I ordered five mounted and balanced sets of 31” X 10.5” BF Goodrich Mud Terrain (M/T) KM tires on 15" AR-23 American Racing wheels. Payment was by credit card over the telephone and all other additional information was taken by the representative to insure the delivery of the merchandise. He even read back my order to me and it was correct. I asked what proof would exist of the actual order that I placed. He said that there were recordings of the conversations of phone orders to deal with these types of situations and that the recording would be on the PC.
The shipment arrived and when I got home and unloaded the tires I realized that I had been given All Terrain T/As instead of Mud Terrain T/As. I immediately contacted the customer service center with my order number and spoke to the representative. He simply told me that the order said All-Terrain T/As and that I was mistaken. I stated that the situation was totally unacceptable and I demanded the mistake be corrected. He then stated that there was a price difference between the M/Ts and the A/Ts that I would have to pay that amounted to $23.00/tire. Assuming an honest mistake had been made, I stated that I was willing to pay the difference to get the tires I wanted (and had ordered). It’s not my desire to cheat anyone out of anything. If there was an honest mistake made (by 4wheelparts), and I had not paid the proper amount, I was willing to make-up the difference. I was however (and still am not) willing to incur any shipping related costs as the shipping of the errant order is absolutely not my responsibility.
He insisted that I was completely in error and that I would be at least partially responsible for shipping costs. I explained that it was 4wheelparts that was in error and that I was not willing to pay for any shipping. Then he accused me of “deciding I didn’t like the A/Ts when I got them home” and further suggested that I was trying to cheat the company. I explained that I had ordered correctly and that his refusal to absorb the shipping costs suggested strongly that the wrong tires had been sent either on purpose (to reduce costs as the M/Ts are a more expensive tire) or simply with a disregard for the accuracy of the order since few people would be willing to absorb the shipping costs to make the exchange. Simply put, the old Bait-and-Switch. I informed him that that type of activity amounts to fraud and I simply would not accept being a victim of it.
A heated argument ensued. At one point I asked to speak to his supervisor, and was told “this is as high as you’re going to go”. I insisted that the recording of my order be produced as evidence of who was actually in the wrong. I further stated that if a recording of my placement of the order incorrectly could be played for me, I would immediately apologize and accept my mistake. He told me that only his supervisor was authorized to listen to the recording. I was put on hold for about 4 minutes after which, he came back on the phone and told me that his supervisor had listened to the recording and that I had ordered All-Terrains, but that he was still willing to absorb some of the shipping costs. I was shocked. I asked why he’d be willing to absorb any shipping costs if I was clearly in the wrong, and told him that if he played the recording for me, as proof of an errant order, or emailed me the sound file, 4wheelparts wouldn’t have to absorb anything.
He then told me that 4wheelparts wouldn’t provide the recording without a court order. Again, I was shocked. I restated that if the recording said what he had just told me it did, I would apologize and the issue would be closed. He reiterated the need for a court order. I told him that since a court order was required, I’d have to contact an attorney. He got very upset and told me that “if I mentioned the word lawyer one more time, he was going to hang up.” I further stated, that his refusal to provide the recording that would definitively put the matter to rest, was a guarantee that either there was no recording, or that it had confirmed that I placed the order correctly. In either case, it was clear that we were no longer dealing with a simple mistake, but obvious dishonesty and falsehoods. I explained that I was absolutely not going to pay for any of the shipping charges, nor was I going to accept the errant merchandise. I told him that if I was forced to contact an attorney regarding the matter, that, given his behavior, it would be with allegations of fraud. Upon hearing more mention of lawyers, he said good-bye and hung up.
And so here I am. I have 5 incorrect tires, on 5 wheels, all of which I was charged for well before I had any chance to refuse delivery. I have no interim confirmations of the order and a 4wheelparts simply insists that I ordered incorrectly.
As far as stopping payment, it was taken before shipment. They are already paid for. I wrote Mr. Adler ( The president of 4wheelparts) a 2 page email 2 days ago and have not heard from him. The matter is closed as far as the representatives are concerned. They will NOT let me hear the recording.
