4" lift in GQ

[liftkit8]

Can i have some sensible feed back on what your thoughts are of the functuality of a 4" lift in a GQ.

Primarily to be used for touring. If done correctly ie; castor correction bushed - adj. panard rods - does anyone still suffer from the dreaded shimmy?

[demon dude]

4 inch lifts are fine for touring just do the kit properly.
Use drop boxes....... NOT plates, bushes ,radius arms etc.
The reason is the geometry of the nissan radius arms to the front diff will be corrected if using boxes , if you look at a nissan in standard form the radius arms are fairly low down at the rear supporting the diff ok, now when a lift is added all of a sudden the rear of the radius arms are higher above the diff by 4 inchs which then has a lot less support. some guys have the theory thet dropped radius arms fix this . B******it. they are no different than caster plates as they are rotating the diff to correct the caster but they do not connect low enough to support the diff, the only advantage is they will not stress the rear bush like a plate or bush setup.
As far as shocks on nissans the larger bore means less heat which means less failure. Panhards, swaybars,brake bias valve etc all nead to be corrected.
Upper control arms are a must as this will rotate the diff back down and straighten the coils upwrite again. If this is not done the coils will prematurely wear out and during articulation the pinion kicks up even more so this adds more strain on the shock shaft and this will cause the shock to start leaking.
The drag link needs to be an adjustable one to lengthen out as your turning circle will be comprimised.
IF DONE CORRECTLY YOUR TRUCK WILL DRIVE BETTER THAN FACTORY WITHOUT SHIMMY OR HEADSHAKE
Talk to any of the manufactures of the parts such as SUPERIOR ENGINEERING, SNAKE OR THIRDS

[liftkit8]

thanks for the feedback.

stepping out of an 8" lifted GQ - i am vey weary of going done that goat's track again.
The money and time spent making the bloody thing drivable was suicidal.

Drop boxes welded in place sounds dramatic for 4" - but if thats what is proven - must work eh?

I havent even started to enquire about drop box installation - what is a ball park price?

[Nelso]

Superior seem to be about the best value for money out of all the aftermarket suppliers. Just check out their web-sight for prices.

[terra88]

Not trying to start an arguement but I have a few problems with what Demon Dude said... as far as adjustable rear trailing arms fixing all your problems then that is a BIG NO .. For example... They are mainly to correct the pinion/uni angle to minimise the drivline vibrations that can occure when lifting the vehicle.. But here is the problem, if you raise the front of the diff up to straighten the drivshaft angle then you also put more stress on the shock which is now bending and "as mine is" hitting on the spring and bump stop stricker plates. Also that will put more bend in the coil...

It is a catch 22 situation ...

As for drop boxes up the front, they will lower the rear of the front diff , hence increasing the front drivshaft angle and most likely cause bad vibrations when hubs are locked in..

HERE IS MY 0.02 cents worth ...

My 92 Mav LWB has
4-5 inch superior coils + 1 inch spacers
rancho adj shocks
F&R superior adj panhards
Superior adj drag link & toe bar
Tough dog steering damper
Braided extended brake lines
Caster plates (original bushes)
No Sway bars
2" body lift

It drives 99% better then most GQ's I have driven and I have driven a lot as I used to work for pedders suspension.

My only gripe is that without sway bars it has sh$t loads of body roll, so for touring I reccomend leaving them on and fitting spacers.

[Nelso]

The adjustable rear control arms are to LOWER your pinion to keep the universal joints aligned. This will also keep your spring seats level. I believe you are better off lengthening your lowers rather than shortening your uppers myself.

A four inch lift is not enough to worry the front pinion angle and cause vibrations. 6 inch lifts, however, can cause vibrations. Castor plates also align the diff so the pinion is the same angle as the drop boxes!

To answer the original question; a 4 inch lift is fine on a tourer as long as everything is done right, but I wouldn't advise going any bigger. I would also agree that drop boxes will give you the best road manners and off road performance for a tourer, the next best thing would be drop radius arms. Also, I know you didn't mention it, but don't even think about a body lift.

[bogged]

Can i have some sensible feed back on what your thoughts are of the functuality of a 4" lift in a GQ.

Primarily to be used for touring. If done correctly ie; castor correction bushed - adj. panard rods - does anyone still suffer from the dreaded shimmy?

