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engine lacking power between 2-3000rpm-esp hill starts
Moderator: Tiny
engine lacking power between 2-3000rpm-esp hill starts
hi first time poster.....i have a feroza el3 1990 model.when driving the engine lacks the ability to rev normally.also on the flat max speed is about 65kms/hr.hill starts are a dream...just don't happen at all.i have replaced the spark plugs/leads .the dizzy cap and coil are fine.did the efi fault test.all appears ok???? whilst carrying out further testing the engine conked out.the engine now cranks but won't start.undid the fuel line on top of filter...the fuel did not come out thick and fast....seemed little pressure in system...........could this all point to the fuel pump being stuffed.............don't want to spend more money unnecessarily............plse help me if you can.p.s. does anyone know a good moblie mechanic in sydney...name and number if you know one plse....not sure if this info can be posted here???????
Assuming you have the fuel supply line off ( its the one that runs from the fuel filter on the firewall to the rear of the fuel rail ) fuel should pour from this line.
However it will only do it for a few seconds when the key is first turned to ignition or when the engine is running - which is a very bad time to have fuel spraying around the engine bay.
IF you cant get flow - it could be the fuel filter, disconnect the line at the filters bottom and retry
Fuel pressure should be about 250kPa above intake manifold pressure, a decent mechanic will have a pressure gauge and extended banjo bolt to tap into the fuel supply system and measure the pressure.
However it will only do it for a few seconds when the key is first turned to ignition or when the engine is running - which is a very bad time to have fuel spraying around the engine bay.
IF you cant get flow - it could be the fuel filter, disconnect the line at the filters bottom and retry
Fuel pressure should be about 250kPa above intake manifold pressure, a decent mechanic will have a pressure gauge and extended banjo bolt to tap into the fuel supply system and measure the pressure.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
Hi for my 20 cents worth, you probably don't provide enough information for anything like a reasonable online diagnosis, from a non professional. I'm one of the more practical types though, and if the motor seems not to be misfiring, doesn't indicate a blown cylinder gasket etc, and appears to produce normal power, until the problem becomes apparent, (and something has made you suspect fuel supply) I'd look at disconnecting the fuel feed to the motor, winding the beast over, to check whether you are getting adequate fuel flow. If fuel isn't squirting everywhere while you hit the starter, suspect the pump. You can likely confirm this by 'ahem' bypassing the fuel system with a short piece of fuel hose, gravity feed wise, from the injector inlet back to a small container, assuming you understand the syphoning procedure? If the motor appears to run well, you know you have a problem with either the fuel pump, or a fuel hose. Gee ,that sounds complicated, can anyone else elaborate.
There's a fuel pump test point in the diagnostic plug. Short it out and the pump will run continously, then measure the amount of fuel it pumps for a given time period and compare it to the specs in the Service Manual
http://www.users.on.net/~murcod/feroza/manual/
http://www.warfs.org/content/view/16/47/
http://www.users.on.net/~murcod/feroza/manual/
http://www.warfs.org/content/view/16/47/
David
You can't test a EFI system this way, carby yes, EFI no way, you need heaps more pressure than a gravity system will supply.......Tansy wrote: You can likely confirm this by 'ahem' bypassing the fuel system with a short piece of fuel hose, gravity feed wise, from the injector inlet back to a small container, assuming you understand the syphoning procedure?
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
Well thank you, I'll remember that. I did mention I was just handy and not a mechanic. (S) I did though suggest testing the fuel pump output, not the efi, because i wasn't actually sure whether the vehicle was carb or efi.
My suggestion of gravity feed fuel supply as an alternative to check on supply etc should be read in the same light. Obviously there could be many more
issues responsible for the problems described.
My suggestion of gravity feed fuel supply as an alternative to check on supply etc should be read in the same light. Obviously there could be many more
issues responsible for the problems described.
MM...I'll look into your assertion that gravity won't feed efi. I appreciate that it mightn't supply the fuel needs of a high performance motor at medium to full revs, but I imagine it would still get you home in an emergency.
It should therefore be useful for test purposes... ie if the motor doesn't cut out or otherwise misbehave during a sedate 10 t0 80 kmph, per hour test drive, you could assume ignition, compression and efi function are reasonable? Let's face it, the fuel pump if suspected is the easiest item to replace.