Unfortunately, in this case, if I do not hear from Mr. Adler the pursuit will likely have to go beyond that provided by a private attorney, and will likely involve filing additional complaints/claims.
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4 Wheelparts - Bait & Switch
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
sounds like a tricky situation.......i know right and wrong is on the line here
but surly it would be cheaper for you to swallow your pride and just pay the extra rather than paying a lawer?
but surly it would be cheaper for you to swallow your pride and just pay the extra rather than paying a lawer?
Mud4b/ OPT, Cheap rates, Not cheap work. Search Opt- option offroad on facebook. Call or Sms 0439609525.. Sunshine coast, Eudlo, 4554.
Hrm... good ol' david vs goliath here! Persoanlly, how much is a set of Mud Terrains worth to you? If u have paid for the A/T, go down to the for sale section and sell them, and take your business somewhere else for the mud terrains, and tell as many people as u can (probably not here) about the other company.
Or if u dont wanna swallow your pride.. hire your attorney, get the court order for the tape, find out if u did order A/T's or M/T's (make 100% sure in your mind that u said muddies), take them for what they are due..
They prob wont play u the tape incase it is someone posing as mr 'mudpuppy', therefore screwing round with your order etc etc. Travel to the head office with your 100 points of ID (depending on where it is), ask them to play u the tape, and if u did ask for muddies.. swap them for the A/T's and drive home again.
Really comes down to what these muddies mean to you, and how much you are prepared to pay to set things right. Good luck how ever! Keep us posted if u can.
Cheers,
Dan.
Or if u dont wanna swallow your pride.. hire your attorney, get the court order for the tape, find out if u did order A/T's or M/T's (make 100% sure in your mind that u said muddies), take them for what they are due..
They prob wont play u the tape incase it is someone posing as mr 'mudpuppy', therefore screwing round with your order etc etc. Travel to the head office with your 100 points of ID (depending on where it is), ask them to play u the tape, and if u did ask for muddies.. swap them for the A/T's and drive home again.
Really comes down to what these muddies mean to you, and how much you are prepared to pay to set things right. Good luck how ever! Keep us posted if u can.
Cheers,
Dan.
Cheers,
Dan.
[i]1996 HDJ80R[/i]
Dan.
[i]1996 HDJ80R[/i]
First of all "DO NOT FIT THE RIMS AND TYRES TO YOUR CAR"!!!!!
LEAVE THEM UN TOUCHED!!!!
Here's where you may be able to get away with it a bit easier than involving a lawyer!!
Since you used your C/Card you can go to your bank and "DISPUTE the TRANSACTION".
Depending on your bank they will have a form that is used for these type of things!!!
It will say something along the lines of-
"the products or goods i recieved do not fit the disription or is not to my satisfaction of the initial purchase".
The bank will then take it on board and sort it out!
THEY do have the ability to contact the supplier and request a copy of any invoices, recordings etc etc. If they do not comply the bank can then pursue it further!
I am not saying this will work ever time but it does work and is another avenue to try first!!!
You can also bring the "Dept of Fair Trading" in on the act! If they believe you have a been ripped they will pursue it for you!!!
BOTH of the above methods will NOT cost YOU any money!!!!!!!!
LEAVE THEM UN TOUCHED!!!!
Here's where you may be able to get away with it a bit easier than involving a lawyer!!
Since you used your C/Card you can go to your bank and "DISPUTE the TRANSACTION".
Depending on your bank they will have a form that is used for these type of things!!!
It will say something along the lines of-
"the products or goods i recieved do not fit the disription or is not to my satisfaction of the initial purchase".
The bank will then take it on board and sort it out!
THEY do have the ability to contact the supplier and request a copy of any invoices, recordings etc etc. If they do not comply the bank can then pursue it further!
I am not saying this will work ever time but it does work and is another avenue to try first!!!
You can also bring the "Dept of Fair Trading" in on the act! If they believe you have a been ripped they will pursue it for you!!!
BOTH of the above methods will NOT cost YOU any money!!!!!!!!
Last edited by POS on Sat Nov 22, 2003 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Its amazing how far you can get by sending the right letter with the right letterhead on top. Surely you have a a friend or friend of friend who can throw a few words together to try and inspire a result. If it doesn't work then maybe decide to drop it.