If your only touring, why go 4inch? You wouldnt need more than a 3inch on a good day with wind behind you downhill...

[terra88]

The adjustable rear control arms are to LOWER your pinion to keep the universal joints aligned. This will also keep your spring seats level. I believe you are better off lengthening your lowers rather than shortening your uppers myself.
.

But if you lengthen the lowers that will force the the pinion to the ground and that will straighten the springs and shocks but it will put the uni at more of an angle ... ???

[its aford not a nissan]

i have a 4 inch lift with drop boxes , and used the later model slotted bushes from nissan , standard panhards (probly need to be 10 mm longer to center again) and longer shocks all round, i get reasonable flex from the front, no vibrations unless a wheel is out of balance, i also extended the rear swaybar links to get full droop , and im thinking about putting the front swaybar back in as i get a bit of body roll going around corners

works fine for me

[beretta]

Can i have some sensible feed back on what your thoughts are of the functuality of a 4" lift in a GQ.

Primarily to be used for touring. If done correctly ie; castor correction bushed - adj. panard rods - does anyone still suffer from the dreaded shimmy?

If your only touring, why go 4inch? You wouldnt need more than a 3inch on a good day with wind behind you downhill...

Thats if you live in Vic Bruce. In NSW with all the rock you need lift or you drag your arse along half of the trails and get hung up all over the place, trust me I came up here with a 3" lift and it was always a pain in the arse. 4" is being very sensible.

Hey Mick, long time no speak, you going soft in your old age mate? Bet you'll be happy not to have to wrestle the thing up the road anymore!

[bogged]

Thats if you live in Vic Bruce. In NSW with all the rock you need lift or you drag your arse along half of the trails and get hung up all over the place, trust me I came up here with a 3" lift and it was always a pain in the arse. 4" is being very sensible.

depends on your definition of touring

[KIWI]

But if you lengthen the lowers that will force the the pinion to the ground and that will straighten the springs and shocks but it will put the uni at more of an angle ... ???

Which will help stop driveline vibes

[Nelso]

The adjustable rear control arms are to LOWER your pinion to keep the universal joints aligned. This will also keep your spring seats level. I believe you are better off lengthening your lowers rather than shortening your uppers myself.
.

But if you lengthen the lowers that will force the the pinion to the ground and that will straighten the springs and shocks but it will put the uni at more of an angle ... ???

Yes, that's the point. Vibrations come from the uni joints running at different angles, not from them running at big angles. A SWB can often handle a 4 inch lift with standard unis (but any bigger usually needs a double cardin due to the angles binding the uni) but all LWB Patrols will handle a 4 inch lift no problem as long as the unis are in line.

[Suspension Stuff]

Can i have some sensible feed back on what your thoughts are of the functuality of a 4" lift in a GQ.

Primarily to be used for touring. If done correctly ie; castor correction bushed - adj. panard rods - does anyone still suffer from the dreaded shimmy?

I pretty much want to confirm that you are better off getting rear control arms, even though you could get away with not getting them.

I would suggest Snake Racing's Adjustable lower control arms because they are very strong (which you need in case you brake your weak factory control arms on rocks therefore killing your diff, tail shaft and other stuff) and also because they correct your diff pinion angle keeping it parallel as others have said. There are other reasons also that I don't want to bore you with.

Some go for the fixed lowers and adjustable uppers but I think it just costs you more money.

The other reason why you need to adjust your rear control arms is because of your shocks. The bigger the bore the worse the problem is because it hits other parts of the vehicle and is put under more strain then they were designed for.

For everything else adjustable I usually use Superiors stuff.

Anyway I have other info that may help you decide what to get on my web site at www.suspensionstuff.com.au

When I get a GQ again in the next few months (already approved by the MRS ) I will be fitting it with air bags, that way I can ride around on about a 2 or 3" lift and then raise it up in the bush. Call me or email me for info and great prices on them.

Shane
0409 593 414

[demon dude]

If this is a wagon?? with 33's or bigger tyres, than fitting lower adjustable control arms to correct the pinion angle ( both flanges parrallel to each other) the gaurds will get hit by the tryes under full articulation if the shocks and coil rates are correct, obviously because the diff is pushed back to push the pinion down
This is why you do not be a tight arse and do upper arms to do the job correctly and fit lower non adjustables for strength( much stronger as they do not have a thread)
If it is a ute or wagon with little tires and you want to cost cut than use lower adjustables but be warned adjustables are only as strong as the weakest point. THE THREADED INSERT!!

