GQ class , new winch challenge class?? updated....

[LOCKEE]

Just like HQ's though we will run out of GQ's.

But what a way to go.

Darren better buy all the wrecks so there will be parts left.

[pootrol]

lockers should be a no go for such a basic class.a GQ is very capable without them so it will just devide the drivers between skill and switch fickers.it just becomes another expense that if u want to stay at the pointy end u have to spend another 5 0dd grand on a truck that is really only worth that much.

[chimpboy]

Maybe rear locker only (allowing lockrights and factory nissan lockers as well), no restriction on brand of front bar, standard length suspension arms only, and allow any standard normally aspirated engine whether it's a TB42, TD42, or even a three litre if someone wants to try it, and whether it's diesel, petrol, or LPG (but not diesel+LPG).

The theory would be that you could just about buy any old GQ, whack some tyres on, and have a go... is that right? And then have some room to beef it up a bit more without spending a fortune...

Hmm, problem with not allowing lockers front and rear is that you'll end up with some undeclared LSDs in the front, and similar. But once you allow lockers front and rear they are basically must-have items you couldn't compete without, so that's $3,000 or so added to the cost of entry straight up.

Oh well, however it goes it's a nice idea to have a bit of an accessible class for people to start off in.

[Ossie]

Top Idea, big thumbs up from me.

Jason

[krimnl]

Maybe rear locker only (allowing lockrights and factory nissan lockers as well), no restriction on brand of front bar, standard length suspension arms only, and allow any standard normally aspirated engine whether it's a TB42, TD42, or even a three litre if someone wants to try it, and whether it's diesel, petrol, or LPG (but not diesel+LPG).

The theory would be that you could just about buy any old GQ, whack some tyres on, and have a go... is that right? And then have some room to beef it up a bit more without spending a fortune...

Hmm, problem with not allowing lockers front and rear is that you'll end up with some undeclared LSDs in the front, and similar. But once you allow lockers front and rear they are basically must-have items you couldn't compete without, so that's $3,000 or so added to the cost of entry straight up.

Oh well, however it goes it's a nice idea to have a bit of an accessible class for people to start off in.

we dont want shit box racing, these cars will be capable and twin diff locks are a must. these will be no different to the cars we raced early on in winch challenges


more comments later after a few more posts

[bj on roids]

...I think we need something like this so the average dude can race and not have to spend an absolute fortune to compete, let alone be competitive.

Cheers, Beretts

Thats what we need more of, something that brings the comps back to driver ability not vechile ability, which will open it up to more peole.

Nick

thats the idea mate, see how he says "GQ Class" we already know there is no "vehicle ability"

[bj on roids]

As Pete said. the reason for no T/D is that you can get big power from them and thats not what we are trying to achieve. maybe a n/a TD42 would be ok , can look at that later on.
as for the suspension arms, this is another thing that will need careful consideration as the idea is to ensure wheel base doesnt alter .
the reason we are looking at being brand specific is that we can use this as bargaining power to get parts a little cheaper but most of all we can get some good sponsorship for the sport. aswell as making sure the cars are all capable and equally competitive.
The reason for GQ's is simple. they are strong and cheap.

i love this part "open to shorties, wagons and utes"

"the idea is to ensure the wheelbase doesn't alter"

does this put shorter or longer vehicles at a distinct advantage/disadvantage?

[bj on roids]

Maybe rear locker only (allowing lockrights and factory nissan lockers as well), no restriction on brand of front bar, standard length suspension arms only, and allow any standard normally aspirated engine whether it's a TB42, TD42, or even a three litre if someone wants to try it, and whether it's diesel, petrol, or LPG (but not diesel+LPG).

The theory would be that you could just about buy any old GQ, whack some tyres on, and have a go... is that right? And then have some room to beef it up a bit more without spending a fortune...

Hmm, problem with not allowing lockers front and rear is that you'll end up with some undeclared LSDs in the front, and similar. But once you allow lockers front and rear they are basically must-have items you couldn't compete without, so that's $3,000 or so added to the cost of entry straight up.

