Keen to learn to weld, any advice?

[Ezookiel]

I want to buy a welder, and start to learn to weld.
All the threads on rocksliders and the like have me very interested, not to mention the possibly ability to repair something that breaks when hundreds of Kms from town.
I work weird shifts, so tech probably isn't an option.
What welder to start with, and where to learn?
I tend to buy stuff when learning that will last me beyond when I've learned, as I'd rather buy good to begin with than have to buy twice. So advice based on what welder would do for both beginner and then slightly more advanced as I progress would be appreciated.
And the sort of welding I envisage will be stuff like sliders, rear bars, etc. And yes I do realise it will be a long while before I'm up to that standard, but I like to dream.

[v840]

I started of with a 30yr old arc welder, some rods and some 6mm sheet steel and basically just did bead after bead over the sheet. After a while you get a feel for it and your beads will be more uniform and stronger.

Its also a good idea to buy a book on welding, it can tell more about settings, what a bead should look like, techniques stitching etc. etc.

Once you've mastered the arc, you can move on to mig and the progression is heaps easy. Basically, if you can arc weld well, you can mig weld well, as the same techniques are used but you dont have to worry about slag and striking the arc which can be a PITA. Welding stuff like sliders, bars etc can be handled by and arc no worries but thinner stuff like panels will need a mig.

Most importantly PRACTICE!!!!!!! this is the most important!

[Ezookiel]

Thanks for the reply,
Practice was my main intention as a learning tool, along with books and dvd's or the like, and some tips and techniques from relatives of my wife, who are apparently phenomenally good welders and do it as a career.

Can you start with mig or do you have to start with arc and work up?

[fullmetaljacket]

I'd bite the bullet and buy a mig straight off, they are easyer to learn with and makes a crappy weld look half profesional. I have a UNI MIG pro craft 210A and it is perfect for most situations

[philhod]

Yep buy a GAS MIG.

If you buy an ARC first off you'll be kicking yourself later on. So much easier to use especially if you will be welding thin stuff.

Sounds like you need at least a 200+ Amp.

[bastard]

I started of with a 30yr old arc welder, some rods and some 6mm sheet steel and basically just did bead after bead over the sheet. After a while you get a feel for it and your beads will be more uniform and stronger.

Its also a good idea to buy a book on welding, it can tell more about settings, what a bead should look like, techniques stitching etc. etc.

Once you've mastered the arc, you can move on to mig and the progression is heaps easy. Basically, if you can arc weld well, you can mig weld well, as the same techniques are used but you dont have to worry about slag and striking the arc which can be a PITA. Welding stuff like sliders, bars etc can be handled by and arc no worries but thinner stuff like panels will need a mig.What this guy said is spot on,there is no skill in using a mig welder what so ever,learn to weld with a stick and youll be the best mig welder in town,plus you wont take your mig to the bush with you.

Most importantly PRACTICE!!!!!!! this is the most important!

[bastard]

I messed that last bit up but if you read through it youll get my drift.

[tommyk]

I starting welding at 13 and always used AC arc welders, and since i got my mig i dont think i'll ever go back lol

[shakes]

Hire oxy and acet bottles and buy a kit.

It is slow and takes a little longer to learn BUT you learn how to "see" your weld. then....grab an old arc welder from trading post/garage sale whatever and learn how to run a nice bead with that.

then buy a TIG

Any schmuck can lay down a "neat" looking weld with a mig after a few runs, it's very easy to call yourself a good welder when you own a mig, but for learning it is extremely hard to spot a good weld... Easy to lay down a pretty one but hard to see if it's actually a good weld.

Go do a couple of basic courses at a tafe, money well spent.

Simon

[Ruggers]

i just got a migomag 215 we use them at work and they are great was going to get the 260 but for the price difference and what i plan to weld i cant see me needing the bigger weld, also try to get a mig with a euro connection that way you can get a sleve put in your hose and can weld aluminum with it. tig sare good but i dont think are good to learn with but if you can oxy and mig then you can tig as i reckon its a bit of both but to get a decent tig your talking big dollars,

[v840]

Any schmuck can lay down a "neat" looking weld with a mig after a few runs, it's very easy to call yourself a good welder when you own a mig, but for learning it is extremely hard to spot a good weld... Easy to lay down a pretty one but hard to see if it's actually a good weld.