[Suspension Stuff]

If this is a wagon?? with 33's or bigger tyres, than fitting lower adjustable control arms to correct the pinion angle ( both flanges parrallel to each other) the gaurds will get hit by the tryes under full articulation if the shocks and coil rates are correct, obviously because the diff is pushed back to push the pinion down
This is why you do not be a tight arse and do upper arms to do the job correctly and fit lower non adjustables for strength( much stronger as they do not have a thread)
If it is a ute or wagon with little tires and you want to cost cut than use lower adjustables but be warned adjustables are only as strong as the weakest point. THE THREADED INSERT!!

For a 6" lift then in my opinion you do need the upper adjustable arms like you say but it isn't an issue with the 4-5" lift. (If others have had real life issues with adjusting a 4-5" lift with just lower adjustable control arms then I will be happy to stand corrected)

Have you seen the size of Snake's threaded rod, do you know anyone who has broken one?? (Again, happy to stand corrected but I think it may be rumours) I know with other brands you are wasting your time with the adjustable lowers if you plan to go hard off road.

Shane

[voidroid]

The adjustable rear control arms are to LOWER your pinion to keep the universal joints aligned. This will also keep your spring seats level.

I think the above statement contradicts itself. You can't raise the truck and keep both the universal joints and the spring seats level unless you drop the gear box as well. You can only have one or the other right?

[Suspension Stuff]

The adjustable rear control arms are to LOWER your pinion to keep the universal joints aligned. This will also keep your spring seats level.

I think the above statement contradicts itself. You can't raise the truck and keep both the universal joints and the spring seats level unless you drop the gear box as well. You can only have one or the other right?

What I hope he means is keeping the universal joints parallel not level. If your joints are parallel then you don't get the vibrations. It is when they become unparallel when you get the vibes because the uni's then work against themselves and are not in phase.

Shane.

[voidroid]

Your universal joints might be aligned but then your springs are not getting equal loading across the surface area of the end of the spring, the shocks, panhards etc are all twisted up. What's worse to have to contend with?

[Suspension Stuff]

voidroid raised a good point via pm.

Sorry for going off topic a bit but it may suit liftkit8's needs so here goes.

When I was talking about having air bags sitting at 2 or 3" for on road and then pumping them up for off road you have to have your stuff soughted to suit both these lifts. So this is what I have planned.

Slim line drop boxes to suit a 3" lift and I will replace them with Superiors Super Flex radius arms when he makes them up to suit a 3" lift. I will adjust my panhard rods to suit a 4" lift.
I will adjust my lower control arms to suit a 3" lift. (Snakes control arms are adjustable on the vehicle so it wouldn't be a bid deal to adjust them if I was spending a weekend at Cruiser Park) Being out of phase on the rear by a few degrees in the bush won't hurt.
Longer brake lines, sway bar disconnects and a brake proportion bracket.

Cheers
Shane

[vanbox]

a bit off topic....but i have a swb GQ witrh a 6in lift and adjustable uppers and fixed lowers. there is also a double cardin joint on the transfer case. should i adjust the uppers to get paralell uni flanges? its driveable as is, but would be nice to get rid of a few more vibrations

PAUL

[chunderlicious]

the use of a double cardin is that it allows to you run unparallel unis like in the front of a gq. if they go parallel they start to work shit and cause vibes. adjustable lowers suck. get the uppers, even the solid snake ones bend alot.

[Nelso]

a bit off topic....but i have a swb GQ witrh a 6in lift and adjustable uppers and fixed lowers. there is also a double cardin joint on the transfer case. should i adjust the uppers to get paralell uni flanges? its driveable as is, but would be nice to get rid of a few more vibrations

PAUL

A double cardin set up is designed to run with the driveshaft parallel with the pinion so the double cardin joint is the only angle in your driveline.

[Nelso]

The adjustable rear control arms are to LOWER your pinion to keep the universal joints aligned. This will also keep your spring seats level.

I think the above statement contradicts itself. You can't raise the truck and keep both the universal joints and the spring seats level unless you drop the gear box as well. You can only have one or the other right?

What I hope he means is keeping the universal joints parallel not level. If your joints are parallel then you don't get the vibrations. It is when they become unparallel when you get the vibes because the uni's then work against themselves and are not in phase.

