Turbo Trouble

Post by **HARMZ** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:39 am

A couple of weeks ago heard a â€˜wurringâ€™ noise coming from car first thought might have been gearbox, but series of test proved it wasnâ€™t, now it sounded like it was coming from front passenger foot wall, which is right behind turbo, so took to Village Motors Redcliffe for them to access as also time for service, they took it for test drive and said it disappeared as engine warmed up and that was hard to hear as other noises ie. 3 inch free flow exhaust, and that they couldnâ€™t pin point it and that I should monitor it.

It now is there all the time and on the weekend while taking off the intercooler pipes found them to be lined with oil and excess oil in the intercooler, see the pictures below.

Now I would have thought Village Motors would of checked this, have had truck their before, for gearbox -$2000 warranty paid for and crankshaft $5000 which I paid for, so you think would want my business, every time there they take twice as long as they say, therefore will not be going back again.

So do we all think my turbo is I on its way out?

And what should I replace it with, ie. GT28 but what specs?

Post by kk » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:10 am

oil will most likley be coming from the rocker cover breather which will be connected to the intake side of the turbo somewhere, or into the air cleaner. oil will be coming from engine bypass not the turbo.

Post by **HARMZ** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:24 am

Then what do you make of the noise which appears to be coming from the turbo area, this noise is most notcieable at around 1800rpm till about 3000rpm.

Post by **bogged** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:08 pm

$5000 crank job? What did you have done/what happened?

Post by **HARMZ** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:10 pm

bogged wrote:$5000 crank job? What did you have done/what happened?

Follow link.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... highlight=

Post by **bogged** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:20 pm

HARMZ wrote:
bogged wrote:$5000 crank job? What did you have done/what happened?
Follow link.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... highlight=

ah yes, remember this one...

could your sound be an air leak? Possibly split or loose hose for the turbo?
Is the car peforming as good as normal?? Or down a bit?

Post by **HARMZ** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:28 pm

bogged wrote:
HARMZ wrote:
bogged wrote:$5000 crank job? What did you have done/what happened?
Follow link.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... highlight=
ah yes, remember this one...

could your sound be an air leak? Possibly split or loose hose for the turbo?
Is the car peforming as good as normal?? Or down a bit?

Performing is not really a word you associate with the 2.8, but still same, the fact that noise come on with boost, not when in neutral, in neutral reving engine doesn't start producing any reading until about 3000rpm

The reason i first thought it might be gearbox or transfer case was that it sounded like an auto transimssion low on fluid, now has a more metal sound similar to to engineering lathe, which = bad.

Post by **bogged** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:38 pm

I would start by takin it to a spanner man and asking them before gettin stressed.. see wat their opinion would be.

Post by **HARMZ** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:45 am

Took it AMMS at Sandgate, they put it on the dyno and agreed the noise was coming from the turbo, when they took it off, thye found that it was indeed farked, the shaft had about 10mm of play in it, vane ends were burred and a chip in one vane plus was plenty of oil.

Decided to put new turbo on, going with the 'Disco Potato' GT2860RS (0.64A/R), but for this to go on need an exhaust manifold from GQ 2.8 as turbo flange is a 3 bolt trilobe configuration not the 4 bolt rectangular 'T25' as on most turbos, also the plumbing also has to change as the factory plumbing is a special bracket, this will require tubing and outlets with possibly some brazing.

Post by **Clanky** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:34 pm

Would be interested to know if the new turbo improves the performance over the original.
Particularly the low end.
BTW what is the turbo going to set you back (not including the manifold bits, installation, etc.)
Might be able to double the output of my 2.8 from zero to double zero.....

Post by **HARMZ** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:18 am

Turns out the GT2860RS is not compatible due to it's configuration.

It would be sending the compresed air straight back towards the block is what the mechanics were told by MTQ, now i always thought you could adjust the rotation of the housings but supposedly not with internal wastegates, so how everyone else has done theirs with the disco potato is beyond me.

