Diesel/Gas

[midi73]

I know it has been done a fair bit, but I want to know peoples opinions of the different setups.

You have dieselgas who claim that theres is best because it is controlled by computer so it can be tuned perfect and wont overgas.

You have D-gas who say theres is the best because it comes from the tank as a liquid not as a vapour (better for 4wding aparently) it is then vapourized in a box. Their other claim is that it is injected after the turbo so doesnt cause turbo damage etc.

You have torquegas who have built there own as well. They claim they are the leaders and supply a lot of Australia with componants. There system also goes through the turbo which helps it vapourize, they dont reckon it is a problem going through the turbo. Theres is not computerized, but they claim it is a very good setup. They claim that computer ones can overfuel and that theres is garunteed not to. One advantage with theirs is that it is $2900 fitted, which is not a bad price in my books.
Can I have peoples opinions and experiances with these different setups and companys.
Cheers
Ps. I dont mean any disrespect to any one or company, I just want some unbiased opinions and experiances. Everyone says theres is best I want others to say.
Cheers.

[KiwiBacon]

Here's a test you can do.

Get your engine warm and run LPG into the intake of your idling diesel. Turn the key off and see if it keeps running.

[macca81]

Here's a test you can do.

Get your engine warm and run LPG into the intake of your idling diesel. Turn the key off and see if it keeps running.

what does that have to do with the different companies??

[Antz]

Here's a test you can do.

Get your engine warm and run LPG into the intake of your idling diesel. Turn the key off and see if it keeps running.

What is the idea behind this test? LPG wont self ignite in a diesel engine.

I thought the idea was that the LPG promoted more even and complete combustion of the diesel fuel leading to more efficiency and more power. Sort of like nitrous in a petrol engine? (with out the oxidising benefit of N2O)

[KiwiBacon]

Here's a test you can do.

Get your engine warm and run LPG into the intake of your idling diesel. Turn the key off and see if it keeps running.

What is the idea behind this test? LPG wont self ignite in a diesel engine.

In many engines it will, this is the test to tell.

LPG is simply more fuel. More fuel = more power but many engines run into detonation. There is a lot of BS surrounding this at present and a few pictures of cooked engines too.

[pantheas18_hj47]

In many engines it will, this is the test to tell.

LPG is simply more fuel. More fuel = more power but many engines run into detonation. There is a lot of BS surrounding this at present and a few pictures of cooked engines too.

can you explain further please

[macca81]

but none the less, what does it have to do with the diesel/gas systems that this thread asks about?

and yes in theory it may well run on, but it would need alot of gas b4 it ignited under pressure, and for that much gas to get in thru the air intake, there would then be not enuf oxygen for it to combust.... the reason it works normaly is because the diesel explosion ignites it....



now, back on topic, what are peoples thoughts about the various diesel/gas instalations and products on the market at the moment?

[pantheas18_hj47]

sorry bout the off topic above mate

i think we need to distinguish between NA and turbo in the opinions too.

[midi73]

sorry bout the off topic above mate

i think we need to distinguish between NA and turbo in the opinions too.

Yeah not a problem. All info is good info. Yes opinions between natural and boosted would be good.
So from that comment above, are you saying that it works in some diesels and not in others?
And yes on topic answers would be good to.
Cheers.

[macca81]

gas will work on all diesels. it will work better on turboed diesels. each engine will perform diferently, and each system will give different results.

i unfortunatly dont know anyone who runs any of these systems, but id like to hear results also...

[PGS 4WD]

Here's a test you can do.

Get your engine warm and run LPG into the intake of your idling diesel. Turn the key off and see if it keeps running.

I think the implication is that the LPG will compresson ignite, for this to happen the AFR would have to be in the vicinity of 15:1, this is wayyy too much gas for a diesel gas setup, you actually don't introduce any gas at idle, someone may be playing with a complex converter and using the forced idle circuit, not recommended. The LPG needs to be put in only on a warm engine and only once cruising and under load, not idle. The maximum rate of LPG is quite low, go too far and compression ignition will blow hole in your pistons. The main issue with LPG over diesel is that the consumer always wants more and its all to easy to up the LPG rate to the point of no return.

Joel

[midi73]

Here's a test you can do.

Get your engine warm and run LPG into the intake of your idling diesel. Turn the key off and see if it keeps running.

