I filled the GQ with 120L of diesel from the "Metro" servo near Ourimbah about 2 weeks ago. This is an independant servo with cheap fuel that I was advised bought their fuel from Shell. Turns out they buy their fuel from whoever is cheapest on the market... sometimes cheap Thai fuel that has the properties of kerosene...
After suffering terrible performance, rough running, clouds of white smoke and high running temps I have since run 2 full tanks of decent fuel thru the truck over the last week during a trip up the coast.
Runs like a dream now and that it has cleaned itself out nicely.
Moral to the story, I'm going to pay a few more cents per litre and get fuel from a reputable major supplier. The measly savings aren't worth the risk of getting a bad dose of fuel.
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Bad Fuel = Unhappy Diesel
Posts: 3825
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:42 pm
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 8:42 pm
Location: in the sky , its a bird , its a plane ! No its super MOOSE !!!
Posts: 3523
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 8:42 pm
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 8:42 pm
Location: Somewhere they can't reach me, shoot me or electrocute me...
My opinion on BP fuel is this:
BP were the ones who offered to help with costs involved in pump reseals and rebuilds due to the introduction of low sulphur diesel, in a move to keep customer faith and sales of diesel fuel. This would place a large emphasis on the quality of BP fuel, and also puts BP's fuel quality in the public eye. I think BP would be looking to have their processes (refinery, bulk storage, transport/handling and station storage/fuel pumps) of fuel delivery to the customer, to the highest possible standards. Irresepective of what bill down the road says, I think the heads at BP would be ensuring the quality of their fuel is premium, because they have been in the spotlight before (over fuel quality), I don't think they would like to be in it the same way again.
I have no associations with any fuel company, but sometimes a bad rumour can start a rot amongst poorly informed people. I've always used BP fuel since the low sulphur debacle, I have a clear glass water trap - I've always kept an eye on the quality/colour/suspended contamination/water percentage. I change the filter cartridge every 5000 and have always been pleased with what I've found in the cartridge/glass bowl - stuff all contamination. Some of the independents could be a bit dodgy though...
Glad to hear the rig running well again JK.
BP were the ones who offered to help with costs involved in pump reseals and rebuilds due to the introduction of low sulphur diesel, in a move to keep customer faith and sales of diesel fuel. This would place a large emphasis on the quality of BP fuel, and also puts BP's fuel quality in the public eye. I think BP would be looking to have their processes (refinery, bulk storage, transport/handling and station storage/fuel pumps) of fuel delivery to the customer, to the highest possible standards. Irresepective of what bill down the road says, I think the heads at BP would be ensuring the quality of their fuel is premium, because they have been in the spotlight before (over fuel quality), I don't think they would like to be in it the same way again.
I have no associations with any fuel company, but sometimes a bad rumour can start a rot amongst poorly informed people. I've always used BP fuel since the low sulphur debacle, I have a clear glass water trap - I've always kept an eye on the quality/colour/suspended contamination/water percentage. I change the filter cartridge every 5000 and have always been pleased with what I've found in the cartridge/glass bowl - stuff all contamination. Some of the independents could be a bit dodgy though...
Glad to hear the rig running well again JK.
Built, not bought.
Posts: 3523
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 8:42 pm
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 8:42 pm
Location: Somewhere they can't reach me, shoot me or electrocute me...
BP introduced low sulphur in some states well before it was mandated, thus their problem when seals started to fail. BTW the problem with seals when changing over to low sulphur was old, hard seals.
Another reason you should buy from outlets that sell lots of diesel is those with a low turnover are more likely to have water/fungus (black death) in the fuel.
Another reason you should buy from outlets that sell lots of diesel is those with a low turnover are more likely to have water/fungus (black death) in the fuel.
John
I know a tanker driver in VIC who says that when he goes to get fuel from the refineries, he parks next to or waits in line with people with all sorts of brand names on the side of there trucks. In Vic there is only 2 fuel makes, and they are Shell and Mobile. So the other brands either get there fuel of them (the big ones do ie caltex, BP etc). I cant remeber for sure but he did say safeway buy crap, but then again my mum and dad run it in there 80's and have never had a problem.
