Drook's Dead - Finding The Problem

[MrsForby]

OK, Had a little problem for a while with my 85 Drover.

Yes it's long-winded. Better to get all the info out in one post.

Driving along, car splutters a little, drops speed, then picks up again. Happened last week but it stopped and then wouldn't start again. Got it started 15 mins later, drove it home, it was fine. Hiccupped again on friday but picked up again. I was told by other zook drivers to check the coil.

So Saturday Mark and I decided to put my new seats in, tidy the car up a bit and try to find the problem I was having. (Basically i got sick of being told "There's nothing wrong with the car... you know... the answer you give your missus when she tells you there's something wrong with it and you don't believe her) So we drive down to Narellan (20 mins away) and on the way, the car does it. We pull over, let the car sit abit, then it starts again no dramas. Get off the bypass, and it basically bunny hops down the street at 60km. Roll down the hill, clutch start it and limp it to the corner. Mark pushes it around the corner, we let it sit, and ti starts again. Cruises into town without any dramas. Fill up with fuel, then it drives 30k home without any dramas.

Sunday, we go to Pep's and get a new distributor cap and rotor button, new coil, new leads and new fuel filter. Change all of these, and the car starts and runs without a problem.

Start it this morning to go to work, bit hard to start, actually won't stay running. I ring Mark, he says there's air in the fuel line, keep trying it will clear. So it clears and runs fine.

Get about 15k down the road and the car starts bunny hopping, I lose speed, and the engine dies. I pull over, lift the bonnet, lead # 4 is off. No worries, put it back on, try to start car.....

It kicks over, but there's no spark. There's no straining noise, as though battery is flat, it's not spluttering as though it's trying to start but can't quite. I couldn't smell fuel near the engine, and neither could Mamma Bear, even when it should have been flooded.

Starved of fuel? It's got a new filter in it.

We've got no idea what the problem is, any ideas? When we figure it out I will post it up so it's here.

Oh, and if you drive down the main drag of Menangle today, please wave at my poor boy on the side of the road. I'm sure he's lonely.

Sorry it's long-winded.....

[muppet_man67]

its possible that your carby has some crud in it or even a faulty solenoid either on the choke or idle etc. what you have replaced given that it is all installed right should nearly cover it. Are you sure that all the leads are on the right cylinders? Its an easy mistake to make. I have done it before.

[Gwagensteve]

I vote fuel pump.

I had a similar problem in my 1.0 litre. You will still smell fuel when you are trying to start- fuel pump would run the car perfectly on the flat but not on steep hills.

Check to make sure that thethe fuel lines are in good nick. A small creack sround a fuel will cause an air leak and result in this kind of problem. (went through this in a 1.3 too) even if it diesn;t show up as a fuel leak (remember the pump is sucking so up near the fuel pump there won't be a fuel leak when parked, only an air leak when running.

Filling the tank will increase the "head" and reduce the problem.

Give it a go.

Steve.

[BenT]

Is it pretty cold where you are at the moment?

If so it could be carb icing. That will show up after you cruise at constant speed at part throttle for a while as the water vapour in the incoming air freezes when the air cools when passing through the carb venturi.

Carb icing goes like this:

Step 1: The ice builds up till the carb is nearly blocked and the engine will stall.

Step 2: You stop and scratch your head and poke around the engine.

Step 3: Meanwhile, heat from the engine soaks through the manifold and melts the ice.

Step 4: After finding nothing you try to start the car, and WTF? it goes!

Step 5: Drive off, and 10-15 minutes later, goto step 1.

Is the pipe hooked up that goes from the airbox to the exhaust manifold? This is to draw in warm air in winter to prevent icing. I can't remember what a stock airbox looks like, but it may have a little flap that needs changing over to switch to warm air.

Ben

[MrsForby]

I vote fuel pump.

I had a similar problem in my 1.0 litre. You will still smell fuel when you are trying to start- fuel pump would run the car perfectly on the flat but not on steep hills.

Problem has not happened on any type of road. Downhill, flat, uphill, it's happened on all. There is no smell of fuel.

Check to make sure that thethe fuel lines are in good nick. A small creack sround a fuel will cause an air leak and result in this kind of problem. (went through this in a 1.3 too) even if it diesn;t show up as a fuel leak (remember the pump is sucking so up near the fuel pump there won't be a fuel leak when parked, only an air leak when running.

Filling the tank will increase the "head" and reduce the problem.

