antoher 33's on MK question - pics

[steveGLS]

hey guys, i have read all thrads posted about fitting 33's to a triton but havent learnt much as of yet. At the moment my car sits at stock height with 31" A/T's and has absolutely no issues with scrubbing at all - not even at full flex. whilst at my brothers house over the weekend we thought for a laugh we'll put his troopy 33" muddies on my car as they were just sitting in his shed, which was a bad idea. i want to get 33's on my car, and still have it as a daily driver and capable off roader. the wheels fitted no dramas, plenty of room to swing a cat under the rears, the fronts were a little tighter but still not bad clearance. looking under there was room for flex and turning, the only problem was the tire scrubbed the sides of the guard on the outside (circled in pic). now, im not even sure what torsion bars are, and am completely baffled by not seeing any suspension under the car! i have read that the torsion bars can be wound up (only 1.5" or so) but i doubt this will stop the scrubbing as i only turned the wheel once before it hit...

ok, what will i need to do to get these under my guards and not have any issues? even if i have to cut guards etc. (not that i would do that but...) i just wanna know what has to be done.

thanks in advance.
steve

my car as is (31" A/T's)
[/img]

[WTF]

they actually appear bigger than 33!

as for where they rub when turning, looking at how close to the guards they are it looks like if u went over so much as a decent bump it will scrub badly.

you will need to do a 2in susp liftat least.

mark

[steveGLS]

i was under the impression that because there is no leafs or springs under the front, you couldnt do a suspension lift? is this true? i do need to lift the car but how can i do this on the MK?

[NJV6]

You need to wind up the torsion bars.

There is one one either side.

Climb under your vehicle and about below the rear seats is a solid bar that runs right forward to the lower arms of the front suspension. This is the torsion bar. One for each side.

At the rear of these is a thread and a lock nut. undo the lock nut and wind away. Lift the front of the vehicle off the ground makes the winding easier when you do it. Count the number of turns you do so you can do the same to each side and return it back to normal if you want.

I think the biggest problem by lookingat those pics is the wheel offset. Something with a little less offset will be a lot better, especuially when turning.

[WTF]

i was under the impression that because there is no leafs or springs under the front, you couldnt do a suspension lift? is this true? i do need to lift the car but how can i do this on the MK?

no springs???

of course there are springs!

i dont know my tritons, but id suspect itll be IFS using torsion bars.

a torsion bar is simply a spring, uncoiled, that runs front to back, rather than around in circles like a coil spring.

torsion bars can be replaced with heavy duty ones, or simply winding them up so they have more preload on them, increasing ur height.


mark

[WTF]

I think the biggest problem by lookingat those pics is the wheel offset. Something with a little less offset will be a lot better, especuially when turning.

id definately agree with that. the tyres on ur old rims will give u the proper offset, i wouldnt think 33s would scrub when turning with the correct offset.

[steveGLS]

At the rear of these is a thread and a lock nut. undo the lock nut and wind away. Lift the front of the vehicle off the ground makes the winding easier when you do it. Count the number of turns you do so you can do the same to each side and return it back to normal if you want.

I think the biggest problem by lookingat those pics is the wheel offset. Something with a little less offset will be a lot better, especuially when turning.

yeah, ive read that these can be wound out but it gives only 1.5" of lift? does this sound correct? by winding this out does it impede with the turning, or strenght from the torsion bar? what side effects does playing with the bars do? i will need lots more lift than an inch and a half... is a body lift safe or is there another way of getting more lift?

the offset is from my brothers troopy. by changing the offset would be changing how far out the wheel sits right..? with the offset changes this shouldnt change the width between the guard and the side oif the tire? or am i just completely off track?

i havent seen any pics or anything of MK's that have been lifted a decent amount or even if its possible to fit these size tires...

[NJV6]

Yea you are on the wrong track...

The less offset you ahve the further 'in' the wheel will will resulting in less arc when turning and going up & down leading to less rubbing. Make sense?

[WTF]

the offset is from my brothers troopy. by changing the offset would be changing how far out the wheel sits right..? with the offset changes this shouldnt change the width between the guard and the side oif the tire? or am i just completely off track?

changing offsets will change how far the rim sits from the inside wall of the strut tower, however if the rims are a different width, that of course will also change how far the rim sits.

Offset is the distance between the very centre of the rim, to the position the rim bolts to the hub

i havent seen any pics or anything of MK's that have been lifted a decent amount or even if its possible to fit these size tires...

i am fairly sure there has been a massive amount of threads over the lasst year asking the exact same question.

[-Scott-]

I think the biggest problem by lookingat those pics is the wheel offset. Something with a little less offset will be a lot better, especuially when turning.

Yes. Your original wheels have a +10mm offset, LandCruiser rims typically have around -22mm offset - so they sit more than 30mm further out than your rims. This increases your track more than allowed, and increases strain on suspension and steering components. Some do it, but I wouldn't advise it.

Similarly, I'm guessing those tyres are 33x12.5", or 2" wider than your 31" tyres. This means that wheel and tyre combination has the outer edge of the tyre more than 2" further out.

