Inverted shock bracket but with a twist

[MissDrew]

Yeah shane's old 80

[chunderlicious]

alot of people off here think that just because your car can ramp awsome that it is unstable etc. it isnt that bad but ull cop shit for it if u do it.

No its more like, just because your rig can ramp huge doesn't mean it can preferm.

Zoltan, do you want a trail only rig or an all rounder?
If its a trail only rig then try it and if it works then woo hoo!!!!!!!!!!
If you want an all rounder that you can jump in and drive 1000kms in then I wouldn't bother wasting your time money and effort.

Remember thow with running a second shock on the lever your doubling the cost and in the long run you possibly be better off just spending the money on huge coil overs etc.

never said it would perform awsome. just said that flex doesnt mean unstableness. im forever getting shit for flynns rig, people saying itll flip over easy and be shit on side slopes but it is good.

[Z()LTAN]

i would rather 'do' and 'trial' things than wonder

what if?

[kebwaa]

hey Z()LTON,

I KNOW YOUR TRYING TO BE DIFFEREN'T MATE BUT UNLESS YOU HAVE AN UNLIMITED BUDGET AND TIME, THEN YOUR BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE. THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH WHATEVER ANY BODY DESIGNS THE FIRST TIME ROUND. THATS WHY THE GUYS WHO MAKE THE STUFF IN BULK QUANTITIES SPEND MONTHS EVEN YEARS DEVELOPING THESE THINGS AND ALOT OF MONEY. IF YOU MAKE THIS WORK THE FIRST TIME AROUND THEN YOU WILL BE THE MAN. OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE UP FOR EXSPENSIVE REPAIR BILLS WHEN YOU BREAK SHOCKS OR BEND SOMETHING THAT IS NOT MENT TO BEND. YOU ARE BETTER OFF JUST BUYING BOLT ON OR WELD ON KITS TO MAKE IT SAFE, DRIVEABLE AND TO KEEP THE COST LOWER. BUT IT'S ALL UP TO YOU MATE IF YOU WANT TO BE DIFFERENT THEN BE DIFFERENT, IT'S YOUR CAR.

[Gwagensteve]

i would rather 'do' and 'trial' things than wonder

what if?

Like I said, drive it off road with the shocks off it. That's about 70% of how it will behave.

Even with your idea, you still have to size your shocks and place your bumpstops so when you compress the suspension (like when landing a jump) the shocks don't bottom or you don't end up with metal on metal contact like spring on chassis) Once you have done that, then you won't actually achieve a useful increase in articulation with the pivoting top mount, maybe 3-4", but your drivability, especially under power, will go out the window.

The point is, you still need bumpstops. Springs have a working range, and the more leverage you put on them, the more you need bumpstops to prevent them breaking. This is a common misconception of SPOA conversions.

Additionally, the plans showing additional shocks for controlling lateral movement seem to have things round the wrong way. You will want far more than one (or two) small short travel shocks to control the lateral stability of a 2500kg, SPOA big tyred car.

Steve.

[De-Ranged]

Z()ltan don't be put off by by those telling you it won't work, they do have valid points, but they are boring people probably never stepped out of the sqaure in there lives... "woo is me its to hard.... it'll never work"

-It will cost money to sort out... yes, fact of life but if you were to use adjustable shocks that will give you a range to start with and give you a direction to head, use second hand where ever possible oh and over engineer, if its built serious you wont have to worry about bending or brakage and you can always rebuild it lighter later... and sell the original
-Your spring dampening will be compromised on your initial design if you have spring movement on one side the shock will transfer half of that force to the oposite side shock basicly cutting your shocks down to 50%efficency, try either dialing up compression on your shocks or fitting a damper unit to the crossbar (remember the mounting bar for this is going to act like a lever so how long it is, is going to effect damping) a cheap source for the damper could be a steering damper on a longer arm
-Bumpstops are a must they will stop you toasting your springs from inverting them to much also they are progressive so as you bottom out they take force out of the action saving damage, also assuming you have drop in your leaf springs as you drop one side, it will tilt the compressed wheel closer into the wheel well causing tire rub make you bump stop adjustable so you can dial it down to stop this

As for making the most out of this idea I think you'd need to ditch the leaves and go linkage and coils

Oh and to the "luddites" who got there hackles up for being called boring
heres my build
The Lemon

Cheers Reece

[Mouse]

Just a thought What if you jump it and you land with equal pressure on both shocks bottoming out both your "short" shocks? Flex isn't the only thing you need to think about. Longer shocks also have more oil and surface area to disperse heat. Also you have a ute so you have the room

[Z()LTAN]

de ranged you are the craziest man alive!

i love your build!

U DA MAN!

I had the exact same idea as you on the front spring hangers but i had no means of making them

Your fabwork is orsm!