I think the implication is that the LPG will compresson ignite, for this to happen the AFR would have to be in the vicinity of 15:1, this is wayyy too much gas for a diesel gas setup, you actually don't introduce any gas at idle, someone may be playing with a complex converter and using the forced idle circuit, not recommended. The LPG needs to be put in only on a warm engine and only once cruising and under load, not idle. The maximum rate of LPG is quite low, go too far and compression ignition will blow hole in your pistons. The main issue with LPG over diesel is that the consumer always wants more and its all to easy to up the LPG rate to the point of no return.

Joel

Ok no worries, thanks for that answer, I pretty much new that side of things. Has anyone got any answers relavent to the questions.
Cheers

[Tapage]

The LPG coul do sa same as Propane injection ?

[Tuff Events]

I'm not familiar with the 2 types you have mentioned... But..

I run a USA Propane injection (lpg) kit on my F250.. Its all computer controlled & is injected into the air intake...

It is absolutely awesome.. Heaps of extra power & 15%-18% $$$ Saving every fill up..... & no problems after 10 months use..

Cheers
Pete

[Guy]

The LPG coul do sa same as Propane injection ?

LPG is a mix of Propane and Butane the ratios of the mix can vary throughout the year depending on the season's (more butane from memory during the colder months)

[HotFourOk]

The LPG coul do sa same as Propane injection ?

LPG is a mix of Propane and Butane the ratios of the mix can vary throughout the year depending on the season's (more butane from memory during the colder months)

The Autogas at my work is 100% Propane. Supplied by Origin energy.

Only the 'cheaper' stuff is a mixture.

[Guy]

The LPG coul do sa same as Propane injection ?

LPG is a mix of Propane and Butane the ratios of the mix can vary throughout the year depending on the season's (more butane from memory during the colder months)

The Autogas at my work is 100% Propane. Supplied by Origin energy.

Only the 'cheaper' stuff is a mixture.

Dunno what they are telling you, but according to origin it can be up to 50% butane. (here http://www.originenergy.com.au/188/file ... ay2005.pdf)

[DanielS]

Here's a test you can do.

Get your engine warm and run LPG into the intake of your idling diesel. Turn the key off and see if it keeps running.

I think the implication is that the LPG will compresson ignite, for this to happen the AFR would have to be in the vicinity of 15:1, this is wayyy too much gas for a diesel gas setup, you actually don't introduce any gas at idle, someone may be playing with a complex converter and using the forced idle circuit, not recommended. The LPG needs to be put in only on a warm engine and only once cruising and under load, not idle. The maximum rate of LPG is quite low, go too far and compression ignition will blow hole in your pistons. The main issue with LPG over diesel is that the consumer always wants more and its all to easy to up the LPG rate to the point of no return.


Joel

Joel,

With the set up of this system, is it possible to have a richer mixture at say 1000rpm to 2200rpm then lean it out to 5% for the rest of the rpm range..??

Reason I ask, is that- this could help my comp ute of boost(help build boost also) then once its at 2000rpm were the turbo makes 23+psi lean it out . do you think it could be done??. Sorry for the high jack.

Thanks
Daniels

[HotFourOk]

The LPG coul do sa same as Propane injection ?

LPG is a mix of Propane and Butane the ratios of the mix can vary throughout the year depending on the season's (more butane from memory during the colder months)

The Autogas at my work is 100% Propane. Supplied by Origin energy.

Only the 'cheaper' stuff is a mixture.

Dunno what they are telling you, but according to origin it can be up to 50% butane. (here http://www.originenergy.com.au/188/file ... ay2005.pdf)

No, we have a quality certificate saying it is 100% Propane... it isn't just thier garden variety Autogas.
We even have mass signage at work stating this, put up by them.

[PGS 4WD]

Here's a test you can do.

Get your engine warm and run LPG into the intake of your idling diesel. Turn the key off and see if it keeps running.

I think the implication is that the LPG will compresson ignite, for this to happen the AFR would have to be in the vicinity of 15:1, this is wayyy too much gas for a diesel gas setup, you actually don't introduce any gas at idle, someone may be playing with a complex converter and using the forced idle circuit, not recommended. The LPG needs to be put in only on a warm engine and only once cruising and under load, not idle. The maximum rate of LPG is quite low, go too far and compression ignition will blow hole in your pistons. The main issue with LPG over diesel is that the consumer always wants more and its all to easy to up the LPG rate to the point of no return.