This basically why I was advising to start with an arc welder. Its a bit harder to learn and takes a bit more skill to get right but once you are proficient and ready to move on to mig welders you can be fairly comfident that your mig welds will be of good quality staright off the bat.

If possible, have a go with a mig, half an hour of practice will have you laying beads that look like bubs'. Trust me though, they are NOT the same.

Id really like to look into tig welding but my knowledge of them is zero so Ill be sticking with mig for now.

[Emo]

I've just started myself. I've got both an arc and a gasless MIG. I got told to learn how to use the arc properly first and then switch over to the MIG, that it'll make you a better welder. I'm currently building a bird cage stand out of angle. My welds look pretty ugly but they do the job. The hardest thing I've found so far, is actually getting penetration on both pieces of steel that I'm welding. I just need to practise more.

[Emo]

Also, get yourself a decent auto darkening helmet

[v840]

Also, get yourself a decent auto darkening helmet

X2 forgot to mention that.

[Emo]

I've just chucked my little CIGWELD gasless MIG in the for sale section if you're interested.

[Shorti]

I'd bite the bullet and buy a mig straight off, they are easyer to learn with and makes a crappy weld look half profesional.

I don't want sound like a jerk, but isn't that the exact reason why one should learn with an arc welder?

[zagan]

You want welds like this.

[Ezookiel]

TAFE would be almost impossible, I work any and every day of the week, and any time including nights. I rarely have the same day or time of day available more than once a month.
The autodarkening welding mask was going to be a must whichever version of welding I take up!!

[zagan]

TAFE would be almost impossible, I work any and every day of the week, and any time including nights. I rarely have the same day or time of day available more than once a month.
The autodarkening welding mask was going to be a must whichever version of welding I take up!!

TAFE can be done at night but it takes 2 years where as during the day it can be 6 months to a year.

You can get away without using an auto darking helmet, just get a $20 flip helmet and down the track you can get a auto darking filter for the flip helmet these cost around $200.

a decent auto darking helmet will cost around $300 and the viewing glass will be $5 to $10 for an outer and $5 for the inner.

I got an $800 speediglas 9000X series helmet it's great has battery and sola, it's the quickest auto darking helmet out of the lot, 0.00001 of a second it's in the millionths of a second to go dark you don't even see a change it just happens.

If you buy the cheaper autodarking helmets they'll change slower and you can still get arc burn on your eyes, so that's pretty much what your looking for in an autodarking helmet the change to dark times.


Speediglas start at $400+ most only have the battery this will last about 2 years with every day 8 hours use.

Optral is mainly sola, with it's $900 helmets have the battery power as well.

The Optral and the Speediglas have air filter add-ons the speediglas is $1200 when I priced it up should be cheaper now, can also do compressed air filter add-ons as well.

These simply flow clean air at X rate across your face, nice in the summer.

I've had my speediglas for about 2 1/2 years now it was the top of the line still is as only 1 new helmet has come out which is higher.

they are great when tacking lots of stuff up but if your not tacking lots of stuff then I wouldn't fuss about it the flip up will be way cheaper for glass than any autodarking helmet out there.

Though you can push old dirty glass a bit further with cutting polish rub some on and it helps to cut some of the splatter burns off the glass surface making it easier to see through, don't use thinners or anything like that as it will simply frost up and be usless.

If you do get a sola autodarking helmet try to get a place where the sun will shine other wise they don't work for the few hours then slowly start autodarking, they need to charge up first, other wise simply remember to close eyes as you tack as this will help to charge up quicker as the welding arc is basicly pure UVC light.

Get good proper welding gloves you don't want to get your skin burnt too bad, and yes you will get burns as you learn not to touch 3000C metal start after welding it

[fullmetaljacket]

I'd bite the bullet and buy a mig straight off, they are easyer to learn with and makes a crappy weld look half profesional.

I don't want sound like a jerk, but isn't that the exact reason why one should learn with an arc welder?

yea you sound like a jerk.....just joking

what I was trying to get at was learning with a mig is easier to see penitration, your weld line etc, and welds look pretty (how many people who learned with a arc got very frustrated with the look of their welds, to the point that you wanted to give it away?)

in his first post he stated that he wanted to get something that would last him, in this case a mig would be the way to go.