Oh well, however it goes it's a nice idea to have a bit of an accessible class for people to start off in.

we dont want shit box racing, these cars will be capable and twin diff locks are a must. these will be no different to the cars we raced early on in winch challenges


more comments later after a few more posts

what about GU diffs and steering bocks, nobody will know...

wheelbase mods but with the factory laminated arms (i.e. move chassis mounts)

[Ruffy]

I've always been a supporter of 'introductory' classes where expense limitations create a more even playing field.
I'd say maybe look into the T/D thing and EFI but keep them restricted. Standard ECU's only. That's a simple way to limit aftermarket EFI set up's. And with turbo diesels simple limitations like 2.5 inch intake and no intercoolers. No-ones going to bring 200 kw to the party with no intercooler. turbo outlet housing diameter limits. stuff like that.
Just don't make it too complicated. As you mentioned greenie guy's were competiting on standard stuff for years so there's no reason why standard stuff can't be the only things allowed.

Best way to tell is put it to the test Darren. Write up some rules. make them firm and try not to please every one! organise a date, maybe early next year for an event.

[GQ Bear]

Like i stated before, if the engine's relatively stock it should be allowed. If it came out of the Nissan factory fitted then it should be allowed, ie n/a TD42, carby TB42, injected TB42e, injected RB30 and turbo deisel 2.8's. To limit it to carby petrol 4.2's you might as well make it a pre-92 petrol GQ class, thereby limiting vehicle range to 3-4yrs of production only.

Would engine mods be allowed? ie, shaved & ported heads, cams, extractors, elect. ignition on carby's, etc., etc. This could be a good way of getting ppl to think outside the square a bit more with power production; tweaking out a 4.2 instead of just bolting on a turbo.

Anyway, let the TB42e in and i'm a starter . Can anyone supply me a winch as i cooked mine last w/e

[GQ Bear]

Would you be allowed to run Hiclones? And how many would be the limit?




























































sorry, someone had to say it.

[bj on roids]

Like i stated before, if the engine's relatively stock it should be allowed. If it came out of the Nissan factory fitted then it should be allowed, ie n/a TD42, carby TB42, injected TB42e, injected RB30 and turbo deisel 2.8's. To limit it to carby petrol 4.2's you might as well make it a pre-92 petrol GQ class, thereby limiting vehicle range to 3-4yrs of production only.

Would engine mods be allowed? ie, shaved & ported heads, cams, extractors, elect. ignition on carby's, etc., etc. This could be a good way of getting ppl to think outside the square a bit more with power production; tweaking out a 4.2 instead of just bolting on a turbo.

Anyway, let the TB42e in and i'm a starter . Can anyone supply me a winch as i cooked mine last w/e

could you shave the diffs?

[1MadEngineer]

I like the idea of levelling the playing field, but no matter how well you write rules, there will always be gamesmen looking to bend, stretch or cover up where they've broken the rules. The 99% who are willing to play by the rules will always be screwed over by the 1%.

Carby petrol sounds limiting. No LPG? No EFI? How well will GQ carbies work on the angles you're planning to use? Will there be a techno-race for tweaked carbies? Once you allow diesels in (NA or turbo) will the carby vehicles be disadvantaged?

Would it be feasible to limit boost on vehicles? Any turbo vehicle must install blow-off set to X psi? Sends up the cost again...

How about less restriction on the engines, and limiting drivetrains? No lockers, tyre restrictions like only 33" tyres, limited to "Mud Tyres" like BFG Muds, MT/Rs, MT/Zs, STTs etc, but not "Hardcore Tyres" like Simex, Claws, Boggers, Swampers etc.

Firstly - you should be applauded for trying to make an effort to 'rationalise the comp scene' but beware!


as for the 1% i think you will not find it too long untill the rules need tightening!!!!
I for one am also very interested, but i have already thought of sooooo many small things i could do to get a competitive advantage and i am sure i wouldnt be the only one. Modifying the TB42 head, forged pistons, chromo rods and a very modified carby would easily rev to 8000rpm and running 16:1 comp would give me approx 300-340hp. Is it cus i am trying to cheat or cus i have the bits already and the brains to do it in my back shed?? and as BJ said "shaved diffs / chromo axles and custom CV's" and i can punish it soooo much more than anyone else.

