Volvo C303 portals under a surf

[Clown Boy]

The dedicated ones among you can read this thread then discuss here:

http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtop ... sc&start=0

After the first couple of pages I start talking about the SAS and rear swap I want to do in 2 years. (since putting the V8 in I need a break from truck mods to upgrade my wife's car).

The long and short is, we are discussing putting portals under my truck instead of doing standard beam SAS in front and strengthening the rear.

I want you opinions. The issues as they stand are:
1 - the diff ratios preventing me from driving highway speeds (change from 4.11 ratio to 5.99ratio)
2 - track width issues
3 - difficulty\cost stuff.

Started with a discussion on Unimog diffs but the Volvos are my pick now due to track width and ratio (the unimogs are 7.5ish diff ratio). The rest iof the reasoning is on the above thread.

Let me know your thoughts.

[Clown Boy]

hint - the poll is for fun.

You actually need to leave comments if you wanna be helpful.

[CWBYUP]

hint - the poll is for fun.

You actually need to leave comments if you wanna be helpful.

I'm not that helpful but portals under a Surf would be

I reakon it will rock if you do it, But theres a lot of money tied up just in the diffs.

You could go GU narrowed or 60s diffs fitted with locker for just over the price of the portals alone.

I read through your post on overlander, Other than the coolness factor what are the big reasons for going portals ?

Nick

[Clown Boy]

I read through your post on overlander, Other than the coolness factor what are the big reasons for going portals ?

In for a penny ...... something about a pound

When I did the V8 conversion I could have saved money by putting in a Toyo 3L, 5L or commodore 6 cyl, etc. But if I was going to spend $$ then I wanted something I was going to enjoy and would be really cool. So I put in the Lexus.

In doing my axles I had considered 60 series axles (although apparently I will have trouble with the rear pumpkin) and I have considered the strengthened hilux beam axles. But if I am going to spend $7k - $10k why not go to $12k or so on portals?

If it turns out I will not get registered or like the price is going to be $20k then I am back to beam axles.

[grimbo]

If it turns out I will not get registered or like the price is going to be $20k then I am back to beam axles.

Are you sure you can even get the SAS registered seeing as you are in QLD. I was under the impression that you would be hard pressed getting any major mods legal there. I reckon investigate your options with the relevant authorities before committing any $$$

[leehamescort]

One problem I see with the portals ona SAS'd vehicle is the height.

One issue with SASing an IFS vehicle is the resulted minimum height of the vehicle is quite tall as the IFS chassis does not allow for upward diff travel unless the vehicle is lifted fairly high (the chassis doesnt step up over the diff for clearance), If you go portals you not only have the lift from the SAS but the portal lift, you will end up with a very, very tall vehicle.

Might be worth doing some investigating on how low you would be able to build it and keep it usable.

Just a thought.

[Clown Boy]

Are you sure you can even get the SAS registered seeing as you are in QLD. I was under the impression that you would be hard pressed getting any major mods legal there. I reckon investigate your options with the relevant authorities before committing any $$$

In answer to the first part, yes you can register SAS vehicles here.

The requirements at present include almost 0 change to track width but this is changing in the new federal regulations for vehicle modifications. Under the new rules the trackwidth can increase by 50mm.

This means I could not go with 80 series axles, I am unsure if they fit in with the new rule. However the Volvo portals come in about 10mm under the new rule.

The other pertinant regulation involves height. The current regs are 2" suspension and 2" body but the new regs are 6" total. So with the portals giving me 5" and my current 2" body lift (I can drop by about 1" and still clear the engine) I am pushing the barrier. I will need to keep suspension low and use 31" tyres for registration.

Based on all of this, both the Volvo portals and beam axles are registerable options. However it goes without saying that my 'best friend' will be an engineer before I spend dollar 1. Not "best friend" as in willing to break rules but a "best friend" as in he will know exactly what I am doing and approve before I spend money.

[Clown Boy]

One issue with SASing an IFS vehicle is the resulted minimum height of the vehicle is quite tall as the IFS chassis does not allow for upward diff travel unless the vehicle is lifted fairly high (the chassis doesnt step up over the diff for clearance), If you go portals you not only have the lift from the SAS but the portal lift, you will end up with a very, very tall vehicle.

Here is a point I didn't consider (and the reason why I want to find a fabricator to talk to sooner rather than later - I don't know this stuff).

I was working on 5" lift from portals, 1-2" body (2" at present) giving me 6" lift. This is acceptable under the coming federal regulations.

My 5" value may be off as that comes from people who are probably talking about going from beam to portal beam - not IFS. I might need more lift which goes back to making it an illegal mod.

[86MUD]

read this...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=526562

or

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306807

awesome build ups of mog axled 4 runners...

cheers
Andrew

[Gwagensteve]

Whilst these are both interesting build ups, I don't think they are strictly speaking relevant as they are both miles from what coudl be registered. (and are mog diffs anyway)

Volvo diffs are a good basis for what you want to do, but they are not without some complications. To get approval, you will need to disc convert at least the front end. This has been done before, but the engineer will want to be VERY involved in how this is done and how well it ends up working.

