thinking of another 4 cylinders! need help!

[def90]

i'm starting to get the itch for more power. curently i have a 4BD1 turbo running around 10/12Psi. Great motor, but i am feeling that i want a little more right foot. my vehicle is a 1986 soft top defender 90, running 35's, etc.

my questions are

1/ will it be economically viable (up to me i suppose)

2/ how much to try and sell the 4BD1 for? - it has low kays, 1990 motor (actually have to check that), put a turbo on it early last year, just had injectors replaced ($750 odd) new garret turbo, manifold, pyro, boost gauge, plumbing cost in excess of $2500. all comes with motor.

3/ what V8 to get, stroke a 3.9 to 4.5 or 5L (my mechanic does these for around $3-4k, 280 to 300 HP relatively easily) and maybe run straight gas? try and sort a gen III out? (i know someone from W.A has one in there fender on here) something else?

4/ what gearbox to run? currently i have a LT77 which is standing up ok so far (only driven on weekends, not thrashed), auto?

5/ ease of conversion of another breed of motor, bellhousing, etc, etc

thinking of potentially entering a few small comps next year, and see how it goes from there.

any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated, as there are so many different ways to tackle this.

cheers

sam

[Hally]

GO THE 4.6V8 I have no problems with mine what so ever It has agreat note to it the only problem is for bush driving they are not economical I would also recomend running a auto behind

[cloughy]

Gen 3, 4L80E is the ultimate

I've driven 4.6's and only 1 ever impressed me, the Eaton M90 ontop may have had something to do with it

[def90]

4L80E? for the simple of us that would be from a ?

[cloughy]

4L80E? for the simple of us that would be from a ?

Seppo pickup, tougher 4 speed auto

[def90]

hey hally is yours a standard rangie 4.6?

[def90]

hey cloughy wats a 'seppo pick up'? and how easily do they mate to LT230?

[cloughy]

Seppo=yank=american=septic tank

Pick up=ute

Easily married with an adaptor

[def90]

but like a chev? or? are they easily sourced over here?

[cloughy]

Yea chev

http://www.automatictransmission.com.au ... ewsId=8611

Buy them at places like eagle auto spares and other seppo importers

[Hobie18]

what about a P76 and an LT95 if your doing comp stuff it would be stronger than the LT77

[shakes]

what about a P76 and an LT95 if your doing comp stuff it would be stronger than the LT77

half the power for the same money as a gen3

[discokid]

Having had a disco with a 4.6 in it and I currently have a defender with a gen 3 Id say if you want horsepower do it once and go Gen 3

You will have to make sure evrything else in the driveline is up to spec

The 4.6 is sluggish and thirsty but is an improvement on a 3.5

The 6lt gen 3 had good power and torque as standard and should make a 90 go. If you want more power from there most race shops these days can get 550hp no problem out of them. This is almost impossible with a 4.6 without supercharging etc

I race a 110 with a gen3 and its competitive

I used a TF727 as adapting was easier and very little conversion work needed to be done. ie the rover adaptor was taken off and a gen 3 adaptor plate of the same thickness put on. Sort the torque convertor and thats basically it

Theres a 90 here in Perth with a donavan 350 block injected and all the good bits. Its pretty good but tricky to drive the rear wants to over take the front all the time. Bloody looks unreal when it takes off and lifts a front wheel! You really need consider how far you want to go with power

[def90]

cheers discokid, new someone had a gen 3 in a fender.

mate do you mind if i ask how much it cost you?, you can pm me if you want.

u have a four speed auto?

550 horses would be more then ample i think, moving from 100 and something hp, anything would be an improvement.

one question though, what is the torque band like? coming from a 4BD1 turbo i have torque from idle off road, not used to having to rev or use a throttle (not that you can in a 4BD1)

anyone have any ideas on how much to ask for the 4BD1

[def90]

cheers hobie18, mate thought about a p76, but want fuel injection and something a little newer, nearly bought a series with a p76 and she flew, couldn't use 1st (too short) took off in second and smoked them not even dropping the clutch!

cheers bud, for the advice.