The car has done it when the tank has been at different levels eg full, half and quarter. The tank is currently 3 1/4's full. I will look into this though.

Give it a go.

Steve.

its possible that your carby has some crud in it or even a faulty solenoid either on the choke or idle etc. what you have replaced given that it is all installed right should nearly cover it. Are you sure that all the leads are on the right cylinders? Its an easy mistake to make. I have done it before.

I'll check the carby. Leads are definitely on the right Cylinders. I double checked that when I found number 4 off this morning.

Thanks guys, keep the ideas coming. I just want my baby back on the road, not in some ditch!!!

[vk5hks]

Hi,

Check your PCV valves and carby vacuum things (if you still have them )

Sounds like fuel, my car was doing the same, i changed the fuel filter and was all good.

What about the fuel return?

Sounds like carby if it is taking time, check the choke and flap?

Just ideas?

[j-top paj]

have you checked the fuel pump?
its a 1.3 yeh?

[smileysmoke]

did you replace your plugs? you dont the rest i would do those at the same time.. also you can check if its running rich..
my zook had an issue like this a while back and i replaced teh fuel pump.. all sweet.
then started happening again.. then stopped totally. an engine mount had busted and the movement caused the rotor button to hit the side of the dizzy and shatter :|..

[ronoor]

a mate just had the same problem it was carby freeze , a blocked hose to the carby .cheers ron

[St Jimmy]

standerd carbys are crap thats your problem same thing happend to mine put a small weber on it and check the oil for metal might have to re build it that helped mine

[JrZook]

I vote fuel pump.

I had a similar problem in my 1.0 litre. You will still smell fuel when you are trying to start- fuel pump would run the car perfectly on the flat but not on steep hills.

Check to make sure that thethe fuel lines are in good nick. A small creack sround a fuel will cause an air leak and result in this kind of problem. (went through this in a 1.3 too) even if it diesn;t show up as a fuel leak (remember the pump is sucking so up near the fuel pump there won't be a fuel leak when parked, only an air leak when running.

Filling the tank will increase the "head" and reduce the problem.

Give it a go.

Steve.

Im with Steve on this one. Fuel pump, how old is it? Pickup in the tank could also be blocked.

Dan

[Gwagensteve]

standerd carbys are crap thats your problem same thing happend to mine put a small weber on it and check the oil for metal might have to re build it that helped mine

Are you serious? that's like putting a rockhopper in a car with a gear noise hoping it makes it go away... it might, but it might not too. The weber on a sierra thread is up to 10000 pages by now with everyone posting their set up tips. IMHO this car has a problem that needs to be sorted before you start digging into modifications that might never fix the original problem.

Miss Forby - when you have the pump off, blow the lines back from the fuel pump into the tank with compressed air, check the tightness of all hose connections, make sure the vapour line from the carbon canister to the tank isn't blocked, and if your car still has an NT tank in it, drain the tank and look for crap in the fuel. (after you have blown the lines out.)

I have heard that another potential problem is a disintegrating fuel pump will pass debris into the carby too. A small clear fuel filter in the line from the pump to the carby will allow you to see this.

Just some pointers.

Steve.

[Danzo]

fuel pumps die in 2 ways,
1: pumps fuel temporarally or not at all. it either starves or floods.
2: the seal above the actuator lever gets a leak - crack. usually resulting in burning oil, you will notice blue smoke out the back. while running like a pig

I have 2 votes (am I allowed 2 votes??)
1: the carb is icing up
2: fuel pump,

[gman79au]

Can I put a vote in for charcoal canister and fuel tank breathing system? I've had a problem very similar to what your discribing, it would run fine for 20 mins than stop let it be for about half hour or so than i could get another 20mins driving out of my suzi, made long trips into an epic journey.
next time it stops try taking the fuel cap off than try starting again. this will release any vacum built up by poor ventalation.
I found this problem on the side of the princess hwy near kiama and was under my suzi pulled all the rubber fuel hoses off the metal pipes and found arfter putting them back on car ran fine for half an hour did this for about 200km till i got home than found my charcoal canister was full of mud and dust! replaced it all fixed.

If this doesn't work than carry on with the above posts and completly rebuild you drover completing the build with a suzuki badge

[St Jimmy]

check the fuel filter near petrol tank it may be blocked

[Gwagensteve]

fuel pumps die in 2 ways,
1: pumps fuel temporarally or not at all. it either starves or floods.
2: the seal above the actuator lever gets a leak - crack. usually resulting in burning oil, you will notice blue smoke out the back. while running like a pig

I have 2 votes (am I allowed 2 votes??)
1: the carb is icing up
2: fuel pump,

Or a block full of petrol

I'm not sure its the icing, it's normally more of a problem in VERY cold climates, like Melbourne and with snorkels, but maybe.