As for overall height, you are basing your calculations on running the same suspension height that you have now. personally, I would be running the bare minimum of compression travel to keep the height sensible. this might/will create clearance problems around the sump/chassis in the front.

Bear in mind too that if you cert on small tyres you will have whacky gearing and speedo error which will have to be corrected.

I think if it was me I woudl just put a landcruiser front diff in it and call it good. Portals are cool, but getting the car to work properly as an engineered, registered car will be a massive headache.

I know a couple of Land rovers have been engineered in Melbourne with Volvo's on them but the conversion is quite straighforward for a land rover as track width and suspension design is already compatible with the portals.

Steve.

[Clown Boy]

I think if it was me I woudl just put a landcruiser front diff in it and call it good. Portals are cool, but getting the car to work properly as an engineered, registered car will be a massive headache.

I am starting to lean this way as some of the most informative posts recommend the same thing. The cost is climbing closer to 20k anyway.

Does anyone know the track width of the 80 series axles?

I know I could not use them now but the coming federal regs allow more track width increase so want to figure out if they will be allowable in the future.

[Wooders]

. To get approval, you will need to disc convert at least the front end. ...

Shouldn't really.
The drums would have been prefectly fine stopping a larger heavier vehicle so should not be a problem either practically nor from an engineering perspective.
Infact in my plans with mogs the engineer had more of an issue if I swapped to discs because of the change in track.....

[Clown Boy]

I cannot change the disc because of the track.

I know the drums would be sufficient stoppage but engineers may have an issue since I currently have disc front.

I am considering a set of 60 series diffs at the moment though.

[mud4b]

I know I could not use them now but the coming federal regs allow more track width increase so want to figure out if they will be allowable in the future.

another hiccup.... do you know 100% that these laws are coming?

i know people who follow it (as in me) have been waiting for years and years and it only seems to get worse, not better... just something to look out for..

[N*A*M]

the 5.99 ratio would be rare as fark too. you'd be most likely ending up with the slow ratio. don't forget to factor in the cost of rebuilding the axles. cv boots have to come from europe too. i can search around for my old engineering proposal document if you like.

[Pegboy2000]

if it's gonna end up being 20K, just buy a trailer and buggy, an use the v8 surf for a tow rig.

you'll end up with a more capable offroad vehicle, and a nicer road car

my 2c

[Clown Boy]

At this stage I have made up my mind - finally.

Back to a version of the original plan.

I am putting in a rear locker in the next month or so.

When I do my SAS I will:
Use a hilux or bundera (similar) axle
Put an air locker in it
Use 4.88 gears
Hardened drivelines\CVs from the states

Should get it all in and done for $7k - $8k

[Gwagensteve]

Sounds good.

Have a look at 70 series front ends. They should be not more than 1.5" wider than your existing rear and run basically the same high pinion front diff setup as bundera, but should be easier to find.

Just an idea.

Steve.

[Clown Boy]

with a set of spacers on the rear. Sounds good to me.

[RUFF]

Sounds good.

Have a look at 70 series front ends. They should be not more than 1.5" wider than your existing rear and run basically the same high pinion front diff setup as bundera, but should be easier to find.

Just an idea.

Steve.

70 series are the same width as solid axle hiluxs. A Bundera is a 70 series.

[Gwagensteve]

Yes I was aware of that a bundy is a 70, but all bundies from 85 on had hilux style centres and other 70's only went to the smaller centres in 1991 when the 1HZ came out.

I was not aware that hilux and 70 are the same width, I thought 70 is a little wider.

Obviously there will be many more leaf (and maybe even coil) 70 series front ends around than bundy.

That wousl lead me to suggest that if a full ink front end was planned, a post 1991 70 ute/troopy would be fine. If a radius arm set up was planned then a bundy or coil troopy/ute (78?) front end would be ideal

I know you know this stuff Ruff, I am posting for the sake of the thread.
Steve.

[Clown Boy]

Now that I am going with the more 'hum drum' solution (standard beam axle front with the strengthened drive shafts, cv joints, etc and ARB air lockers)

would the front diff from this pair do the job?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0143206720

[DaveS3]

I know a couple of Land rovers have been engineered in Melbourne with Volvo's on them but the conversion is quite straighforward for a land rover as track width and suspension design is already compatible with the portals.

Steve.

It's kind of straight forward but there are a LOT of $$$ involved and alot more behind the engineering that most people think.
Suspension with these cars is completley different from the leafed c303's.

A lot went into comparing bearings/brakes/hubs and suspension mods ect to be the same to allow the conversion.

Not nearly as simple when moving to a different make.
The 303's had many components similar if not the same as the S3LR and hence similar to 110's as you probably know.

Anyway, point is that although cars are engineered with them it is not nearly as simple with another make.

Cheers
Dave.