I think servo quality can vary alot, and the independants arnt as strict with cleaning out pump filters etc (as the fuel pump has a better filter then most cars).
I buy fuel from APCO servo's in Bendigo pretty much every fill and haven't had a dodgy batch yet.
Glad to hear it is running fine now. I have dogy fuel from big name servo's and usually the next good batch fixs it.
Turps
I think servo quality can vary alot, and the independants arnt as strict with cleaning out pump filters etc (as the fuel pump has a better filter then most cars).
I buy fuel from APCO servo's in Bendigo pretty much every fill and haven't had a dodgy batch yet.
Glad to hear it is running fine now. I have dogy fuel from big name servo's and usually the next good batch fixs it.
Turps
Isn't it funny. As a small independent I thought I was more conscious of quality than the big guys. It won't matter much in the future though.
Within 2 years Coles Myer / Shell & Woolworths / Caltex will controll more than 50 per cent of the market and most of the indies will be gone. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WE WILL BE PAYING FOR FUEL THEN!!!!!!
Within 2 years Coles Myer / Shell & Woolworths / Caltex will controll more than 50 per cent of the market and most of the indies will be gone. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WE WILL BE PAYING FOR FUEL THEN!!!!!!
blu125 wrote:Isn't it funny. As a small independent I thought I was more conscious of quality than the big guys. It won't matter much in the future though.
Within 2 years Coles Myer / Shell & Woolworths / Caltex will controll more than 50 per cent of the market and most of the indies will be gone. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WE WILL BE PAYING FOR FUEL THEN!!!!!!
I agree with you and I was more than happy to support a local independant but I am not prepared to risk the health and performance of my vehicle. As you are all aware any work on a diesel donk = $$$.
The day after I filled up there, he had a sign on the diesel bower saying that it was out of service. When I saw this sign, I dropped in to query him about why it was out of service and ask about any problems with the quality of his fuel and he said that he sells over 4,000L a day and that he has never had a complaint. His bowser was out of service because he couldn't get enough supply to meet demand. More than likely I had copped a dose of the crap on the bottom of his tank.
I have learnt my lesson and I will be paying a few more cents per L now and filling up at a big name servo.
turps wrote:In Vic there is only 2 fuel makes, and they are Shell and Mobile. So the other brands either get there fuel of them (the big ones do ie caltex, BP etc).
you didnt hear about that company that got the 55 million $ fine for selling dodgey fuel in Vic??
They were importing from interstate, adn then cutting it with everything from cat piss to old sump oil...
Some of the independants get it from overseas, how the puck this can be cheaper still loses me.....
Only buy from Brand companies, I only get from Shell up the road if I can, never EVER EVER get from dodgey joints or safeway.
)http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s890373.htm
Sorry $53 million
- Saturday, 28 June , 2003 08:08:00
Reporter: Ben Knight
EDMOND ROY: Tax experts say they're stunned by a $53-million fine handed down in the Victorian Supreme Court yesterday.
The fine, the largest in Australian history, was awarded against two Victorian companies and their executives, for mixing diesel fuel with cheaper products to avoid paying excise duty.
The father and son behind the companies say they've done nothing wrong, but won't be appealing the decision.
Motoring groups say it sends a strong message to fuel distributors, but others warn that it puts the whole cash economy on notice.
Ben Knight reports.
BEN KNIGHT: The sheer size of the fine has taken even the experts by surprise.
JOHN GLOVER: I was aghast, simply aghast. It's a huge figure.
BEN KNIGHT: Associate Professor John Glover, from Monash University's Faculty of Law.
JOHN GLOVER: Well, normally fines have to bear a proportion to the scale of the offence. Now, I understand that the offence was limited to an evasion of in the order of $6-million worth of duty, and to impose a fine of $53-million in respect of that to me smacks of disproportion.
BEN KNIGHT: No doubt Ray and Kevin Sidebottom would agree. It was their company, Australian Petroleum Suppliers, the court found had systematically added solvents, kerosene, and heating oil to diesel fuel.
Yesterday, Ray Sidebottom was maintaining he'd done nothing wrong.
RAY SIDEBOTTOM: We don't concede to the charges, we just wanted to finish the case.