Have instead gone with the GT2560R, it will send the compreseed air back up and the compresser housing has the same flanges as the original.

They're goona put it on the dyno when finished and give it a tune, so will be able to give you some figures later.

Post by **mundy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:59 pm

I have a GT2560R on my 2.8, although mine is a gq it wayyyyyy out performes the standard turbo, comes on to boost eariler even though its a larger turbo, u get a bit more power low down, and it keeps pulling higher up in the rev range, it is so much nicer to drive then with the standard turbo. from when i was lookin for a new turbo, i was told if you had gone the route of the GT2860RS that you would need to put a 12mm plunger in the fuel pump as the standard pump cant push out enough fuel

Post by **Clanky** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:34 pm

Cool bananas, I have a GQ as well.
Do you have the spec for the turbo?
And cost?
Any difficult mods to fit it on?

Might do that to mine until I get around to an engine swap if its cost effective.

BTW What PSi are you running.

Sooooo many questions.

Post by **GUEEY** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:09 pm

Is the oily residue that appear around the hose fitting on the crossover pipe normal.?
i have some of this residue leaching out under hose nearth two hose clamps.
only noticed it after i had the Turbo upgrade done to my TD42T GU Wagon.

Cheers

Grant

Post by **GUEEY** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:12 pm

[quote="GUEEY"]Is the oily residue that appear around the hose fitting on the crossover pipe normal.?
i have some of this residue leaching out under the hose nearth two hose clamps.
only noticed it after i had the Turbo upgrade done to my TD42T GU Wagon.

Cheers

Grant

Post by **HARMZ** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:13 pm

Already have the Steinbauer unit fitted, in plenty of black smoke with the unit turned up to 75% (the negine cut out at 100%) so i don't think that would be an issue with the GU's injector pump.

Expecting the turbo to be around the $1300 mark, 3" dump pipe probably around $200 and GQ exhaust manifold $200, plus tuning, labour blah, blah, blah.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... 6541_1.htm

Turbine: 0.64 A/R - Trim 62
Compressor: 0.60 A/R - Trim 60

Post by **Clanky** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:09 pm

That looks pretty good Harmz.
Im only running 15psi and the pump works fine.
Your black smoke would be because the turbo was damaged - anyway I thought the fuel cutout was linked to excessive EGT.
Buggered turbo = high EGT too

Gueey - a bit of oil is normal on the compressor side. Leaking out the flange is not too good though.
Could be due to:
(1) blocked air filter / restrictive air intake ( creates vacuum on oil seal).
(2) Poor oil - quality / fuel dilution / old
(3) breather from crankcase letting oil in (could be related to #1 above)
(4) Turbo worn out

Post by **mundy** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:54 pm

HARMZ wrote:Already have the Steinbauer unit fitted, in plenty of black smoke with the unit turned up to 75% (the negine cut out at 100%) so i don't think that would be an issue with the GU's injector pump.

Expecting the turbo to be around the $1300 mark, 3" dump pipe probably around $200 and GQ exhaust manifold $200, plus tuning, labour blah, blah, blah.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... 6541_1.htm

Turbine: 0.64 A/R - Trim 62
Compressor: 0.60 A/R - Trim 60

shame your in queensland as i got my turbo from GCG down here in sydney for $900, same specs as the one your looking at, so ring around a bit and you may b able to locate one for cheaper, its not that hard to fit it your self either so if your feeling up to it you could save your self some money in labour, as all you need is new oil and coolant lines made up for it. the only other thing is that since the turbo is larger is sits closer to the engine mount, i used a 90 degree bend on the flange that bolts to the turbo intake to solve this problem

Mundy

Post by **Clanky** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:36 pm

Checked with GCG today for a price and replacement turbos and they recommend the GT2554RLS ( $1170) as a replacement instead of the GT2560R.
Same turbine side but a slightly smaller compressor side.
Dont know what the LS means either
Cant find a map on the GT2554RLS to compare.