Sorry these are just a few small ideas. The GQ concept is good, but a well controlled and scored competition is better. EG there is not much point having a gazillion HP if you dont have to drive at 200mph (lances winch comps promote technical driving). how about adding / or combining some of the "rockcrawling/trials" types scoring and obstacles into the equation. Reversing and Cone penalties force the drivers and navs to think and drive at the highest level. Most basic winch trucks could do some of the XRCC type tracks and then winch over the harder obstacles. It would be awesome to watch as the courses could be very condensed, Great for the Crowds cheering the guys on!!!

[sierrajim]

.........how about adding / or combining some of the "rockcrawling/trials" types scoring and obstacles into the equation. Reversing and Cone penalties force the drivers and navs to think and drive at the highest level. Most basic winch trucks could do some of the XRCC type tracks and then winch over the harder obstacles. It would be awesome to watch as the courses could be very condensed, Great for the Crowds cheering the guys on!!!

Now that's the idea.

This could also be done with DNF times (aka rock crawling) as opposed to fastest time. In most cases this would negate the advantage of high horsepower.

[Alison]

Like i stated before, if the engine's relatively stock it should be allowed. If it came out of the Nissan factory fitted then it should be allowed, ie n/a TD42, carby TB42, injected TB42e, injected RB30 and turbo deisel 2.8's. To limit it to carby petrol 4.2's you might as well make it a pre-92 petrol GQ class, thereby limiting vehicle range to 3-4yrs of production only.

I understand why you wold like to have it as 'carby class' only as such, but you would need to take into consideration the other engine options available from the factory for GQ's.

It would be good to get a copy of the rules of HQ Racing and see what restrictions they have.

[bru21]

i recon trucks should be standard with say 33's. you can have the same fun in a standard rig, then everyone can race for $3500 odd. the more mods you have the more illegal, worse insurance, higher costs, more dangerous obsticles etc...

i would love to see standards race through crusier canyon for example.

bit of carnage good for the crowd too.

And to those that bend the rules, a ban for 12mths, and they know they cheated.

i recon rules like

standard as factory, ome or similar shocks in standard or +2" only
33 only mud terrain like bfg, cooper etc not extreme mud like claws,
no lockers unles factory type (with no guard over actuator) standard lsd - turn on gravel to see if shimmed
no additional lighting, no winches, etc
basic ccda cage/ cargo barrier

thats my 2c

I think its a great idea

cheers bru

[sierrajim]

i recon trucks should be standard with say 33's. you can have the same fun in a standard rig, then everyone can race for $3500 odd. the more mods you have the more illegal, worse insurance, higher costs, more dangerous obsticles etc...

i would love to see standards race through crusier canyon for example.

bit of carnage good for the crowd too.

And to those that bend the rules, a ban for 12mths, and they know they cheated.

i recon rules like

standard as factory, ome or similar shocks in standard or +2" only
33 only mud terrain like bfg, cooper etc not extreme mud like claws,
no lockers unles factory type (with no guard over actuator) standard lsd - turn on gravel to see if shimmed
no additional lighting, no winches, etc
basic ccda cage/ cargo barrier

thats my 2c

I think its a great idea

cheers bru

I think the aim is to have capable vehicles being driven, not a smash and bash derby.

A car that is too standard will generally result in the driver bashing his/her way through a course.

[chpd 80]

Man great idea. Dont get too stressed with getting the formula
perfect from the start, like V8 supercars you can bring
in changes to rules as they become problems.