33x10.5" tyres on your factory rims should fit much better - but no guarantees. Next step would be to try some Patrol fitment rims - they have zero offset, and probably work better with 33" tyres than the factory rims.

... winding them up so they have more preload on them, increasing ur height.

This is a common myth - and it's wrong. Winding up the torsion bars makes no significant difference to the tension in the bar - changing the angle of the short arm at the chassis end changes the angle of the suspension control arm at the other end. The amount of "twist" (or tension) in the bar doesn't change.

Consider it another way: the tension in the torsion bar is supporting the weight of the vehicle. To increase the tension in the bar would require more weight - where has that come from?

[steveGLS]

Yea you are on the wrong track...

The less offset you ahve the further 'in' the wheel will will resulting in less arc when turning and going up & down leading to less rubbing. Make sense?

yes, complete sense, i didnt word it right but its what i meant! with the triton offset i will still have rubbing, so what else can i do to get the car off the floor?

WTF i do know there have been numerous threads asking this but the answers have never lead to an answer or pics showing what to do or trucks that have had it done! im getting to the bottom of this!!!!

these wheels are my brothers so the offset wont be an issue, but the scrubbing still will! i will wind up the bars but will still need atleast another 1" or even 2. the rear, being a ute already sits higher by a fair bit so i can bring the front up a few inches...

is the troopy offset alot different that the triton??

ok, im still looking for the torsion bar, i think this is it because it leads to a bolt with an inch or so of travel! is this it??
[img][img]http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8058/pictureyi8.jpg[/img]
[/img]

[steveGLS]

i actually really like the offset on these wheels, is it possible to use this offset by raising the car 2.5 or 3"???

[NJV6]

Yep, pic is bang on.

[steveGLS]

great thanks for that... thats a weekend job by the looks of it but atleast i know how to get the first bit if lift. what side effects will raising the bars do, will it compremise strength/safety? will it distrupt turning or turning circle?? its bad enough as it is! do i just get a ring spanner to the top bolt and wind away!?

im after anybody who has done this modification or knows what to do? what mods need to be done to get these on exactly?!

i actually really like the offset on these wheels, is it possible to use this offset by raising the car 2.5 or 3"???

[MontyMcV]

Yep, pic is bang on.

The pic is good, but look at the adjusting bolt. It's already cranked pretty tight. I don't see much more lift coming out of the t-bar without reindexing.

Also, if you crank them very far, you will likely want to get it aligned.

[steveGLS]

The pic is good, but look at the adjusting bolt. It's already cranked pretty tight. I don't see much more lift coming out of the t-bar without reindexing.

im not sure what im looking at here im completely new to this. my previous cars have been trying to sit them as low as possible!

from what i know the car is sitting at stock height. i thought the inch or so of thread above meant thats how far i can wind it down, or is that how far its already been wound up?!

ok, what else can i do to get the car higher?

[sjjenkin]

you could also do a 2inch body lift. with ally blocks would be fine but you would also need to modifi your frount and rear bar. but i think some front trimming would be a better idear crack out the grinder

[NJV6]

As With respect to comments on another forum, we are trying to send you in the right direction!

What more do you want...

You have been told to get more suitable rims (factory ones maybe) and lift your vehicle by winding the torsion bars up.
See how close the top suspension arm is to the bump stop, you will only be able to lift 2 inches from standard due to the design of the suspension in the front and this will run into handling issues.

No? - you want the other 'fat' rims with will rub and rub. Do a Body Lift &/or cut flares & bumper with angle grinder and run into possibly roadworthy issues....

Do you want the height or width of the 33x12.5x15 you tried on.

I realise you are green at this - have you tried joining a club, group etc, it is so much easier to learn when someone who knows can show you rather than over the net.

NJ

[steveGLS]

apologies if you took my comments the wrong way by no means did i mean these comments have been worthless, ive used the great info ive been provided thus far especially from yourself. by saying i wanted to be pointed in the right direction i was hoping to get someone with a past experience to put me onto products, or parts that will get the car a few extra inches higher than the torsion bars will give. again i apologise if you think whave you guys have said isnt helpful.

Do you want the height or width of the 33x12.5x15 you tried on.

i want the width and that 'fat' look. the tires made the car look so much more agressive and im not sure going skinnier tires will give the same look. but having said that i would like to go as wide as possible without hindering the cars performance off road.

I realise you are green at this - have you tried joining a club, group etc, it is so much easier to learn when someone who knows can show you rather than over the net.

i bought the car initially so i can have a comfortable cruiser and i would not be restricted to where or what i could drive on and light off road use. after seeing and thrashing some of my brothers 4x4 tracks and cruising back on the beach i was hooked. i found the triton very capable off road.
what im getting at is ive owned the car for only 2 months and never thought of joining clubs etc because that wasnt what the car was intended for but now its high on my priority list! i havent seen many, or any tritons being done up so im finding it hard to gather info on what i can and cant do...