Joel

Joel,

With the set up of this system, is it possible to have a richer mixture at say 1000rpm to 2200rpm then lean it out to 5% for the rest of the rpm range..??

Reason I ask, is that- this could help my comp ute of boost(help build boost also) then once its at 2000rpm were the turbo makes 23+psi lean it out . do you think it could be done??. Sorry for the high jack.

Thanks
Daniels

Provided you don't introduce a quantity great enough to compression ignite the mixture

Joel

[cruze62]

The dieselgas seem to be a good system and perform as claimed. Far better results on turboed engines with no turbo failures as far as iv heard. Have fitted quite a few of these systems in the past.

Torquegas system is far more basic. Have removed one system due to owner claiming it had never used any gas since installed even after returning quite a gew times to get the problem fixed.

Not trying to be biased but just commenting on past experience.
Also the 2G rebate is a bonus.

[midi73]

The dieselgas seem to be a good system and perform as claimed. Far better results on turboed engines with no turbo failures as far as iv heard. Have fitted quite a few of these systems in the past.

Torquegas system is far more basic. Have removed one system due to owner claiming it had never used any gas since installed even after returning quite a gew times to get the problem fixed.

Not trying to be biased but just commenting on past experience.
Also the 2G rebate is a bonus.

Thanks for that. That is the sort of info that I am after. I have herd that torquegas has a pretty bad reputation.
What about d-gases claim that the vapour draw from the tank, system that deisel gas uses, (and others) causing problems on steep hills etc. Have you ever encountered this problem.
Cheers.

[Tapage]

I'm not familiar with the 2 types you have mentioned... But..

I run a USA Propane injection (lpg) kit on my F250.. Its all computer controlled & is injected into the air intake...

It is absolutely awesome.. Heaps of extra power & 15%-18% $$$ Saving every fill up..... & no problems after 10 months use..

Cheers
Pete

Did you know how much it's injected .. ?

And it's only injected at desired boost ( example @ + 5 PSI ) or it's injected from low rpm to help make boost .. ?

[truckzilla]

i run a deisel gas system no probs so far ,i check my ltrs/100 every time i fuel up. they say you can run 3-4ltrs /100 any more will be bad so dont get greedy.

as for the vapore draw system ive been told it will work well but if you get condensation in the system and you draw that moisture into your deisel it will go bang ,and it has happened to a few allready.

as for power,well i have a 4.2gu stock mech and no intercooler with 13psi boost and i make 105kw at the rears .

happy to meet up and take anyone for a drive if you are thinking of this type of system (in melbourne of course)

[Dzltec]

Do you have a pyro fitted to yours? I would be worried about very high egt's. If we do mods and set fuel to reach 105rwkw, egts get very hot very quickly.


More safety concern of your engine than anything else.

Andy

[pantheas18_hj47]

i run a deisel gas system no probs so far ,i check my ltrs/100 every time i fuel up. they say you can run 3-4ltrs /100 any more will be bad so dont get greedy.

as for the vapore draw system ive been told it will work well but if you get condensation in the system and you draw that moisture into your deisel it will go bang ,and it has happened to a few allready.

is this for the DIESELGAS system not just a diesel gas system?

[macca81]

i run a deisel gas system no probs so far ,i check my ltrs/100 every time i fuel up. they say you can run 3-4ltrs /100 any more will be bad so dont get greedy.

as for the vapore draw system ive been told it will work well but if you get condensation in the system and you draw that moisture into your deisel it will go bang ,and it has happened to a few allready.

is this for the DIESELGAS system not just a diesel gas system?

[PGS 4WD]

Do you have a pyro fitted to yours? I would be worried about very high egt's. If we do mods and set fuel to reach 105rwkw, egts get very hot very quickly.


More safety concern of your engine than anything else.

Andy

I agree, I'd want to see a decent intercooler on that, what you have is system in perpetual decline, I'd bet the EGT's would get very hot if put under load for any length of time.

Joel

[frp88]

Am I way of here or wouldn't the gas do alot of cooling I know that it is below 0

[macca81]

Am I way of here or wouldn't the gas do alot of cooling I know that it is below 0

not when it combusts its not. it helps the diesel combust more, and so ends up having more fuel burning, giving off a higher temp.