Telecom Towbar?

[dano80]

Have just been given an old (He says) telecom tow hitch. It's cast in a right angle sort of shape, has for mounting bolts that fit the back of a GQ perfectly. The hitch seems to have a top clasp that hinges down to form a complete circle. Hard to explain will upload pic tomorrow. Anyone have any idea of the rated capacity of the unit, I seem to think it is around 5 tonne for some reason...........confirmations?

Cheers, Dano.

[Gwagensteve]

More than you could ever tow- at least 5 tonne.

They're called a pintle hook and they're designed for towing seriously heavy stuff around. They are absolutely the best and safest way to have a tow point and recovery point in one. Nissan knew this, which is why they gave you the pintle mount pattern in the first place on the back of your patrol.

I have one (on the back of the Suzuki ) without the 50mm ball that's rated to 15 tonnes - also came off a telstra car.

I don't know what the capacity of the ball versions is, but the capacity will be cast into the hook.

you can just see mine in the bottom of this photo. It lived on my Gwagen for years before I made a mount for it into my rear crossmember on the suzuki.

Steve.

[bogged]

this kinda thing?

[dogbreath_48]

Also known as a NATO hook, particularly in the UK i think.

[CWBYUP]

Just a warning They are not all 5T rated, They start at 3T and go up from there.

If you want to know the rating on it post up a photo and who made it and I will tell you.

Nick

[shorty_f0rty]

where would you find one of these used? wreckers? I wouldn't mind one for the back of the 40 as im not real confident in the use of the hayman reese for a recovery point..

anyone know what kinda $$ to expect for one 2nd hand?

[mundy]

you could try truck wreckers for em, as most of the isuzu trucks at my work have these instead of just a normal tow ball

[dogbreath_48]

where would you find one of these used? wreckers? I wouldn't mind one for the back of the 40 as im not real confident in the use of the hayman reese for a recovery point..

anyone know what kinda $$ to expect for one 2nd hand?

I've seen them around a few tractor/ag dealers. Also check army surplas stores (real ones - e.g. Tooles Disposals in wodonga)

[bogged]

where would you find one of these used? wreckers? I wouldn't mind one for the back of the 40 as im not real confident in the use of the hayman reese for a recovery point..

anyone know what kinda $$ to expect for one 2nd hand?

Carac in Dande sell em

[dano80]

Just a warning They are not all 5T rated, They start at 3T and go up from there.

If you want to know the rating on it post up a photo and who made it and I will tell you.

Nick

Yup, your right, its not rated at 5 t............its rated at 12

And it looks alot like this, but without the bling

[Gwagensteve]

Jost trailers in Laverton (Vic) sell them - they used to advertise in 4WD Monthly.

Steve.

[dogbreath_48]

....its rated at 12...

But what is the actual ball rated at? Would people consider snatching off the ball?

[dano80]

[quote="Gwagensteve"]

They're called a pintle hook and they're designed for towing seriously heavy stuff around. They are absolutely the best and safest way to have a tow point and recovery point in one. Nissan knew this, which is why they gave you the pintle mount pattern in the first place on the back of your patrol.



I pulled off some of the rear bar parts today, and was strangely shocked by how little was holding the whole pintle assembly.........along with all the weight Its not so much the push/pull.......backward/forward motion that looked dodgy, more the 'ball weight' of what was being towed. From what I could see the original 'crossmember' looks as though it may allow a little bit of flex. As this was going to be the only towbar I am going to use (cutting quarters/rhs rear bar) I am more than a little concerned. Any Nissan engineers out there to convince me otherwise???

Cheers, Dano.

[dano80]

....its rated at 12...

But what is the actual ball rated at? Would people consider snatching off the ball?

I don't see why not. You would do it to a normal towbar, or at least I do. I think a normal 50mm towball is rated at (I think) 73.something kn. which is a crapload. Don't ask what it actually is I have no idea! There is a conversion table around but I havn't the time to look.

