkA** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:59 pm

Well it looks like I will run everything off the rear battery in the tray and have the main battery in the engine bay for starting and winching, and use the safety switch (I just read about) that allows starting of the car off the auxilary battery incase the main battery is knackered.

So when running a battery box in the tray, anythign I should look out for?

Post by **Area54** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:04 pm

Make sure the battery is held very securely - don't rely on those webbing straps that come with the black plastic batt boxes. Bolt it down hard, nice and low. Don't go cheap on the cables, and preferably solder all joints correctly, or get them professionally crimped.

Post by **ToNkA** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:25 pm

Will do!

Post by **Andrew_C** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:53 pm

The way I did it which seems to work really well and you cannot get two flat batterys is to run the solinoid between the batteries and then run everything off the main battery. Then when the ignition is turned on the batteries are joined or when I press a button on the dash. A few of my friends run a fridge and lights on one and the other runs the normal car stuff so when the fridge runs the battery flat and the stereo and interior light run the other flat they still can't start thier car. Mine is both are connected when the ignition is on (ie don't know why I would winch at least without the ignition on- I wouldn't do it without the motor running unless an emergency) and only one when off. Simple and works like a charm.( and cheap as chips - only a high current solinoid that I just got from the auto elecs for about $25. and some cable)
So to your second battery you would only need to run a positive battery cable in the tray. My mates $700 peranah stuff doesn't work anywhere near as good.

Post by **BundyRumandCoke** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:03 pm

Tonka
Here is a diagram of a dual battery setup using a relay and continuous duty solinoid. Hopefully, you can read my chicken scratch.

Cheers
David

http://groups.msn.com/AussieDaihatsuRoc ... hotoID=122

Post by **Robbo** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:31 pm

The smart solenoid that area54 speaks of in my truck has seen service in tw0 rigs over a 7 year period & has performed faultlessly. Start & winching from original bat & second bat starts rig if 1st one goes flat. It provides charge priority to 1st bat. Worry about eng & winch bat 1st & accessories come 2nd. Would rather have winch power than cold beer!

Post by **MissDrew** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:15 pm

Tonka save yourself some money and hassles and just join the 2 batteries together with a big bit of cable.

I have this as like you I only have winch and lights and it hasn`t given me any trouble yet.

Post by **davejb** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:04 pm

Guts wrote:Tonka save yourself some money and hassles and just join the 2 batteries together with a big bit of cable.

I have this as like you I only have winch and lights and it hasn`t given me any trouble yet.

I agree with guts, this is the way I have always set mine up with no problems. If your really worried about fridges and camp lights etc you can open the bonnet and disconnect the link cable over night.

Dave

Post by **mc dave** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:38 pm

The big bit of cable works when it does but if one battery goes down it takes the other one with it. Its all good till its all bad and expensive.

Area54's option sounds good with the diode / solenoid option.

As a bare minimum, put in a solenoid so the batteries are only connected when the engine is running

I do agree that there is no point spending a whole heap of cash on an "intelligent" battery monitor... how smart can it really be???

Post by **ToNkA** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:57 pm

Ok, have it all sorted.

Might aswell ask where is the best place in melb (read cheapeast) to pick up a battery box and cables etc? Are some better than others or is it all much of a muchness?

Post by **toonfish** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:13 am

picking up two sweet batteries for 40 bux in morning
70 ah is 80 bux?
kewl

Post by **ToNkA** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:28 pm

toonfish wrote:picking up two sweet batteries for 40 bux in morning
70 ah is 80 bux?
kewl

Did you think before you typed that and hit reply or just fart on your keyboard?

Post by **Area54** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:11 pm

ToNkA wrote:
Might aswell ask where is the best place in melb (read cheapeast) to pick up cables etc?

Here's a tip if you are thinking budget - get the main battery cable out of the Hilux from the local boneyard - cable from the battery to the starter is about 1.8+ metre long - crimped fittings already set, good cheap source of cable! You can clean the ends of the cables (if they are a bit oxidised) with some liquid solder flux (rinse clean with water to prevent corrosion) if you want to solder. Works well, who said I was cheap...

Post by **toonfish** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:33 pm

well it wasnt a wet fart at least .
my wallet is officially lighter
a waeco cf 50 show special and all the crap for $990
listed price was 1074???????
hmmmmm
plus 2 batteries for 80 :lol:

Post by **ToNkA** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:43 pm

toonfish wrote:well it wasnt a wet fart at least .
my wallet is officially lighter
a waeco cf 50 show special and all the crap for $990
listed price was 1074???????
hmmmmm
plus 2 batteries for 80

Again?

What are you conrtibuting to this thread other than your abililty to log on and type random sentences?

Post by **RUFF** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:39 am

ToNkA wrote:
Might aswell ask where is the best place in melb (read cheapeast) to pick up a battery box and cables etc? Are some better than others or is it all much of a muchness?

toonfish wrote:picking up two sweet batteries for 40 bux in morning
70 ah is 80 bux?
kewl

Is this not an answer to part of your Question?

The guy bought 2 batteries for $40.