Kinda be a shame to limit it to GQ's only, at least allow a GQ/80
series comp. Cruisers will always be outnumbered by GQ's thats just
the way it is, I went on a trip last weekend with "tuff mav"
"GQ Bear" and another patrol, we all had a ball around Gembrook,
Hanging crap on the patrols especially when I drove a hill they wiched
(sorry couldnt resist hahaha)

As far as limits to vehicles go, you could limit it to the type of comp
vehicles getting around 5 or 6 years ago no probs cause thats what
most of us have nowdays. Duel lockers, 35's, after market turbo, etc etc, lets face it if you want to be competitive in Outback Challenge/
Cliffhanger these days you'll be looking at Kings/Racerunners/rear radiators/ $15,000/ +engines/24v high mounts etc etc etc and the like that goes with that.
Keep it simple but dont rule too much out, you want it to be exciting.

Anyway that my 1.5 cents worth,
Cheers.

[backyard_racer]

fantatastic idea. i for one would build a truck to these rules and race with mates.

luke






what about shorty 40's on coils???

[pootrol]

I like the idea of levelling the playing field, but no matter how well you write rules, there will always be gamesmen looking to bend, stretch or cover up where they've broken the rules. The 99% who are willing to play by the rules will always be screwed over by the 1%.

Carby petrol sounds limiting. No LPG? No EFI? How well will GQ carbies work on the angles you're planning to use? Will there be a techno-race for tweaked carbies? Once you allow diesels in (NA or turbo) will the carby vehicles be disadvantaged?

Would it be feasible to limit boost on vehicles? Any turbo vehicle must install blow-off set to X psi? Sends up the cost again...

How about less restriction on the engines, and limiting drivetrains? No lockers, tyre restrictions like only 33" tyres, limited to "Mud Tyres" like BFG Muds, MT/Rs, MT/Zs, STTs etc, but not "Hardcore Tyres" like Simex, Claws, Boggers, Swampers etc.

Firstly - you should be applauded for trying to make an effort to 'rationalise the comp scene' but beware!


as for the 1% i think you will not find it too long untill the rules need tightening!!!!
I for one am also very interested, but i have already thought of sooooo many small things i could do to get a competitive advantage and i am sure i wouldnt be the only one. Modifying the TB42 head, forged pistons, chromo rods and a very modified carby would easily rev to 8000rpm and running 16:1 comp would give me approx 300-340hp. Is it cus i am trying to cheat or cus i have the bits already and the brains to do it in my back shed?? and as BJ said "shaved diffs / chromo axles and custom CV's" and i can punish it soooo much more than anyone else.

Sorry these are just a few small ideas. The GQ concept is good, but a well controlled and scored competition is better. EG there is not much point having a gazillion HP if you dont have to drive at 200mph (lances winch comps promote technical driving). how about adding / or combining some of the "rockcrawling/trials" types scoring and obstacles into the equation. Reversing and Cone penalties force the drivers and navs to think and drive at the highest level. Most basic winch trucks could do some of the XRCC type tracks and then winch over the harder obstacles. It would be awesome to watch as the courses could be very condensed, Great for the Crowds cheering the guys on!!!

i think there is the great divide still here.no shit box racing as quoted saying to have a chance of contending you need a roll cage,twin locks,35s winch etc the only bit seperating these from the big boys is the class mentioned here needs floor mats and fluffy dice.you can carry a trailer full of parts to go hard and finish so dollar wise its going to be up there.the above blokes where on the right track for the normal person with a desire to compete in this form of racing with out huge outlays.slow tight/technichal courses where hp cant win the day awarding penalty points for hitting bunting,witches hats,having to winch out etc.like i said there is 2 thoughts actually on this subject the ones that want the buy a truck and enter sort of racing might need to get together and sort something out them selves and actually open it up to other vehicles as well keeping a limit of 33s no locks 2"susp,2"body etc

[GQ Bear]

I went on a trip last weekend with "tuff mav"
"GQ Bear" and another patrol, we all had a ball around Gembrook,
Hanging crap on the patrols especially when I drove a hill they wiched
(sorry couldnt resist hahaha)

Settle down. I think you'll find me and mick drove that hill after my winch blew up

[danaz]

Sounds like a great idea, I'd be interested if NA TD42's were allowed

[killalux]

i think i also agree with making it more technical, slow the drivers down and make them think. No matter what rules you set for vehicle mod's, the guy with more money will have the advantage of being able to drive harder cause he can afford to fix it.

like mentioned there is always the unseen mods the make an advantage, ie heavy duty cv's and axles, re wound winch motors and aternators, engine mods. this sort of stuff ya can't really check at the start of the comp.
as for suspension arms maybe limit it to one particular brand, and possibly set up a group buy to ensure they are all the same.
Also would suggest standard diff ratio's, just to cut cost a bit. i know guys that run 35's and stock gears without to many issuses.

i understand why you want to limit brands for winches, suspnsion etc, because of the sponsorship, would be able to get the stuff cheaper. IE use whoever can offer the best price for there components.