Actually the one I have has a cast ball from standard, all one piece. It still looks to be around about a 50mm ball. Any ideas on if it would be stronger than a standard ball?

Cheers, Dano.

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, because the 12 tonne rating is for the weight of a trailer towed on a tow ring, where all the load is shunting backwards and forwards against the ball. Thats over 4 times the load a regular 50mm ball is rated for.

The balls on these combination pintle hooks have much thicker mounting studs than off the shelf tow balls. I would not hesitate snatching off of one.

They are beautifully safe - if the snatch is performed with the hook properly shut, either the eye of the strap will fail, or the whole hook will come off the chassis - very unlikely.

It cracks me up that every landcruiser, patrol, Jackeroo, Pajero (and I am sure others) has this pattern on the back of the chassis, designed by the factory for towing and recovery, yet 99% of 4WDers ignore it and then add a tow bar and then a recovery point to that, adding heaps of welds, bolts, weight and complexity, and then hook it up with a 3.25 tonne rated shackle and snatch off that, when for $180 from ARB you can buy one of these, bolt it on, and have the highest, strongest, safest and simplest recovery point possible.


I love my pintle hook.

Steve.

[dogbreath_48]

Looks like i'll be getting myself a pintle hook! Trailer might need a springover and some 37's though.

Does the upper jaw have any affect on towing a std ball trailer? What i mean is, is there any possibility of clearance problems?

[bj on roids]

no 50mm ball is rated to 15 tonne

[Mark2]

I seem to recall the 4 bolts on the GQ rear crossmember not being that big - M10 or 12 I think????

The last pintle hook I had was drilled for 14mm (9/16") bolts. If the GQ bolts are smaller , it will probably reduce the rated capacity of the hook......

[RUFF]

Yes, because the 12 tonne rating is for the weight of a trailer towed on a tow ring, where all the load is shunting backwards and forwards against the ball. Thats over 4 times the load a regular 50mm ball is rated for.

The balls on these combination pintle hooks have much thicker mounting studs than off the shelf tow balls. I would not hesitate snatching off of one.

They are beautifully safe - if the snatch is performed with the hook properly shut, either the eye of the strap will fail, or the whole hook will come off the chassis - very unlikely.

It cracks me up that every landcruiser, patrol, Jackeroo, Pajero (and I am sure others) has this pattern on the back of the chassis, designed by the factory for towing and recovery, yet 99% of 4WDers ignore it and then add a tow bar and then a recovery point to that, adding heaps of welds, bolts, weight and complexity, and then hook it up with a 3.25 tonne rated shackle and snatch off that, when for $180 from ARB you can buy one of these, bolt it on, and have the highest, strongest, safest and simplest recovery point possible.


I love my pintle hook.

Steve.

You can not be serious You are telling people that a 50mm ball is totaly safe to snatch off. People have died from snatching from a Tow Ball. I dont care if its fitted to a 15T rated Hitch its still only a 50mm ball and is still as weak at its smallest point as any other 50mm ball.

A normal Pintal is fine to snatch from alltough i personally wouldnt as they destroy snatch straps due to the small space between the top and bottom sections pinching the fabric on your straps. But a pintal fitted with a 50mm ball is defianatly not safe to snatch from.

Dano if you have allready been snatching from a tow ball you prob should make sure your life insurance is payed up. As i said above people have died from this and i have seen lots of Tow balls snaped from snatching on them in testing.

[dogbreath_48]

You can not be serious You are telling people that a 50mm ball is totaly safe to snatch off. People have died from snatching from a Tow Ball. I dont care if its fitted to a 15T rated Hitch its still only a 50mm ball and is still as weak at its smallest point as any other 50mm ball.

A normal Pintal is fine to snatch from alltough i personally wouldnt as they destroy snatch straps due to the small space between the top and bottom sections pinching the fabric on your straps. But a pintal fitted with a 50mm ball is defianatly not safe to snatch from.

Dano if you have allready been snatching from a tow ball you prob should make sure your life insurance is payed up. As i said above people have died from this and i have seen lots of Tow balls snaped from snatching on them in testing.