It should therefore be useful for test purposes... ie if the motor doesn't cut out or otherwise misbehave during a sedate 10 t0 80 kmph, per hour test drive, you could assume ignition, compression and efi function are reasonable? Let's face it, the fuel pump if suspected is the easiest item to replace.
Tansy, your suggestion would work fine for a carb, in fact the vehicle should run normally, early cars all used gravity feed. Have also heard stories of people using the washer bottle and pump... when the engine starts running rough, press the washer button to add some more fuel to the carby bowl. Should work in theory, but havn't done it myself 
On the EFI side, you would be lucky to get the injectors to drip with a gravity feed, so as a limp home its just not a workable option.
Pressurizing the fuel tank with compressed air, with all the extra lines blocked might work, but you would need to put ratchet straps around the tank to try and stop it swelling / splitting under the pressure - so its a last resort and your certainly not going to get anything like normal engine operation
As for the pump being the easiest to replace - well yes as long as its the problem, but they are by no means cheap so back to where we started off - test for flow ( free ) and then test for pressure.
On the EFI side, you would be lucky to get the injectors to drip with a gravity feed, so as a limp home its just not a workable option.
Pressurizing the fuel tank with compressed air, with all the extra lines blocked might work, but you would need to put ratchet straps around the tank to try and stop it swelling / splitting under the pressure - so its a last resort and your certainly not going to get anything like normal engine operation
As for the pump being the easiest to replace - well yes as long as its the problem, but they are by no means cheap so back to where we started off - test for flow ( free ) and then test for pressure.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
sorry about the other post....will keep it to this one only.............managed to get hold of a compression tester and timing light.timing was fine.the compression though a different story.i had no compression on all cylinders.....i mean not one ounce of compression............and the tester was used just before i borrowed it and i know it's ok.also when i removed the spark plugs they seemed to have fuel on them........i guess this is standard if fuel is getting thru but the engine does'nt run............can anyone suggest what could be causing this.....ie head gasket blown................the radiator water is just that........not milky.............
No compression on ANY CYLINDER..... that's extremely odd. Without trying to be a smartarse you do know how to do a compression test ?
When you wind the motor over without any plugs in it does it make "sucking and blowing" noises ?
You said you have spark so its not a broken timing belt, no oil in the water - what about water in the oil ?
Iit would be unusual for a head gasket to fail on every cylinder.....
When you wind the motor over without any plugs in it does it make "sucking and blowing" noises ?
You said you have spark so its not a broken timing belt, no oil in the water - what about water in the oil ?
Iit would be unusual for a head gasket to fail on every cylinder.....
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
i did the compression test as per the manual.basically remove fuel pump/injector relays....spark plug leads/plugs.............put the compression tester into each cylinder spark plug hole and cranked the engine over (at least 300rpm is required) with full throttle as per the manual................and that's the results i got -nil pressure...............though if i put my hand over the hole it felt like suction and blowing..........hmmmmmmm. i don't want to pull the engine to bits cause i ain't got enough of an idea on how to do it without causing more problems
What is the mileage of the vehicle? When was the cam belt last replaced?
While it might not be broken, ie you still have ignition...if the belt has stripped several lugs, your valve timing and ignition timing will be way out. You'll still produce spark, but it wont be occurring at the correct time. Compression would also be affected, ie you would have open valves at top dead centre on the compression stroke, resulting in no compression at the tester.
While it might not be broken, ie you still have ignition...if the belt has stripped several lugs, your valve timing and ignition timing will be way out. You'll still produce spark, but it wont be occurring at the correct time. Compression would also be affected, ie you would have open valves at top dead centre on the compression stroke, resulting in no compression at the tester.
Hmmmm...... can't fault your logic Tansy it would need to have gone quite a few teeth but its certainly worth a look and its free...
big4bee4 -
The "F" on the top timing sprocket should be pointing straight up ( there's a small indicating "V" on the front of the rocker cover whilst on the crank sprocket there is a dimple that aligns with a pointer on the case at about the 4oclock position. Hope that's understandable.