BEN KNIGHT: Mr Sidebottom says it was a commercial decision to agree to pay the fine, and claims the Tax Office was seeking total penalties of $500-million. His company is now in voluntary administration. Another of his companies, Goulburn Valley Liquid Tankers, may be about to go the same way.
The Sidebottoms are based in the northern Victorian town of Numurkah, and are among the biggest employers in the region. And Tony Greco, from Taxpayers Australia, believes that may be one of the reasons the Tax Office decided to pursue a civil, rather than a criminal case against them.
TONY GRECO: Rather than closing down the businesses which employ people in regional Australia, maybe they can send a clear message to the public, as well as recouping unpaid excise and penalties and still possibly having these businesses continue in the future.
BEN KNIGHT: The Sidebottoms won't be appealing against the figure; therefore, it stands at $53.2-million. So does that figure now set a precedent?
John Glover.
JOHN GLOVER: No, it doesn’t. It does the opposite of that because if it doesn't go any further it means that it doesn't have the standing of a higher court's imprimatur on the fine.
BEN KNIGHT: So this doesn’t necessarily set a benchmark?
JOHN GLOVER: Oh, well, to a degree it does because it's a decision by a court of record that 53 is an appropriate fine for an offence which sounds in the order of six.
BEN KNIGHT: Truck drivers who spoke to AM say adulterated fuel is still a problem, and does cause damage to trucks, particularly those of owner drivers, who seek out cheap diesel.
But claims against the suppliers are rare, and are unlikely to be made against the Sidebottoms.
But David Cumming from the RACV says the large fine provides the strong deterrent that was needed.
DAVID CUMMING: It's absolutely huge and it really gives a very strong message to not only those that make the product but those that sometimes may wish to blend on the forecourt of a service station that if you do this sort of thing and you get caught you will be hit very heavily because after all, the last thing you want is doctored fuel out there in the workplace, particularly in the area of diesel, where some blends can actually lower the flashpoint of that diesel and make it quite dangerous. So we've got to stamp this out and we've got to make sure people are aware that it's not good to doctor with our fuel, we want to run our cars on good quality product and quite frankly this sounds a very good signal to any in the industry who may wish to go on some sort of scam just to make a few dollars at the expense of the motorist.
BEN KNIGHT: This is a big win for the Australian Taxation Office, who have been gearing up for a new series of audits on indirect taxes and the cash economy.
And Tony Greco says it's not just fuel retailers who should take notice of this result.
TONY GRECO: I think the general community that are blatantly avoiding taxes are the ones that should be put on notice. I mean, whether it's excise or GST or any other of the federal taxes, I think there are more reasons to be afraid of the Tax Office, given the sophistication that is on the increase from the Tax Office they've got greater ability to uncover these types of situations.
EDMOND ROY: Tony Greco from Taxpayers Australia, ending Ben Knight's report.
Sorry $53 million
- Saturday, 28 June , 2003 08:08:00
Reporter: Ben Knight
EDMOND ROY: Tax experts say they're stunned by a $53-million fine handed down in the Victorian Supreme Court yesterday.
The fine, the largest in Australian history, was awarded against two Victorian companies and their executives, for mixing diesel fuel with cheaper products to avoid paying excise duty.
The father and son behind the companies say they've done nothing wrong, but won't be appealing the decision.
Motoring groups say it sends a strong message to fuel distributors, but others warn that it puts the whole cash economy on notice.
Ben Knight reports.
BEN KNIGHT: The sheer size of the fine has taken even the experts by surprise.
JOHN GLOVER: I was aghast, simply aghast. It's a huge figure.
BEN KNIGHT: Associate Professor John Glover, from Monash University's Faculty of Law.
JOHN GLOVER: Well, normally fines have to bear a proportion to the scale of the offence. Now, I understand that the offence was limited to an evasion of in the order of $6-million worth of duty, and to impose a fine of $53-million in respect of that to me smacks of disproportion.
BEN KNIGHT: No doubt Ray and Kevin Sidebottom would agree. It was their company, Australian Petroleum Suppliers, the court found had systematically added solvents, kerosene, and heating oil to diesel fuel.
Yesterday, Ray Sidebottom was maintaining he'd done nothing wrong.