Unfortunately with these things, if you try to persue them too far then you end up losing financially even if it is a moral victory.
If it was all within Australia, there would be some form of Office of Fair Tradign or governmental departmet to consult. Internationally, I don't know.
Otherwise, the tyres must have been at a good price to warrant bringing them in. If the wheels are right thenkeep them and see how much it woould cost to trade up the rubber.
Good luck
Unfortunately with these things, if you try to persue them too far then you end up losing financially even if it is a moral victory.
If it was all within Australia, there would be some form of Office of Fair Tradign or governmental departmet to consult. Internationally, I don't know.
Otherwise, the tyres must have been at a good price to warrant bringing them in. If the wheels are right thenkeep them and see how much it woould cost to trade up the rubber.
Good luck
Re: 4 Wheelparts - Bait & Switch
mudpuppy wrote:I ordered five mounted and balanced sets of 31” X 10.5” BF Goodrich Mud Terrain (M/T) KM tires on 15" AR-23 American Racing wheels. Payment was by credit card over the telephone and all other additional information was taken by the representative to insure the delivery of the merchandise. He even read back my order to me and it was correct. I asked what proof would exist of the actual order that I placed. He said that there were recordings of the conversations of phone orders to deal with these types of situations and that the recording would be on the PC.
The shipment arrived and when I got home and unloaded the tires I realized that I had been given All Terrain T/As instead of Mud Terrain T/As. I immediately contacted the customer service center with my order number and spoke to the representative. He simply told me that the order said All-Terrain T/As and that I was mistaken. I stated that the situation was totally unacceptable and I demanded the mistake be corrected. He then stated that there was a price difference between the M/Ts and the A/Ts that I would have to pay that amounted to $23.00/tire. Assuming an honest mistake had been made, I stated that I was willing to pay the difference to get the tires I wanted (and had ordered). It’s not my desire to cheat anyone out of anything. If there was an honest mistake made (by 4wheelparts), and I had not paid the proper amount, I was willing to make-up the difference. I was however (and still am not) willing to incur any shipping related costs as the shipping of the errant order is absolutely not my responsibility.
He insisted that I was completely in error and that I would be at least partially responsible for shipping costs. I explained that it was 4wheelparts that was in error and that I was not willing to pay for any shipping. Then he accused me of “deciding I didn’t like the A/Ts when I got them home” and further suggested that I was trying to cheat the company. I explained that I had ordered correctly and that his refusal to absorb the shipping costs suggested strongly that the wrong tires had been sent either on purpose (to reduce costs as the M/Ts are a more expensive tire) or simply with a disregard for the accuracy of the order since few people would be willing to absorb the shipping costs to make the exchange. Simply put, the old Bait-and-Switch. I informed him that that type of activity amounts to fraud and I simply would not accept being a victim of it.
A heated argument ensued. At one point I asked to speak to his supervisor, and was told “this is as high as you’re going to go”. I insisted that the recording of my order be produced as evidence of who was actually in the wrong. I further stated that if a recording of my placement of the order incorrectly could be played for me, I would immediately apologize and accept my mistake. He told me that only his supervisor was authorized to listen to the recording. I was put on hold for about 4 minutes after which, he came back on the phone and told me that his supervisor had listened to the recording and that I had ordered All-Terrains, but that he was still willing to absorb some of the shipping costs. I was shocked. I asked why he’d be willing to absorb any shipping costs if I was clearly in the wrong, and told him that if he played the recording for me, as proof of an errant order, or emailed me the sound file, 4wheelparts wouldn’t have to absorb anything.