Having said that "pretty" is not the aim practice is everything, and you wouldent do a axle cut and turn as your first weld.

and I'd go a bronze lens on the mask, they are much better than the green ones

cheers

[shakes]

what I was trying to get at was learning with a mig is easier to see penitration, your weld line etc, and welds look pretty (how many people who learned with a arc got very frustrated with the look of their welds, to the point that you wanted to give it away?)

a nice looking arc bead is almost garuntee'd to have good peno nice depth/width/height no undercut etc.

With but the pretty weld that a mig puts out makes it alot harder to see those things and more to the untrained eye. yes you do get frustrated but by laying down run after run after run after run you also get more stick control learn to see the burn better and a whole host of other things that unless you have an expert watchin your every move you wont get with a mig.

Simon

[tommyk]

auto darkening helmets dont cost that much, i bought mine for 70 bucks from tradetools, it may be cheap but it does the job!

[ludacris]

If you do not have much patience go with the mig. Dont buy a stick as it will just sit in the shed once you do upgrade to a mig.

Definatly buy a basic book on how to weld as there is a lot involved in getting good welds.

LudaCris

[v840]

This is one of the best sites Ive seen for welding basics. Its for mig but apart from striking the arc (which in itself is a skill) the principles are fundamentally the same.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/learning-mig.htm

[Steve F]

I learn't on a stick and have never used anything else. As already said if it looks good on a stick it typically is. Practice practie practice is all it takes.

I've made front and rear bars along with sliders with the stick no problems.

Cheers
Steve

[zagan]

auto darkening helmets dont cost that much, i bought mine for 70 bucks from tradetools, it may be cheap but it does the job!

lol do 500 tacks with it in a day see how your eyes feel

[V8Patrol]

Oxy accet welding is a thing of the past unfortunately, these days very few people can do it with any degree of quality or skill. There are just 2 of us at my work that can do it with any confidence and even then my skills at this are failing due to the fact that we just dont have the time to weld in this way any more.
I still however do a lot of bronzing and silversolder work ( probably one or two jobs a week ) which is about all thats keeping my 'hand' in it" so to speak.

Arc welding is great and I've said it before and so I beter say it again.....
Apprentice arc welders are far better skilled welders in the long run, there make for even better welders when it comes to migs aswell. My number 1 apprentice has been on the mig now for a few months after not being allowed near it for his first 18months, his welds are making a couple of the qualified welders jobs look rough in comparision.

With arc you'll get a better understanding of how it all flows, you'll develope a far steadier hand, you understand penetration much better...... the reasons for this is that you can 'see' it happening as your welding.

With a mig its basically point and pull the trigger, you wont see the weld for whats really happening, the speed factor simply means that your ability to see the penetration wont be there even tho the weld may appear to be fine on the surface.
Its much like getting a driver licence and being handed the keys to a Lamborgini, sure you "look kewl" but you'll never handle it the way it should be driven...... the end result may be very ugly !

My best advice.............

1/ start off with an arc, they dont cost much and are solid old machines that will out live you !
One of my arc's was made in 1960 and is still as good as the day it was made !! the other was made in 1972 and has been modified a bit and to date has only ever had one breakdown ( melted the top cover ).
My mig however has broken down a dozen odd times, burntout diodes, stuffed hand-piece, several 'gang switches', faulty regs....... & the list will continue to grow no-doubt.
Once you have developed a good degree of skill levels then look at a mig, the transfer across to the mig from arc will be an easy one and you'll produce welds that are much better than ya mates that went straight to migs.

2/ find someone that can weld and get them to get you started, the basics can be taught in an hour and from there its practice practice practice.


3/ & even more practice

Kingy

[shakes]

V8Patrol's post

[Patroler]

Yep, its always handy to have an arc and be able to use it, i mostly use tig, but like mig welding the surfaces should be clean of rust, paint, grease to do a good job, an arc welder can work on surfaces which would make a tig/mig baulk and still get a good strong weld.

Maybe pick up a second hand arc, they aren't that dear, and as stated above there isn't a lot to go wrong with them, i think the peerless 180 amp with the copper coils (heavy & reliable) is about 400 new?