And a 70AmpHour Battery is $80.

Or did you just ask the question but not realy want someone to answer it :roll:

Post by **toonfish** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:32 am

my thoughts too!!!!

Post by **ToNkA** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:02 am

RUFF wrote:
ToNkA wrote:
Might aswell ask where is the best place in melb (read cheapeast) to pick up a battery box and cables etc? Are some better than others or is it all much of a muchness?

toonfish wrote:picking up two sweet batteries for 40 bux in morning
70 ah is 80 bux?
kewl

Is this not an answer to part of your Question?

The guy bought 2 batteries for $40.

And a 70AmpHour Battery is $80.

Or did you just ask the question but not realy want someone to answer it

Without starting an argument. I was asking where, and in earlier posts I was asking details of setups.

Someone telling me that they got a bargain on batteries and asking a question about the 70AmpHour Battery (It did end in a question mark) really has not aided my search for info on the topic.

I may have been harsh in my reply, and yes you Ruff love to crack down on me (and others I think) being harsh to others on the forum, but in all respect the post did annoy me and did not help me.

I am sorry that you had to come in here and sort out the commotion.

:roll:

Post by **BeZeRK** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:30 pm

tonka, wiring is simple,

+wire from main battery to Large solinoid terminal
+wire from 2nd Large solonid terminal to second battery

earth just connects to earth

one of the solonoid small terminals goes to earth
the other goes to ignition (i normally pickup of wiper motor as its easy to get to!

like others have said the smart soinoids are prob better in the long run, but are more expensive! they are setup in exactly the same way though, they just dont start charging the second battery untill the main battery has more than around 13.2 volts. The normal solonoid continuosly charges both batterys, like you said, if you putr in a switch to the second battery, when heavy winching is going on you can disable the 2nd battery and full charge goes into the winch.

Post by **toonfish** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:09 pm

while we are on the subject does anyone use a voltage regulator or cutout at 14.4 or similair to alleviate overcharge on 2nd battery?

Post by **Robbo** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:43 pm

No toonfish cos my second batt in my petrol GU usually gets fryed beyond redemption after about 24 months, its a very hot area of engine bay.(pass rear corner) so i don't bother.

Post by **David Lovejoy** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:32 am

I have always done what BeZerK suggests. Except I wire the ops side to a H/D manual switch instead of a system switch (like the wipers).

I always make sure my second battery is a deep cycle type - at present it is a 90Amphour DETA Blue - it runs all the auxillaries and has the juice to start the 200Tdi if the primary battery dies. The primary battery is the biggest, cheapest wet cell bastard I can fit in under the bonnet of the RR - I think it is about 80 Amphour.

I have a Volt meter couples up to the secondary battery - when it drops to 12 volt from 13.4 I switch on the charge... Nice and easy and very simple. :lol:

Post by **toonfish** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:45 am

kewl on switch in your RR simple on and off or 3 way
?
any diagrams ?
what type of volt meter (obviously permanent?)
as

Post by **David Lovejoy** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:51 am

No diagrams but I can probably draw one - however the only difference on the sytem I use to BeZeRK is that he runs the opps ffed for the solonoid to a system on the vehicle - I run mine to a relayed switch (40amp relay and illuminated switch). The volt meter is a cheap TIM guage that I found on a scrap RR! Hell the solenoid was from an X9000 Superwinch, the Relay is off a Beemer, The switch was in my toolkit...

Post by **toonfish** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:55 am

love it
go the impro

Post by **Bluey** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 9:34 pm

Tonka:

joining both batteries in parallel is really good until something drastic goes wrong and flattens both batteries. excellent for short time setup eg hardcore trail day.

solenoid between the two is better (read more reliable over time) as batteries only connected when solenoid is switched therefore can't flatten both overnight or whatever. connect starter and winch to one, everything else to second. batteries really should be same type (size,age,capacity etc etc) otherwise one will end up be overcharged (different internal resistance) and end up shagged.

smart solenoid is same as above but only switches or connects two batteries when reach certain voltage/time after turn on/both. actually might not be voltage only as might connect both after turn off (only if really healthy battery/low voltage switching point). expensive though

can get smart solenoid performance from normal solenoid by using manual switch to activate, or voltage sensing/time delay circuit built from dick smiths/altronics/jaycar/etc for bugger all. something along these lines my preferred.

deep cycle batteries BTW are just that, designed to be drained to certain low point (read point that would stuff starter battery), charged, drained, charged etc. not really for running lights/radio etc. can do all that with starter battery and are cheaper. deep cycle do work so if you've got, use them, too expensive and limiting for me.

try to position both batteries close together, sometimes hard, depends on vehicle. and as close to biggest battery drain. WINCH. been nice and close makes everything easier, fuses/wiring/and makes it possible to swap things around/disconnect overnight when solenoid shits itself/one battery carkes it. this really shouldn't happen though as long as batteries are similar to start with and everything else working properly eg alternator. who wants more work on side of trail if something does go wrong?

hope this helps

(just read this, sorry about the essay :oops:

)

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