He then told me that 4wheelparts wouldn’t provide the recording without a court order. Again, I was shocked. I restated that if the recording said what he had just told me it did, I would apologize and the issue would be closed. He reiterated the need for a court order. I told him that since a court order was required, I’d have to contact an attorney. He got very upset and told me that “if I mentioned the word lawyer one more time, he was going to hang up.” I further stated, that his refusal to provide the recording that would definitively put the matter to rest, was a guarantee that either there was no recording, or that it had confirmed that I placed the order correctly. In either case, it was clear that we were no longer dealing with a simple mistake, but obvious dishonesty and falsehoods. I explained that I was absolutely not going to pay for any of the shipping charges, nor was I going to accept the errant merchandise. I told him that if I was forced to contact an attorney regarding the matter, that, given his behavior, it would be with allegations of fraud. Upon hearing more mention of lawyers, he said good-bye and hung up.
And so here I am. I have 5 incorrect tires, on 5 wheels, all of which I was charged for well before I had any chance to refuse delivery. I have no interim confirmations of the order and a 4wheelparts simply insists that I ordered incorrectly.
As far as stopping payment, it was taken before shipment. They are already paid for. I wrote Mr. Adler ( The president of 4wheelparts) a 2 page email 2 days ago and have not heard from him. The matter is closed as far as the representatives are concerned. They will NOT let me hear the recording.
Unfortunately, in this case, if I do not hear from Mr. Adler the pursuit will likely have to go beyond that provided by a private attorney, and will likely involve filing additional complaints/claims.
This is 4wheelpasrtswholesale in the US right? and you are based in the US right?
I'm going to call my credit card company tomorrow and see what can be done. Thanks guys!
POS wrote:Since you used your C/Card you can go to your bank and "DISPUTE the TRANSACTION".
Depending on your bank they will have a form that is used for these type of things!!!
It will say something along the lines of-
"the products or goods i recieved do not fit the disription or is not to my satisfaction of the initial purchase".
The bank will then take it on board and sort it out!
THEY do have the ability to contact the supplier and request a copy of any invoices, recordings etc etc. If they do not comply the bank can then pursue it further!
I am not saying this will work ever time but it does work and is another avenue to try first!!!
You can also bring the "Dept of Fair Trading" in on the act! If they believe you have a been ripped they will pursue it for you!!!
BOTH of the above methods will NOT cost YOU any money!!!!!!!!
mudpuppy,
i work for one of the big banks over here in aus, worked in general enquires and credit card enquires almost 3 years now. do as POS said, dispute the transaction first, costs you nothing (not here, should be same US) add copy of your email to dispute form and anything else relevant. then can try department of fair trading or similar, or then lawyer.
mastercard is US company, visa european, shouldn't matter i think where you are that is benefit of uysing credit card to buy things. you can dispute the transactions. expect same for other cards as well.
credit card disputes can be lengthy, up to 45 days i think off top of my head. do it anyway, youv'e got nothing to lose and if you had wanted AT's
you would have ordered AT's. would suggest email to company telling them you plan on not fitting tires and will dispute with your bank, then eamil again once the ball is rolling with bank
Good luck and hope you get those muddies soon, don't back down
cheers
Lance
Just use the A/T's and mall it. 
MY JEEP BUILD
v840 wrote: [Not a shot at Tonka] It's like saying, hell I've got two nuts, I may as well cut one of them off for the hell of it. I ain't using it.[/NAS@T] It's ridiculous!
Yeah, whatever you do don't back down. Since the tape exists, at some point in the dispute they are going to have to produce it or it will be justifiable to assume that it favours you. If they happen to "lose" the recording, that will pretty much settle it in your favour too.
In other words, if they do produce the recording, you're okay, and if they don't, you're okay.
So stick to your guns, buddy. Just don't use the tyres in the meantime
Jason
In other words, if they do produce the recording, you're okay, and if they don't, you're okay.
So stick to your guns, buddy. Just don't use the tyres in the meantime
Jason
I have just received a call from Mr. Greg Adler. He informs me that this mistake will be corrected today and I will not have to pay for any return costs, also I will not have to pay additional monies for the correct tires I ordered. Hopefully this will be the end of the problem. I will be posting the results of this situation as soon as I receive shipment!
mudpuppy wrote:I have just received a call from Mr. Greg Adler. He informs me that this mistake will be corrected today and I will not have to pay for any return costs, also I will not have to pay additional monies for the correct tires I ordered. Hopefully this will be the end of the problem. I will be posting the results of this situation as soon as I receive shipment!
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