[Micka]

What about a 5L With a Th700. They can be mated to an LT230 fairly easily. Give you much better gearing than a ZF and stronger.

Or a 350 Chev with a stroker kit out to 383. TH700 and LT230. Bucket loads of torque on tap. Gassing it up is a cinch.

[Slunnie]

Coming back a few steps...

Are you sure you want to comp the 90. I'm out of racing these days, but you have to be prepared to throw it all away if you're going to comp it. Are you prepared to do that to the 90? Also, do you think the 90 is an appropriate wheelbase for comping, especially on steep climbs/decents? I was under the impression that the 90 was sort of your baby rather than something to trash. Thats just the reality.

Back to the motors...

What would I do?

Probably Rover V8, ZF, LT230 for ease
I'm not sure if I'd put an iron block into a shorty.


If you're not a purist like me, then I'd also look at the
Holden alloy V8, TH700, LT230 and
Lexus V8 setup.

[def90]

cheers for replies fellas

slunnie, yeah it is my baby, thinking of just starting off in some smaller comps for a bit and see how she goes. thinking of a rover motor, simply for the ease of install.

disco kid i thought the gen 3 was a 5.7 and LS1's were a 6L?

has anyone on here done a quadcam lexus conversion, they'd be pretty cheap and lots of potential for power from wat i've seen.


anyone got suggections on asking price for the 4BD1 turbo? this would be the factor if i could afford to swap motors.

[def90]

cheers for replies fellas

slunnie, yeah it is my baby, thinking of just starting off in some smaller comps for a bit and see how she goes. thinking of a rover motor, simply for the ease of install.

disco kid i thought the gen 3 was a 5.7 and LS1's were a 6L?

has anyone on here done a quadcam lexus conversion, they'd be pretty cheap and lots of potential for power from wat i've seen.


anyone got suggections on asking price for the 4BD1 turbo? this would be the factor if i could afford to swap motors.

[Gwagensteve]

Nope, LS1 is 5.7 litre, LS2 is 6.0 litre.

Gen 3 refers to the architecture of the engine - so all LS series motors ( and all the "truck" versions of this motor - 5.3, 6.0 etc from chevy pickups/suv's) are all "Gen 3" motors.

Steve.

[discokid]

this is probably cheaper than a 4.6 and will have heaps of power for a 90

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=8036&latest=1

cheers

[andrew e]

I make you a deal, get your 90 to me, and i'll put in a sweet 3.9 disco v8 and auto, if you let me keep your current motor and box. Drive in drive out.

Personally i think your nuts. If it was me, i'd take it to a diesel tuner and fit a nasty big hair drier, LPG and tweak the hell out of the fuel pump. Look at what they get out of the 4.2 patrol turbo diesels, 120-150kw at the wheels is fairly easy. The only advantage a v8 would have then would be the weight.


Andy

[cloughy]

I make you a deal, get your 90 to me, and i'll put in a sweet 3.9 disco v8 and auto, if you let me keep your current motor and box. Drive in drive out.

Personally i think your nuts. If it was me, i'd take it to a diesel tuner and fit a nasty big hair drier, LPG and tweak the hell out of the fuel pump. Look at what they get out of the 4.2 patrol turbo diesels, 120-150kw at the wheels is fairly easy. The only advantage a v8 would have then would be the weight.


Andy

Yep and with a 2500rpm rev range, its about as flash as a cow pie

[KiwiBacon]

There's an easy and cheap fix that'll stop you wanting a V8.

Step 1.
Fit intercooler.
Step 2.
Double the boost.
Step 3.
Adjust fuel till you hit 750 deg at full load.

I'm at 2&3 above but haven't yet fitted my intercooler. In a 2.3T fultime 4wd rangie it has 4 wheel traction issues in the wet and can spin up the rear wheels in second in the dry.

A new diesel hilux can just beat me uphill, but they're almost half a ton lighter. The intercooler will fix that.

If you don't want to do the above, make sure you sell it to someone who will.