Also is the 6 point cage necassary, maybe a 4 point in wagons and a good rollbar on the tray for utes. just to cut cost's and techniclly a 6 point cage isn't gonna be legal if you read through the draft national standard for vehicle modification.

Also i can't see any competitive edge of a cut down extra cab or dual cab patrol over a standard ute or wagon.
Possibly limit to wagon's only to keep the competition closer??

just a few thoughts, but i do think this would be a great sport and produce some really close racing, there are too many guys that spend sh*t loads of dollars just to be at the top.

just my 2c worth

[TEAMRPM]

Krimnls got the right idea!


I agree and id be in for sure. it would be nice to be able to get involved without cutting the crap out of our panels etc. it should bring out some interesting driving skills.


keep us posted with any progress.

[xenith]

mate i would b in but i have a TD42 i know u guys are scared of all the power we have but i think u need to think of all GQ's

[chpd 80]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

chpd 80 wrote:
[I went on a trip last weekend with "tuff mav"
"GQ Bear" and another patrol, we all had a ball around Gembrook,
Hanging crap on the patrols especially when I drove a hill they wiched
(sorry couldnt resist hahaha[/list])]

[Settle down. I think you'll

find me and mick drove that hill after my winch blew up] [/list]

Yeah sorry GQ Bear (forgot you did eventually drive it) you did a great drive after your winch broke, Maybe I cleared the sloppy stuff away
Just kidding

Back to the subject:
Point is, there's not a lot of guys with a 2" lift, 33's, no lockers etc etc that
would be prepared to race their truck, most guys prepared to cage up and
race their truck will already have 35's, lockers, turbo etc.
what are we going to do pull out our lockers? take off our turboes, tyres just for that event??
Comps like Ateco/OBC/Vic Winch etc are a great place to go and drool
over some comp rigs and get some ideas that on a smaller scale can be
done at home in the shed.
Wouldnt be real interesting watching trucks stock standard, the only interesting thing then would be watching how much damage they do!!

Anyway most peoples opinions will come from what they already drive,
If I drove a GQ with no turbo, 2" lift, no lockers then I would probably think it was a great idea, where do I sign up? But unfortunately I would be in the minority!

[krimnl]

I have updated the first post . i think for the better

the idea isnt to crash & bash or have cars that are not capable. i dont want to race one of those , wheres the fun in that??
we want capable cars that look like a car, not buggies.

another point, we dont want to change the current comps. or current comp rules. just add a class to compete in them. so stages would remain what they are now.

[Ruffy]

There's definitely an idea here that needs attention. There are many simple ways to keep the competition competitive and stop people from 'outgrowing' the class by means of engine enhancements and chromo shafts etc..
We started a similar idea with our off road racing and ran it quite succesfully with some minor 'tweaking' along the way.
stick with it Darren.
Organise a bit of a round table discussion with some likely candidates and current competitors and put some rules on paper.
PM sent

[chpd 80]

How good would it be for spectators (and the industry for that matter) to see well built capable trucks competing, knowing that they can
definately afford to build and race something like what their looking at?

Seeing that you dont have to spend $80,000 + to go and compete and be competitive will be unique compared to trying to be competitive nowdays.

Just dont limit it to one type of vehicle!!!!!

Great concept Krimnl

[Mayhem Mat]

sounds to me that what you would like to do for winch comp's is what jeep speed did for offroad racing in the U.S
top stuff and push on with it
this web might be worth a look for how they did there rules on car mods
http://www.jeepspeed.com/rules/rules.html