The balls on these combination pintle hooks have much thicker mounting studs than off the shelf tow balls.

How much thicker? Is the 'neck' of the ball any more sturdy than a standard ball?

[dano80]

Yes, because the 12 tonne rating is for the weight of a trailer towed on a tow ring, where all the load is shunting backwards and forwards against the ball. Thats over 4 times the load a regular 50mm ball is rated for.

The balls on these combination pintle hooks have much thicker mounting studs than off the shelf tow balls. I would not hesitate snatching off of one.

They are beautifully safe - if the snatch is performed with the hook properly shut, either the eye of the strap will fail, or the whole hook will come off the chassis - very unlikely.

It cracks me up that every landcruiser, patrol, Jackeroo, Pajero (and I am sure others) has this pattern on the back of the chassis, designed by the factory for towing and recovery, yet 99% of 4WDers ignore it and then add a tow bar and then a recovery point to that, adding heaps of welds, bolts, weight and complexity, and then hook it up with a 3.25 tonne rated shackle and snatch off that, when for $180 from ARB you can buy one of these, bolt it on, and have the highest, strongest, safest and simplest recovery point possible.


I love my pintle hook.

Steve.

You can not be serious You are telling people that a 50mm ball is totaly safe to snatch off. People have died from snatching from a Tow Ball. I dont care if its fitted to a 15T rated Hitch its still only a 50mm ball and is still as weak at its smallest point as any other 50mm ball.

A normal Pintal is fine to snatch from alltough i personally wouldnt as they destroy snatch straps due to the small space between the top and bottom sections pinching the fabric on your straps. But a pintal fitted with a 50mm ball is defianatly not safe to snatch from.

Dano if you have allready been snatching from a tow ball you prob should make sure your life insurance is payed up. As i said above people have died from this and i have seen lots of Tow balls snaped from snatching on them in testing.

Hey Ruff, the pintle that I was given has the towball cast into the unit. So its not your average size neck on the towball, infact its about twice the diameter of a standard towball neck. Would you say the same for one thats been cast with a ball?

P.S. I have snatched off a towball prior to this topic......but will probably rethink my antics. When I snatched off the towball, it was sort of a calculated risk. As the Hilux I was pulling out with my LJ80 only had 2wd, he didn't get too far into trouble before coming to a stop. So as a result he didn't need to much help.......After all it was only an LJ80.

[CWBYUP]

Spot on Ruff you beat me to it.

The other thing that I would like to make sure every one is aware of is where you are talking about fitting these pintle hooks on the back of the patrols is not rated as far as the RTA are concerned.

It is not be used as a towing point of any kind.

Snatch from it, your call, but on road its not a rated towing point.

Just thought I'd make sure you are aware.

Nick

[90Mav]

ok i was looking at this style, and thaught it would be good.
as for snatching. does the top part of the clasp come down tight on the top of the tow ball? if it did, wouldnt the stud on the ball only have shear force on it? (mostly) and would then be ok to snatch from?
if it didn't close with ant force. then surly you could machiene a slot in the top of the tow ball with a tongue on the top clasp bit, to put the tow ball fully in shear? which would have to be ok to snatch from?

Hey Ruff, the pintle that I was given has the towball cast into the unit. So its not your average size neck on the towball, infact its about twice the diameter of a standard towball neck. Would you say the same for one thats been cast with a ball?

do you have a pic of this one? or know where u can get them?

[Gwagensteve]

You can not be serious You are telling people that a 50mm ball is totaly safe to snatch off. People have died from snatching from a Tow Ball.

Yes Ruff, I really am. When it's part of an appropriately rated pintle. You will see in the photo of the ball equipped hook that the nut on the bottom of the ball is much larger than a typical ball nut. They're a different animal. There's no way a conventional ball is rated for 12 or 15 tonnes of shunt from a tow ring on a commercial/military trailer, but these units are.