Shane.

Exactly what I meant.

[Nelso]

If this is a wagon?? with 33's or bigger tyres, than fitting lower adjustable control arms to correct the pinion angle ( both flanges parrallel to each other) the gaurds will get hit by the tryes under full articulation if the shocks and coil rates are correct, obviously because the diff is pushed back to push the pinion down
This is why you do not be a tight arse and do upper arms to do the job correctly and fit lower non adjustables for strength( much stronger as they do not have a thread)
If it is a ute or wagon with little tires and you want to cost cut than use lower adjustables but be warned adjustables are only as strong as the weakest point. THE THREADED INSERT!!

For a 6" lift then in my opinion you do need the upper adjustable arms like you say but it isn't an issue with the 4-5" lift. (If others have had real life issues with adjusting a 4-5" lift with just lower adjustable control arms then I will be happy to stand corrected)

Have you seen the size of Snake's threaded rod, do you know anyone who has broken one?? (Again, happy to stand corrected but I think it may be rumours) I know with other brands you are wasting your time with the adjustable lowers if you plan to go hard off road.

Shane

The threaded rod is 32mm solid bar. Its strong, but not indestructible. They have a lot of thread contact so they are not likely to separate under tension, so I doubt they would break. They will, however, deform if a high enough bending moment is applied to the centre of the shaft, so you could bend them.

[Suspension Stuff]

If this is a wagon?? with 33's or bigger tyres, than fitting lower adjustable control arms to correct the pinion angle ( both flanges parrallel to each other) the gaurds will get hit by the tryes under full articulation if the shocks and coil rates are correct, obviously because the diff is pushed back to push the pinion down
This is why you do not be a tight arse and do upper arms to do the job correctly and fit lower non adjustables for strength( much stronger as they do not have a thread)
If it is a ute or wagon with little tires and you want to cost cut than use lower adjustables but be warned adjustables are only as strong as the weakest point. THE THREADED INSERT!!

For a 6" lift then in my opinion you do need the upper adjustable arms like you say but it isn't an issue with the 4-5" lift. (If others have had real life issues with adjusting a 4-5" lift with just lower adjustable control arms then I will be happy to stand corrected)

Have you seen the size of Snake's threaded rod, do you know anyone who has broken one?? (Again, happy to stand corrected but I think it may be rumours) I know with other brands you are wasting your time with the adjustable lowers if you plan to go hard off road.

Shane

The threaded rod is 32mm solid bar. Its strong, but not indestructible. They have a lot of thread contact so they are not likely to separate under tension, so I doubt they would break. They will, however, deform if a high enough bending moment is applied to the centre of the shaft, so you could bend them.

2 Points taken.

1. I now agree, if you were to take a big enough hit you could bend the solid adjustable snake arms where the hollow fixed Superior arms would be less likely to bend because it is hollow and the two radius's actually make it stronger.

2. I also concede that if you were to adjust the lower arms more then about 10mm then on full compression with big 35" tyres you could wreck the rear guards at the back. Doesn't apply to Utes of course.


Shane.

[Nelso]

I would still prefer the longer lower arms and just cut your guards out. While you're at it you might as well cut a bit more and fit bigger rubber.

[Suspension Stuff]

I would still prefer the longer lower arms and just cut your guards out. While you're at it you might as well cut a bit more and fit bigger rubber.

Superior does do 16mm longer fixed length arms.

[demon dude]

Hopefully to clarify things a little about the tailshaft angle and unis, EG .
say the tailshaft angle is measured with an angle meter of the back of the transfer case and it measures 82 degrees (no matter what lift ! )than you MUST adjust the pinion angle to 82 degrees give or take a degree or 2.
Simple way to do this is
1. fit the coils .
2 . remove the top control arms with a jack under the pinion supporting it.
3 . once top arms are out lower the jack which lowers the pinion till pretty much all weight is of it, check the angle of both flanges are identical and when this is so, measure the bolt holes where the top arms go, adjust adjustable arms to measurement and fit.
Wala NO VIBES.
In case of shorty over 4 inch ( in general cardin joint may need to be fitted.) but test drive first doing steps 1,2,3 first
This is a simple procedure and done correctly it will fix the vibration problems.

[HeathGQ]

with the bigger tyres hitting the inner gaurds, either bigger offset rims, or extend the bumpstops to stop just before.