RAY SIDEBOTTOM: We don't concede to the charges, we just wanted to finish the case.
BEN KNIGHT: Mr Sidebottom says it was a commercial decision to agree to pay the fine, and claims the Tax Office was seeking total penalties of $500-million. His company is now in voluntary administration. Another of his companies, Goulburn Valley Liquid Tankers, may be about to go the same way.
The Sidebottoms are based in the northern Victorian town of Numurkah, and are among the biggest employers in the region. And Tony Greco, from Taxpayers Australia, believes that may be one of the reasons the Tax Office decided to pursue a civil, rather than a criminal case against them.
TONY GRECO: Rather than closing down the businesses which employ people in regional Australia, maybe they can send a clear message to the public, as well as recouping unpaid excise and penalties and still possibly having these businesses continue in the future.
BEN KNIGHT: The Sidebottoms won't be appealing against the figure; therefore, it stands at $53.2-million. So does that figure now set a precedent?
John Glover.
JOHN GLOVER: No, it doesn’t. It does the opposite of that because if it doesn't go any further it means that it doesn't have the standing of a higher court's imprimatur on the fine.
BEN KNIGHT: So this doesn’t necessarily set a benchmark?
JOHN GLOVER: Oh, well, to a degree it does because it's a decision by a court of record that 53 is an appropriate fine for an offence which sounds in the order of six.
BEN KNIGHT: Truck drivers who spoke to AM say adulterated fuel is still a problem, and does cause damage to trucks, particularly those of owner drivers, who seek out cheap diesel.
But claims against the suppliers are rare, and are unlikely to be made against the Sidebottoms.
But David Cumming from the RACV says the large fine provides the strong deterrent that was needed.
DAVID CUMMING: It's absolutely huge and it really gives a very strong message to not only those that make the product but those that sometimes may wish to blend on the forecourt of a service station that if you do this sort of thing and you get caught you will be hit very heavily because after all, the last thing you want is doctored fuel out there in the workplace, particularly in the area of diesel, where some blends can actually lower the flashpoint of that diesel and make it quite dangerous. So we've got to stamp this out and we've got to make sure people are aware that it's not good to doctor with our fuel, we want to run our cars on good quality product and quite frankly this sounds a very good signal to any in the industry who may wish to go on some sort of scam just to make a few dollars at the expense of the motorist.
BEN KNIGHT: This is a big win for the Australian Taxation Office, who have been gearing up for a new series of audits on indirect taxes and the cash economy.
And Tony Greco says it's not just fuel retailers who should take notice of this result.
TONY GRECO: I think the general community that are blatantly avoiding taxes are the ones that should be put on notice. I mean, whether it's excise or GST or any other of the federal taxes, I think there are more reasons to be afraid of the Tax Office, given the sophistication that is on the increase from the Tax Office they've got greater ability to uncover these types of situations.
EDMOND ROY: Tony Greco from Taxpayers Australia, ending Ben Knight's report.
i only ever shop at mobil or shell just because i know of the quality control that they must do to get the fuel to us.. plus wokrin at a servo i know what the deal is with water in the tanks etc. you would all be very surprised to kow that at 20mm of water is detected in a tank the sale of the fuel is stopped an we have to pump it out and we can get a reading whenever we like just at the push of a button which is all done electonically.. i dont think many of the indepndants have these measures thus why there fuel is shit sometimes..
NAM IS THE SOFTPORN KING!!!
<mage> what should I give sister for unzipping?
<Kevyn> Um. Ten bucks?
<mage> no I mean like, WinZip?
<mage> what should I give sister for unzipping?
<Kevyn> Um. Ten bucks?
<mage> no I mean like, WinZip?
I agree that some joints cheapen up on the fuel...
I have suffered from 2 bad batches of Sub tank only top ups - and have had to drain and replace.
Also guys who runs diesels.... How often have you run algae remover through ($10 to clean Your system) every 3-6 months...?????
I get it from Caterpillar - and they reccomend it as I had my pick ups gunge up from a moist batch of fuel... PITA to get to and clean properley.... This is why sometimes the cars develop flat spots and does untold carnage to very $$$$ fuel pumps....