The sectional area of the base of one of these 50mm tow balls is many times that of the 3.25t (or any regularly used ) shackle attached to the other end of the strap. Assuming equivalent material, the equivalent size of shackle would be enormous.

I must say I DO NOT SUPPORT THE USE OF CONVENTIONAL TOW BALLS AS RECOVERY POINTS and have refused to recover cars that only have a ball at the back but an appropriately rated pintle hook, whether fitted with a ball or not, is still, in my opinion the safest option.

Steve.

[Gwagensteve]

90 mav, yes the ball or bottom of the hook is in "single shear" The gate doesn't lock into the ball or bottom of the hook, but they are always double locked - they have a lock and then a pin or spring clip to stop the gate opening. No amount of forseeable force will open the gate once its locked down.

Steve.

Sooner or later, there will always be a weak link in the system- be it the shackle onto the recovery eye of the other car, the pin through the receiver hitch.. watever. however, compared to what any people have used for years for recovery, I vote these are the business.

CWBUP - I understand your point, but what about the tow bars for Pajero's that bolt exclusively to the pintle mounts? these are super common... does that mean they're not a rated point either? (honest question - not having a stir)

Steve.

[mickyd555]

Spot on Ruff you beat me to it.

The other thing that I would like to make sure every one is aware of is where you are talking about fitting these pintle hooks on the back of the patrols is not rated as far as the RTA are concerned.

It is not be used as a towing point of any kind.

Snatch from it, your call, but on road its not a rated towing point.

Just thought I'd make sure you are aware.

Nick

Correct, however for people lucky enough to own either a GQ or a GU UTE ONLY, they could purchase this fine peice of engineering to allow them to tow using there pintle hook.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... p?t=122583

and for the low low price of $150!!!!!



Pimp my sh*t on outletlimits

[beebee]

You can not be serious You are telling people that a 50mm ball is totaly safe to snatch off. People have died from snatching from a Tow Ball.

Yes Ruff, I really am. When it's part of an appropriately rated pintle. You will see in the photo of the ball equipped hook that the nut on the bottom of the ball is much larger than a typical ball nut. They're a different animal. There's no way a conventional ball is rated for 12 or 15 tonnes of shunt from a tow ring on a commercial/military trailer, but these units are.

The sectional area of the base of one of these 50mm tow balls is many times that of the 3.25t (or any regularly used ) shackle attached to the other end of the strap. Assuming equivalent material, the equivalent size of shackle would be enormous.

I must say I DO NOT SUPPORT THE USE OF CONVENTIONAL TOW BALLS AS RECOVERY POINTS and have refused to recover cars that only have a ball at the back but an appropriately rated pintle hook, whether fitted with a ball or not, is still, in my opinion the safest option.

Steve.

But the ball is still a std 50mm ball. That means the diameter at the nect (the part that narrows to form the ball) is no better than any other 50mm ball.

Sure I'd probably use it too but Ruff is still correct.

[Mark2]

CWBUP - I understand your point, but what about the tow bars for Pajero's that bolt exclusively to the pintle mounts? these are super common... does that mean they're not a rated point either? (honest question - not having a stir)

Steve.

On the Pajero's, they are rated for towing but have a much lower rating than a bar mounted to the the chassis rails AND rear cross member . From memory only 1000kg. I definitly wouldnt snatch off a tow bar with a 1000kg rating.

[MUD EMPIRE]

This is the shizzle................one piece cast.

all the ratings are listed.


http://www.safholland.com.au/Products.cfm?ProductType=2

[CWBYUP]

CWBUP - I understand your point, but what about the tow bars for Pajero's that bolt exclusively to the pintle mounts? these are super common... does that mean they're not a rated point either? (honest question - not having a stir)
Steve.

Its becuse the pintle mount has been tested on the Prado's.

It just Techincal S&#T but wanted to make sure no one got the wrong info.

You also have to remember that the vechile has to be rated to use ONLY this point, Prado's also have another bolt in them, Stuff all but it has another one.

Nick