[def90]

don't think i can get a heap more power out of the old girl and keep it on the safeside. could get lpg injection but no where for tanks.

tried bigger turbos but no good, they don't spool up quick enough, as cloughy said, max revs is 3k, the motors outta legs after about 2,500 anyway

running 12/14psi as well, fuels screwed up and have an intercooler (not a biggy though)

they're just a good old torquey chugger, not meant for acceleration.

$3650 for a new 6L sounds dam tempting, although it'd probably cost that again to fit it up, parts, auto, etc

wat manual options would there be? would a LT95 be strong enough for 6L?

anyone want to make offers on the 4BD1?

thanks for offer on the coversion andrew but want more then a 3.9 i think, they're still a bit sluggish

[cloughy]

I'm at 2&3 above but haven't yet fitted my intercooler. In a 2.3T fultime 4wd rangie it has 4 wheel traction issues in the wet and can spin up the rear wheels in second in the dry.

This has bugged me for ages, if your loosing traction, it will be the front wheels that spin and one at that, not a big deal with anything with a little more grunt than a rover motor, they dont light up the rear wheels

And they're a pain to drive, with no rev range, great tourers, and ok for lugging around the bush, but when you need to clean the tyres, 3200rpm just wont cut it

[cloughy]

don't think i can get a heap more power out of the old girl and keep it on the safeside. could get lpg injection but no where for tanks.

tried bigger turbos but no good, they don't spool up quick enough, as cloughy said, max revs is 3k, the motors outta legs after about 2,500 anyway

running 12/14psi as well, fuels screwed up and have an intercooler (not a biggy though)

they're just a good old torquey chugger, not meant for acceleration.

$3650 for a new 6L sounds dam tempting, although it'd probably cost that again to fit it up, parts, auto, etc

wat manual options would there be? would a LT95 be strong enough for 6L?

anyone want to make offers on the 4BD1?

thanks for offer on the coversion andrew but want more then a 3.9 i think, they're still a bit sluggish

LT95 with tapered roller transfer case, would be the only option

Or patrol 5 speed....more money, not THAT great, but the overdrive is a winner

[def90]

as it appears there is a holden 5L and turbo 700 4 speed and transfer (standard rangie, would that be a lt230?) for sale on here as of today.

thoughts on this as a ready to go solution?

[cloughy]

as it appears there is a holden 5L and turbo 700 4 speed and transfer (standard rangie, would that be a lt230?) for sale on here as of today.

thoughts on this as a ready to go solution?

most likely a cut off LT95

Just needs a harrop crank 355 and a tune

[KiwiBacon]

I'm at 2&3 above but haven't yet fitted my intercooler. In a 2.3T fultime 4wd rangie it has 4 wheel traction issues in the wet and can spin up the rear wheels in second in the dry.

This has bugged me for ages, if your loosing traction, it will be the front wheels that spin and one at that, not a big deal with anything with a little more grunt than a rover motor, they dont light up the rear wheels

And they're a pain to drive, with no rev range, great tourers, and ok for lugging around the bush, but when you need to clean the tyres, 3200rpm just wont cut it

I have no problem cleaning the tyres, I've got 15psi boost by 1500rpm and that's where tyres start to howl. With the right tune they pull until the early 3000rpm's. Stock rev limit is 3600rpm.

To spin up the rear wheels on tarmac starts with a corner, the extra load on the rears is enough to break them (aka both of them) loose first.
In the wet or on gravel in an (approximately) straight line they drift mostly evenly.

Yes bigger turbos on a diesel are stupid. You need a small exhaust housing to create enough boost, attempts at installing bigger exhaust housings to reduce backpressure are counter-productive and usually the work of people who work on petrols too much.
I have both boost and backpressure gauges on my engine, I've experimented with a few diff turbos, variable vane and compounds are next.

The stock fuel pump should be capable of delivering around 120cc per thousand shots just by winding out the screw. That'll give you around 600Nm.

Do not put LPG into any diesel you care about. The detonation will kill it. Diesel and air is all you need.