Good luck Dirt pig but stop by your local CAT joint and grab some and gove your car a dose.. It does help.
I have suffered from 2 bad batches of Sub tank only top ups - and have had to drain and replace.
Also guys who runs diesels.... How often have you run algae remover through ($10 to clean Your system) every 3-6 months...?????
I get it from Caterpillar - and they reccomend it as I had my pick ups gunge up from a moist batch of fuel... PITA to get to and clean properley.... This is why sometimes the cars develop flat spots and does untold carnage to very $$$$ fuel pumps....
Good luck Dirt pig but stop by your local CAT joint and grab some and gove your car a dose.. It does help.
80 Series Turbo - the Toy car...
XR6 Turbo - the work car...
XW wagon - the dogs car...
XR6 Turbo - the work car...
XW wagon - the dogs car...
80diesel4play wrote:I agree that some joints cheapen up on the fuel...
I have suffered from 2 bad batches of Sub tank only top ups - and have had to drain and replace.
Also guys who runs diesels.... How often have you run algae remover through ($10 to clean Your system) every 3-6 months...?????
I get it from Caterpillar - and they reccomend it as I had my pick ups gunge up from a moist batch of fuel... PITA to get to and clean properley.... This is why sometimes the cars develop flat spots and does untold carnage to very $$$$ fuel pumps....
Good luck Dirt pig but stop by your local CAT joint and grab some and gove your car a dose.. It does help.
Certainly will! I don't fancy the idea of a $$$ fuel pump rebuild at this point in time.
I have run algae remover thru about 6months ago but the truck is due for another now.
Posts: 3523
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 8:42 pm
Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 8:42 pm
Location: Somewhere they can't reach me, shoot me or electrocute me...
Can anybody answer the question how the algae removers work? Do they kill it, and cause the debris to be trapped in filter, or dissolve it and be passed through to be burnt during combustion? Steer clear of anything that will bypass the filter media, ie any product that suspends/dissolves/emulsifies anything in the fuel. You want everything (water, algae) except the fuel to be trapped by the filter.
Built, not bought.
Just look up a CAT dealer near you for one - its @10 per small bottle.
It causes the algae to be broken down to microscopic, then fed into filter for traping. It generally grows around the pickup mesh and blocks it - crap fuel aslo creates the same environs with junk in the fuel...
Also - if you have a full tank of juice - use it... don't hold fuel in teh car longer than a week - the heating cooling affects it as well.
Also can get a wax buildup in cool conditions as well.
Up to you guys - but I like teh cheaper option of prevention...
It causes the algae to be broken down to microscopic, then fed into filter for traping. It generally grows around the pickup mesh and blocks it - crap fuel aslo creates the same environs with junk in the fuel...
Also - if you have a full tank of juice - use it... don't hold fuel in teh car longer than a week - the heating cooling affects it as well.
Also can get a wax buildup in cool conditions as well.
Up to you guys - but I like teh cheaper option of prevention...
80 Series Turbo - the Toy car...
XR6 Turbo - the work car...
XW wagon - the dogs car...
XR6 Turbo - the work car...
XW wagon - the dogs car...
Just look up a CAT dealer near you for one - its @10 per small bottle.
It causes the algae to be broken down to microscopic, then fed into filter for traping. It generally grows around the pickup mesh and blocks it - crap fuel aslo creates the same environs with junk in the fuel...
Also - if you have a full tank of juice - use it... don't hold fuel in teh car longer than a week - the heating cooling affects it as well.
Also can get a wax buildup in cool conditions as well.
Up to you guys - but I like teh cheaper option of prevention...
It causes the algae to be broken down to microscopic, then fed into filter for traping. It generally grows around the pickup mesh and blocks it - crap fuel aslo creates the same environs with junk in the fuel...
Also - if you have a full tank of juice - use it... don't hold fuel in teh car longer than a week - the heating cooling affects it as well.
Also can get a wax buildup in cool conditions as well.
Up to you guys - but I like teh cheaper option of prevention...
80 Series Turbo - the Toy car...
XR6 Turbo - the work car...
XW wagon - the dogs car...
XR6 Turbo - the work car...
XW wagon - the dogs car...
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