You have been told to get more suitable rims (factory ones maybe) and lift your vehicle by winding the torsion bars up.

i like the look of the massive tires, will 33's look as big and agressive on skinnier wheels and smaller width. also will i still run into troubles getting 33's on correct offset and only being able to use torsion bars to get lift.

in the picture does it look like the torsion bars have beem wound out as much as they will already go?

thanks for the help!

[NJV6]

Have you considered a wide tyre that is not as tall? I know BFG do a wide tyre that isn't as tall (325/60x16). Probably cost the earth however they are the same height as 31's.

I think you will get a bit more out of your torsion bars. Undo the lock nut on 'top' and wind away. But keep an eye on the front bump stops as you don't want it to be that high that it rests on them otherwise your handling will really suffer. And get a wheel alignment.

To get those 33x12.5x15 and the fat look under i'd say a 50mm body lift.

I'd be pretty confident you'd get 33x10.5x15 under it on std wheels but your right - they don't look so butch or fat.

These are them on std wheels.

[steveGLS]

yeah, theyre big but not quite what im looking for. speaking to my brothers mate at ARB today. see what i can do

[rustygq]

hi, all. i have a mate with 33s on his triton dual cab. they rub on the front bar when ever he turns. if i were you i would fit after market torsion bars and give the bar a trim. a 2inch body lift would be the next option. but i would try torsion bars. you wont get too much more out of the standard bars by the looks. im a mechanic at a mitsubishi dealer, just go easy on the gearbox with the big tyres, they are the tritons worst point.

[steveGLS]

thatnks rusty, thats great info. i spoke to a mate who works at ARB, he told me they dont do custom or modified torsions, but did say he would gladly make up som bodylift spacers to raise it 2" is it possible to modify the original torsion bars? im completely new to the torsion bar set-up and am still confused how it actually works! what does trimming the bar mean?
you did mention to go easy on the box with the big tires, how will the big tires stress the box? will it affect any other parts? i have heard the triton gearbox is weak i have the 5 speed and seems to be great sp far.

[NJV6]

What gearbox does it have? Have a look on the firewall plate under the bonnett. the weak box is KM145 or something like that.

The torsion bar is basically a coil spring but straight instead, without the coils. It is spring steel and you imagine sticking your arm straight out in front of you and twisting your wrist. That is how it works. Which ever way you turn your wrist it wants to go back to flat.

By winding it up, you are resetting the 'base' level that it sits (imagine twisting your shoulder - your hand would then sit in a different place)

* At the 'front' of the torsion bar where it attaches to the lower A arm on the suspension it is splined. This can be taken off and put on rotated 1 spline. Does that make sense?
I should add that I have not ever done any resplining or 're indexing' as it's known so what I ahve written in that sentence is only what I have gathered from the workshop manual

[rustygq]

hi, rusty again. ironman do a suspension package that includes torsion bars. shop around a bit. i think old man emu might do them too. my mate is going to neatly cut his front bumper where the tyre touches. he hasnt done it yet so im not sure what its going to look like. with your gearbox, stick your head under your vehicle and have a look at the bottom of the box. if it has a flat plate like a pan of an auto trans then you have the weaker gearbox. it is bolted on with about 12 bolts from memory. the stronger box is rounded on the bottom and has very large oil filler and drain bungs on the passenger side. dont think if you have the stronger box that you can go hard on it!!!! i get sick of rebuilding gearboxs. generally the diesels have the weaker box and the v6 s have the stronger
as with all body lifts watch brake, fuel, clutch etc hoses for being too tight.
good luck
rustygq

[steveGLS]

sweeeet, the box isnt flat on the bottom, looking under the hood i found its a late 98 but couldn't find the gear box no.

ironman do a suspension package that includes torsion bars. shop around a bit. i think old man emu might do them too

what does these packages include, how much lift and what price?

i can get the body lift done for a carton, but im worried bout the gearbox and bumpers sitting lower. i met a good mate of my brothers just befor his old man owns a bridgestone outlet, so the wheels are getting set up soon! just want to find what im in for before i buy!

appreciate your quick replies fellas

[rustygq]

im lookin at a mag thats not within a year old so price may be a little different. $1062 or $1227 with foam cell shocks. it doesnt say how much lift. give them a ring and talk to them. Ironman 1300 731137. body litf for a slab....... do it!

[steveGLS]

i went to bridgestone and had a look around. they have a courier promo with 16's and equivelant tires to 32". looked very tough, also had the same torsion bar front end as mine. they are fully wound out and he said that it has taken its toll on parts and worn bushes and other components which is what i was worried about. he went on to tell me the only rubbing hey have is on full lock and it touches the mudflap. then i said about how it goes with rubbing while it flexes. he goes on to tell me the boss went through some dip with a bit of steering and tore off the flare... not looking good.

i have looked at some 31" mud terrains to put on my standard wheels... not what i wanted but looks like the most sensible/practical option

anyone care to change my mind

[-Scott-]

Not all 4wds are created equal. What happened to the Courier won't necessarily happen to your Triton - the Mitsubishi IFS is one of the best there is.