Miss Forby - so you still have the warm air hose and if so what setting is the air cleaner on? That's the easy way of eliminating the icing theory.

Steve.

[St Jimmy]

standerd carbys are crap thats your problem same thing happend to mine put a small weber on it and check the oil for metal might have to re build it that helped mine

Are you serious? that's like putting a rockhopper in a car with a gear noise hoping it makes it go away... it might, but it might not too. The weber on a sierra thread is up to 10000 pages by now with everyone posting their set up tips. IMHO this car has a problem that needs to be sorted before you start digging into modifications that might never fix the original problem.

Miss Forby - when you have the pump off, blow the lines back from the fuel pump into the tank with compressed air, check the tightness of all hose connections, make sure the vapour line from the carbon canister to the tank isn't blocked, and if your car still has an NT tank in it, drain the tank and look for crap in the fuel. (after you have blown the lines out.)

I have heard that another potential problem is a disintegrating fuel pump will pass debris into the carby too. A small clear fuel filter in the line from the pump to the carby will allow you to see this.

Just some pointers.

Steve.

i can only go on what worked on mine but i did'ent put a ford /weber on i used a 26/28 of a fiat/128 :lol:what works for one won't won't work for another

[Gwagensteve]

Yeah but how pissed off would you be if you put a weber on and still had the original problem because it was a line blockage or an air leak?

Steve.

[St Jimmy]

Yeah but how pissed off would you be if you put a weber on and still had the original problem because it was a line blockage or an air leak?

Steve.

you would be pissed that why you ask for ideas

[j-top paj]

didnt zooks come with electric pumps?

[j-top paj]

any updates yet jess? did you get it home?

[Danzo]

didnt zooks come with electric pumps?

no its the stump looking growth on the left next to the dizzy,behind the carbie

[j-top paj]

bugger, this will be a first for me then

[Danzo]

and dont for get if your taking them off to have a rag handy because of the way they are designed oil sits behind them and will spew out worse then your oil filters

[MrsForby]

Morning guys... *grumble*

OK....Got back to the car yesty with my neighbour. Let him poke around.. He finds the wire from the coil to the dist. has come off at the coil. (One thing I didnt notice in the morning.)

Car started under protest but got it back to mums. Still wasn't running right so I tend to believe this wasn't the REAL problem.

I'll keep you updated, although I wont touch it til the weekend.

Thanks guys.

[St Jimmy]

did you get it fixed

[j-top paj]

get it fixed so u can bring it next sat night and break it

[Rotazuk]

Hi
Your zuk has the same problem mine had , never did fix it as I stopped driving it on the road . I went through everything bar a carb overhaul so guess its in there . But mine only did it with 1/4 tank of gas or less . It was like carb icing but not quite , was as good as gold with anything over 1/4 tank . I could run the tank out but would have to stop every 5-10km depending on terain wait about 5 - 10 mins and be off again ( makes for a long drive )

Good luck , Id look at the carb

Chris

[Gwagensteve]

rotazuk, this sounds like the air in the fuel line problem to me. Because the fuel pump has to pull fuel from the tank a very slight split or loose fit on a fuel line will cause this kind of problem.

The reason it only happens below 1/4 tank is because there is less "head" of fuel assisting the pump.

A clear fuel filter between the chassis and the pump will help you find this. If it doesn't stay full, there's your problem.

I am fairly convinced that people heap sh!t on the sierra carb, but often the problem is elsewhere. I know they aren't god's gift to carbs, but if people eliminated everything else before they dug into the carb or ripped it off for something else (and thereby fixed the problem by going EFI or fitting an electric pump) they'd find it wasn't the carby in the first place.

Steve.

[Danzo]

I have added another clear filter between the chassis and the pump and it isnt always full. rather 1/2 full with air. I have no probs with air in lines and i can run the tank empty
this isnt a problem for me and I have been 4wding plenty with this set up. I'm still using the original carbie and all its attatchments. I have been told to put it after the pump before the carbie this way you can tell if the pump is leaking oil or air. Migh change mine to this set up!~

if you want to keep an eye on your pump then install the clear filter after the pump not before.