[De-Ranged]

thanks for the comments its just a bit of fun for me I love finding different answers to problems

Mouse just brought up another good reason for the bump stops save you killing both on a hard impact
The heat is one that is only going to be an issue if you run very hard in very hot conditions, if this is just a daily driver/weekend toy that shouldn't be close to an issue

Cheers Reece

[Gwagensteve]

Where do I start?

but they are boring people probably never stepped out of the sqaure in there lives... "woo is me its to hard.... it'll never work"

Ooookay then Who said it's too hard - it's easy to build this mess, that has no effect on whether it will work or not.

-It will cost money to sort out... yes, fact of life but if you were to use adjustable shocks that will give you a range to start with and give you a direction to head,

Adjustable shocks.. from what application? I'll just go searching for those adjustable shocks that can shock absorb even though the shafts aren't moving.

oh and over engineer, if its built serious you wont have to worry about bending or brakage and you can always rebuild it lighter later... and sell the original

How can you over-engineer a bad idea? I fawkin hate the word over-engineer, because it's only ever used by people who don't know what engineering is. 30 seconds of thought indictes that Z()ltans idea is misguided, building it out of 10mm plate and making it weigh 50kg doesn't make it a better idea.

- spring movement on one side the shock will transfer half of that force to the oposite side shock basicly cutting your shocks down to 50%efficency, try either dialing up compression on your shocks or fitting a damper unit to the crossbar (remember the mounting bar for this is going to act like a lever so how long it is, is going to effect damping) a cheap source for the damper could be a steering damper on a longer arm

What is your 50% based on? by my understanding, in articulation, there is no reason at all for the shock to travel at all until the pivot has run out of travel.

As for making the most out of this idea I think you'd need to ditch the leaves and go linkage and coils

Oh and to the "luddites" who got there hackles up for being called boring

Well, us luddites might understand "roll stiffness" and "lateral stability" so we might be able to explain why running a link suspension with no damping control is a good idea.

At least you told him to run bumpstops, something Z()ltan hasn't grasped yet.

I STILL say, Z()ltan, take it for a drive with no shocks in the rear and see how it goes. If you like it build your idea.

Steve.

[De-Ranged]

You are assuming that anytime a wheel hits a bump it will either cause the vehicle to bodyroll or the oposite wheel will drop, this is the only way your theory holds water

I know from driving thats not close to it, one wheel traveling over a bump isn't going to tip the truck (the weight of the truck on the other 3 springs will resist this anyway) so the one spring that is on the bump will compress as it does so does the shock .....
As the shock pushes up on the mounting bar this rotates and pushes the opposite shock down (so long as there is no hole for this side to go down into) causing the compresion force to be spread over both shocks now if your an engineer you'll understand this means half the movement of the shock = 50% efficency
In an articulation there will still be dampening becouse the front of the truck will be resisting the motion transfering compresion loading to the back suspension which in turn will turn it into a combination of forced articualtion and dampening (which to me has alot of potential... if he can work out how to increase the dampening to control the spring)

Now I could say something about 30 seconds of thought to see that... if you still stuggle with this I can draw a pic or two....

As for over engineering, that has nothing to do with it working or not but it does provide two benifits, first it lets him worry about getting the system to the piont where it will work effeciently without any breakage or or anything bending, secondly and unsaid in my first post since it dosn't break it stops those that can't properly understand the system from "nay saying" it becouse of a simple engineering fault

He will have shocks in the back with this and they will be working, the issue he has to over come is the fact that they will not be effecient enough to dampen the spring properly, my suggestion is a steering damper and a lever arm and or stiffer compression in his shocks

As for a source of adjustable shocks any set of rancho 9000's will do hell I seen a set on trademe the other day for less than $400 and that was for 4

Now for my suggestion of the linkage and coils this system of his has the potential to allow ALOT of axle drop with a partial forced articulation effect, once the uphill axle has stoped on the bump stop... now leaf springs have limits on drop unless you start having fun with 3/4 elipticals and drop shackles etc all of which reduce your axle stability something a good linkage setup handles very well. Oh and "roll stiffness" and "lateral stability" is bases on CoG and your springs (which your truck sits on) the shocks have a settling effect on the springs to stop them bouncing they don't act like a swaybar
Now if you want to debate this with a linkage setup I will not argue I have only spent the last 8 months off and odd reading and studying about them and feel I still have more to learn before I build mine

Cheers Reece

[coxy321]

I was actually thinking about De-Ranged's idea of a steering damper. If you were to put a bracket system onto the top of the "hinge frame" (the bit that has the upper shock mounts and swivell point on it), that had a "Y" shaped receiving setup on top, then you could mount up an RTC steering damper. The "Y" receiver would allow for equal travel either way, and i'm guessing that you can buy different rated springs from somewhere too, that would allow you to "tune" the left-right travel action of the hinged system.

Coxy

[bj on roids]

my thoughts are buy the right length shocks, and install them correctly and run bump stops and you will never bottom them out

WOW

(this is what I would do)