Have you downloaded the manuals from http://www.warfs.org/content/view/16/47/ ? Will probably help you and if you have to get a mechanic will help him,
Its just very strange to find a motor with absolutely no compression on any cylinder - it just seems too obvious for it to be a completely dead motor.
big4bee4 -
The "F" on the top timing sprocket should be pointing straight up ( there's a small indicating "V" on the front of the rocker cover whilst on the crank sprocket there is a dimple that aligns with a pointer on the case at about the 4oclock position. Hope that's understandable.
Have you downloaded the manuals from http://www.warfs.org/content/view/16/47/ ? Will probably help you and if you have to get a mechanic will help him,
Its just very strange to find a motor with absolutely no compression on any cylinder - it just seems too obvious for it to be a completely dead motor.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
how about this then
the air usually goes in thru the air filter and out of the exhaust. on my engine it goes in thru the exhaust out thru the air filter????? this is happening 100% and i ain't imagining it. what do you think?
Its probably blindingly obvious - but I'm struggling to explain what's wrong......
When the F mark is aligned is No. 1 Cylinder at TDC ?
Remove No. 1 plug and use a probe through the plug hole to test the pistons 'UP".
looking at the crank pulley what direction is it cranking ?
When the F mark is aligned is No. 1 Cylinder at TDC ?
Remove No. 1 plug and use a probe through the plug hole to test the pistons 'UP".
looking at the crank pulley what direction is it cranking ?
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
I haven't read through all the latest replies (so apologies if it's been mentioned) but I do recall a Feroza having similar issues and it turned out to be the keyway in the crank pulley was worn? (or something similar) The timing pulley could move around a bit and cause havoc with the valve timing.
David
i did find the bottom pulley(is it that the crank or timing pulley) bolt to be loose........when i got to that stage after a mechanic had a quick glance he said that i would find the valves are most probably bent.so i did not look any further.my roza has been sitting in the garage gathering dust!i got to the stage where i didn't want to spend more money on the roza than what it's worth.....................i think that the bolt could have been loose enough that it could cause this problem.......that is if it takes only very small movements to cause the engine to have probs.with it being loose also it may have had enough play to cause the keyway to be damaged..............i'll give that a go!............................................... also i had the timing belt fitted by a mechanic.............he did say that these engines in the feroza did have some additional clearance in the valves so if the timing belt had problems the valves would not get damaged................could this be true??????? i have heard of engines having more tolerances than normal ????????????????????????????????????
Whilst the crank bolt shouldn't be loose the issue is more does the crank pulley have "slop" in the circular direction?
Use a socket on the crank bolt and rock the crank backwards and forwards ( plugs out ) and ensure the timing pulley moves without a "delay".
H series engines will bend valves with incorrect valve timing, but it takes more than a few degrees to do it so there would have to be a substantial timing problem.
When was the timing bely changed - before the problem or after ?
When was the crank bolt loose - before or after ?
The order in which things ere done / found is very important - I'm beginning to loose track of what happened / who did what and when.
Use a socket on the crank bolt and rock the crank backwards and forwards ( plugs out ) and ensure the timing pulley moves without a "delay".
H series engines will bend valves with incorrect valve timing, but it takes more than a few degrees to do it so there would have to be a substantial timing problem.
When was the timing bely changed - before the problem or after ?
When was the crank bolt loose - before or after ?
The order in which things ere done / found is very important - I'm beginning to loose track of what happened / who did what and when.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
ok. first of all the engine had like a flat spot at around 2-3000rpm . changed spark plugs/leads/coil .tested efi system all was ok.checked timing-was ok. engine then decided not to run.i had been adjusting the engine idle when engine decided not to run.still had the flat spot. checked compression-had no reading.found air circulation thru engine opposite from what it should be ie air into exhaust out at air filter.when checking timing belt found bottom pulley bolt loose.have not tightened yet as have fear of further doing damage.when i did align markings on the timing belt found there to be no slop in the circular direction.timing belt was changed about 2 years ago.don't know how long the crank bolt has been loose.I STILL NEED HELP WITH MY CAR.............STILL NO WORK..........................ANY SUGGESTIONS WHY THE AIR CIRCULATION IS BACK TO FRONT ?????????????????????????
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