glyco-air intercoolers from 4wd systems anygood?

[scottmcguinness172]

hey all im lookin at getting a glyco-air intercooler or my 100 series are they anygood from 4wd systems and has anyone has one and has it masde anydifference just bolting it on??

[dow50r]

www.dencodiesel.com.au
www.pwr.com.au
The biggest problem with them is getting all the air out of them...if the water inlets are not pointing up, you need a bleed to get air out, if it stays there it turns coolant to steam at 110 deg....
General logic is such that they are 34 times more efficient than air to air....

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

www.dencodiesel.com.au
www.pwr.com.au
The biggest problem with them is getting all the air out of them...if the water inlets are not pointing up, you need a bleed to get air out, if it stays there it turns coolant to steam at 110 deg....
General logic is such that they are 34 times more efficient than air to air....

They are a PWR unit, and when I looked at the PWR core it's not too bad. It has it;s detractors, but it's OK.

Do a search for water to air, it's been gone over before recently. Water to air is LESS efficient than Air to Air. It's more expensive and has more maint problems.
BUT it is a lot easier to plumb, and is great for short spikes of boost.
Just because water has a greater thermal mass has nothing whatsoever to do with efficiency.

Less efficient is because every thansfer doesn't transfer perfectly, there is some resistance.
A/A - Air, Alloy, Air
W/A - Air, Alloy, Water, Alloy, Air
More transfers = much greater chance of intake being higher than ambient.

Paul

[bigcam]

water to air would be more effective for say 1/4 mile drag runs as you start with cold water and it has the capacity to absorb the thermal load for a short period, but water to air still needs air to water to cool it again and logic says if it takes more heat energy to heat the water up (more efficient at cooling the charge air) then it will take more to cool it down again.

probably making it very close in efficiency for longer runs/lower speeds as air to air, but as already said easier to plumb.

i.e. air to air thermal density 1:1

water to air 34:1 and 1:34 when cooling the water = 1:1

[Sic Lux]

W/A - Air, Alloy, Water, Alloy, Air
More transfers = much greater chance of intake being higher than ambient.

It's like looking as there is more reistance to transfer i'd be thinking Front mount but it's a good argument so se where it leads maybe talk to a few tuning joints and see what there opinions are or if the have a dyno sheet of same car fitted with either Air to air and then Water to air would be good and also how long it lasted to see if the water to air does drop off in performance.

[Tapage]

Anybody have a rear Dyno results/comparision about water to air and air to air intercoolers ..

Coul any shop doing that .. ?

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Problem is theory vs real use.

Read this

http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_1815/article.html

Petrol intercoolers tend to be on boost for a short period of time, Heatsink capacbility matters.
Diesels tend to be on boost at cruise, but only low boost. Heatsink is less important. But if you tow up or climb ranges, then you are on boost for a long period of time.

An A/A with not enough air passing over it (low speed) will perform more poorly, as the W/A will heatsink for the first 3 - 5 minutes.
A W/A with it's smaller front radiator will not dump heat from the water very quickly however, so climbing the range, it will get hot and stay hot. It will also soak up engine bay heat into that water, so it will never be as close ot ambient as the front mount.
It's all tradeoffs. Then you move into the turbualator and surface area discussions vs resistance etc etc.
Unless you want to do HEAPS of testing that is all scenario specific you have to make some generalisations.

The ones I make are

The bigger the radiator out the front, the more heat you'll dump. It's that final dump to atmosphere which generallly limits steady state operation.

I'll cope with cheaper intercoolers by oversizing them and putting the wastegate pickup post intercooler.

Anything front mount will reduce radiator airflow AND dump hot air over radiator - double impact possibly giving cooling issues.

All top mounts have heat soak issues becoming interheaters. They need fans.

W/A is easier to plumb, but is more complex, and with 4 heat exchange interfaces, has more chances of inefficiency. For short pulse stuff it can be great, for constant pull, it needs to be sized very carefully.

Offroad i'm rarely on boost. Regard sand as steady state towing. W/A is going to fare badly on sand unless the front radiator is big. Most are small.

A/A has lots of hose joins, it sucks when they blow at 18PSI and 8000RPM causing the other guy in the 180sx to beat you.

W/A has some catastrophic failure modes in a diesel.

W/A is NOT more efficient. It may be better for your circumstance, it may be built better than a cheap A/A, but just having water in it means nothing about efficiency or heat transfer capability.

A couple of temperature probes and a digital thermometer show some interesting stuff.

Water spray is very effective for short burst stuff, cools intercooler very well.

www.are.com.au has some excellent dicussions on all this, but not firm answers. Just more in depth than anything else I have seen published.

Paul





[/list]

[tweak'e]

Anybody have a rear Dyno results/comparision about water to air and air to air intercoolers ..

Could any shop do that .. ?

Dyno's can lie

it would come down to how they test them.
as me3@neuralfibre.com has said they perform differently in different situtions. most dyno tests i've seen in mags etc don't vary the situtions enough or even at all.

http://www.are.com.au/Inter/air_to_water.htm has some good info and it shows the good and bad points of water/air.

[scottmcguinness172]

so what should i do front mount, top mount with a fan, air to water the only problem is with a front mount i have a trans cooler for the auto infrnt of the radiator

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

so what should i do front mount, top mount with a fan, air to water the only problem is with a front mount i have a trans cooler for the auto infrnt of the radiator

A/A front mount will be cheapest, esp if you get chinese. Keep eyes open. Repco sometimes clears them. Careful - pipe and fittings are the cost killer. If you have overheating drama's, or close to them, this may be a problem.

Top mount if you can fit it and get a good bonnet scoop is good. Short plumbing. RUN FANS. Prob smaller than front mount. Won'c cause overheating issues like front mount, but also less effective. It's a toss-up.