Who spec'd the GT2560R so I can check with them for comparison

P.S are you running a restrictor in your oil feed to the turbo bearing?

Post by **HARMZ** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:15 am

The mechanics at AMMS use MTQ, and they are the ones who recommended the GT2560R, they are also at the moment installing the same turbo into a GQ 2.8 that has a large front mount intercooler which at current make 130+ hp at the wheels.

Apparently my cousin has a mate who works for GCG so if i was doing this myself i would of got one from there at a reasonable price.

Post by **Clanky** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:21 pm

Thanks again for the info Harmz. I agree with you that it is better to go with a choice that is known to work (GT2560R).
The front mount cooler made a huge difference. I also run lagging on the turbine which helped a bit too. ( takes a bit longer to cool down though)

The 2.8 that had 130hp at the wheels, do you what sort of boost was it running?

[/img]

Post by **HARMZ** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:48 am

Not sure, but if he is replacing the standard turbo cannot be that much.

Post by **HARMZ** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:17 am

Sorry got confused with another dyno chart, that GQ had 117bhp and not sure of what pressure.

My turck still is not ready, turbo is on, needs some pipework, a guy to do the oil & water lines and it's then off to get dump pipe fitted (Anyone interested in the 3" Dump Pipe to suit stock turbo?) and then back for a tune, so here hoping for Thursday afternoon. Meanwhile the intercooler is off to get flushed to get all oil and any bits of metal that could be in there out.

Post by **Clanky** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:53 am

Yeah, that does sound a little more like what I would expect without any internal mods. No good having all that power if it becomes fragile like a 3.0L!

Be great to get some feedback from you (and piccies) about how it performs when you get it back.
Sorry - I already have a stock dump pipe in the shed too

Post by **HARMZ** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:03 am

Will report back for sure, will even take photos on a real camera not moible phone, hopefully get dyno read out as well.

Post by **Clanky** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:05 am

That would be champion!
Looking forward to it.

Post by **mattstar** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:47 am

Any news on the 2.8 turbo mods? A dyno sheet, etc... I started reading this egerly waiting to hear some results.
Clanky if your in the mechanical GQ 2.8 you should pm a guy on here, VN15 I think, he has a few simple injector pump mods that will make a big difference. He seems to know his stuff and can provide a good link, if your confident in your ability you could do it at home. food for thought if your after power

Post by **vn15** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:40 am

I have the good ol mechanical pump on my RD28T and have done following mods to it: big roller turbo, FMIC; 3" dump/zorst, custom intake, 18psi boost, injectormods(pressure set@155ats), LPG injection, water injection, 12mm plunger, Exedy clutch, etc... Have done everything myself except pumpmods/injectormods and the mods to the engine has cost me around 55000nkr, equivalent to AU$11000

I have not dynoed it, but would estimate the power output to be around 250hp, the pump delivers roughly 100cc of fuel.
The turbo is one of the biggest in the GT28 series, GT2871R.86AR.

As mentioned somewhere in this thread, you need a 12mm plunger if you go for a GT28, or you will have alot of lag.

Some pics http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n47/patrolman_2006/

Post by **HARMZ** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:14 am

Finally got it back yesterday afternoon, got 116HP at the rear wheels, this is with the Steinbauer unit at its lowest setting and 15psi, the mechanic said that with steinbauer turned up (didn't say what too) it got 140hp though dangerous fuel levels and filled workshop with black smoke.

The final cost was $3,700, with $1350 for turbo kit, $225 for turbo manifold, $365 for oil and water lines, $135 for intercooler clean and pressure test, $200 for dump pipe, $150 for tuning, $640 labour, $100 for boost controller then various other cost.

Goes much better, however does not whistle anymore, instead it wizzes.

Will take some photos this afternoon.

Post by **HARMZ** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:01 am

TURBO:

DUMP PIPE:

TURBO MANIFOLD

OIL LINES:

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Turbo Trouble

Turbo Trouble

Who is online