W/A if the plumbing is just too damn hard and you feel lazy. Add a temp sensor and post results for us all after a quick fang, and after towing 3ton up a range, or after 20mins in the soft stuff at Fraser.

Paul

[80's_delirious]

some very interesting comments here guys.

Ive been contemplating W/A when $$ available but am starting to reconsider. both seem to have advantages and disadvantages, but for the sake of simplicity and reliability and bang for buck I think A/A is the best option.
A/A are most effective at higher speeds, not so good at lower speeds.
I was thinking W/A with modified AU falcon radiator and twin thermo fans coz large radiator capacity and fans to help airflow for low speed work like beach work.
having an extra radiator or intercooler core upfront means your engine radiator is gonna get pre-warmed air especially when turbo is at higher boost, but air going into the engine is cooler, so should counteract this.


some good info here

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/techFAQ.html

W/A is easier to plumb, but is more complex
Paul

yeah plumbing in air intake pipes will be less involved, but for W/A there is an intercooler core to set up, a radiator core, water pump and lines, wiring for the pump, temp sensor to switch pump on/off, or do you run it constantly?
Definitely a lot more to consider with W/A. and overall I think more work to setup.

water to air would be more effective for say 1/4 mile drag runs as you start with cold water and it has the capacity to absorb the thermal load for a short period, but water to air still needs air to water to cool it again and logic says if it takes more heat energy to heat the water up (more efficient at cooling the charge air) then it will take more to cool it down again.

probably making it very close in efficiency for longer runs/lower speeds as air to air, but as already said easier to plumb.

i.e. air to air thermal density 1:1

water to air 34:1 and 1:34 when cooling the water = 1:1

without having a dig, this seems a little too simplistic, I dont know enough about it to be sure.
W/A systems use a relatively small intercooler core compared too A/A, if this is coupled with a large radiator this ratio would improve. Also if you can double the surface area of the radiator wont heat be exchanged in about half the time, improving this ratio more?.

check out ebay for pipe, bends and fittings in kits

[scottmcguinness172]

has anyone intercooled a auto 100 series have they moved the auto cooler or anything

[dow50r]

I know a guy who put a safari kit on his, the cooler only takes up the drivers side of the front area...u could also go to the wreckers and get a std hdfte one...a bit small but it works

[known 2]

seen on a safari turbo petrol cruiser.
the intercooler takes up about half of the uper grill and seems to fit in without moving the radiator.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

I'll be doing mine with a full width one in the next month or after XMAS if I run out of time. There is room in front of the auto cooler to run a full width intercooler. Factory TD intercoolers are cheap / free from anyone that installs turbo's as they replace them. I wanted bigger personally. The cost is in the plumbing / hassle, not in the core itself.

Paul

[hdj105]

seen on a safari turbo petrol cruiser.
the intercooler takes up about half of the uper grill and seems to fit in without moving the radiator.

Safari / APS only use the half width one (like below) to prevent any dramas / expense with having to relocate the auto trans cooler like their 80 series front mount kit did. The core is 115mm thick!

However don't even waste your phone call to Safari if you want to purchase just the intercooler components ;-)

[bj on roids]

What is the pic of?

It looks like a pre02 100 series, but the bonnet/grille are one piece!!

sick

where can i get one of those bonnets

[bubs]

What is the pic of?

It looks like a pre02 100 series, but the bonnet/grille are one piece!!

sick

where can i get one of those bonnets

the grill may have been removed just for the photo

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

What is the pic of?

It looks like a pre02 100 series, but the bonnet/grille are one piece!!

sick

where can i get one of those bonnets :lol:

That's a Lexus which means that's a turbo'd V8

[Bad_Zook]

What is the pic of?

It looks like a pre02 100 series, but the bonnet/grille are one piece!!

sick

where can i get one of those bonnets

That's a Lexus which means that's a turbo'd V8

Pretty sure that looks just like the 1hd-fte (6 cyl TD!) in my 79'series rv ...lol...

its obviously the safari demo vehicle- hence the removed grille to show the 'cooler (on left)

[hdj105]

What is the pic of?

It looks like a pre02 100 series, but the bonnet/grille are one piece!!

It's a HDJ100 - i.e. 1HD-FTE (and a GXV from memory). Sorry I picked that picture because none of the other 100 series turbo systems they display on their webpage show a clear image of the intercooler and tranny cooler.

Yes the grille has been removed (3 screws & 2 clips), however the LX470 grille does lift with the bonnet (but there's no TD LX470's!)

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Sorry I saw a Gold & Silver Cruiser VX at Indro one day with crown or govt plates and every available option, including a wonderful bonnet scoop and aftermarket turbo kit on the V8 petrol. Had the Lexus bonnet on the cruiser. Setup for on-road of course, but still looked damn expensive. Gold trim everywhere.

Paul

[scottmcguinness172]

safari dont sell just the intercoler kits for the 10 series anymore so there goes that idea so ill just make my own so the next question is who has done a front mount intercooler on a 100 series with pics

[hdj105]

safari dont sell just the intercoler kits for the 10 series anymore so there goes that idea so ill just make my own so the next question is who has done a front mount intercooler on a 100 series with pics

As I mentioned above, don't bother calling to buy just the intercooler! They still make turbo i/c kits, but won't sell the i/c seperately.

[spazbot]

safari dont sell just the intercoler kits for the 10 series anymore so there goes that idea so ill just make my own so the next question is who has done a front mount intercooler on a 100 series with pics

As I mentioned above, don't bother calling to buy just the intercooler! They still make turbo i/c kits, but won't sell the i/c seperately.

Some company's just make bad business decisions, no separate IC kits, wont sell their 80 series 4.5l petrol turbo kit to AU