Those that have been following other threads probably know by now that there arn't a lot of options out there for Daihatsu lockers.
However after some tips and searching K&S Tuning in Germany can apparently do front and rear Vacuum operated lockers for Feroza's and Rockies.
Please note - I havn't see these lockers in action, but my research indicates that their design is quite workable, and in fact uses a similar principal to other OEM lockers.
The catch however is cost and the PITA factor. You have to send them the diff center to be modified. The good news is that the same axles, banjos etc can be used - its still all Daihatsu.
So 1200+ Euros for the mod, freight 200 euros, duties $250 dollars, getting it fitted $250 ( guess ) so your looking at $2750AU each ( and that's probably too low. ).
IF you havn't spare diffs then the vehicles off the road for 6+ weeks...
After spending hours with my mate the "diff expert" ( being serious ) and my spare diff - he believes he can also do the same mods locally, which appeals to me more ( absolutely no slight on K&S, they are just too far away and the Euro is too costly ).
For a one off it should turn out to be a little less expensive. but once a prototype's been done the cost should come down. I am absolutely certain that they are never going to be as cheap as ARB units - but then it is a Daihatsu, your not talking huge numbers and it will always be a mod to an existing diff.
So there's the story so far, you can get Daihatsu lockers they are just f#$&%^$ expensive.
At this stage I'm not going into the Daihatsu locker business but don't minding hearing from anyone that's got the coin burning a hole in their pockets. Once it works, the diff guy might be convinced to do a run but that will be between whoever and him.
So there it is - lockers are expensive, you could easily spend as much as your Daihatsu's worth to get them
Will keep you posted - oops sorry it will be a front diff first as my rears locked already.
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Feroza Lockers
Moderator: Tiny
Feroza Lockers
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
OK - the next installment,
Received another email from K&S, oops can only do a rear locker.
Would have been kinda pissed off if I had decided to spend the $$ instead of the local solution.
Spare front diff now at the diff place, but as its Christmas / New Year there won't be any progress for awhile.
Received another email from K&S, oops can only do a rear locker.
Would have been kinda pissed off if I had decided to spend the $$ instead of the local solution.
Spare front diff now at the diff place, but as its Christmas / New Year there won't be any progress for awhile.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
More work than doing a "new diff centre" - have already looked, measured and priced.
!00 Series Cruiser is closest but would then have to make a inner bearing for the leg side, new driveshafts etc etc... and match ratio's ($$$) and then buy a locker
Would have to make a complete new housing for the rear diff and as its bigger than the front it would decrease ground clearance. Beside the rear is only a 2 pinion centre IIRC so its hardly worth it. Splines are different etc etc. And of course its not a locker so no point
The new centre will be a "windowless" 4 pinion unit using the original crownwheel, pinion, housing side gears and two lots of spider gears. Easier to start from a lump of steel.
!00 Series Cruiser is closest but would then have to make a inner bearing for the leg side, new driveshafts etc etc... and match ratio's ($$$) and then buy a locker
Would have to make a complete new housing for the rear diff and as its bigger than the front it would decrease ground clearance. Beside the rear is only a 2 pinion centre IIRC so its hardly worth it. Splines are different etc etc. And of course its not a locker so no point
The new centre will be a "windowless" 4 pinion unit using the original crownwheel, pinion, housing side gears and two lots of spider gears. Easier to start from a lump of steel.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
Yes am making a locking, 4 pinion, windowless front diff from scratch with the help of my mate the "Diff Expert". its not as huge a job as you might think if you have access to large machines etc... and we will be reusing the side and spider gears.
As for pics - its just an airlocked - composite Toyota rear axle under a Feroza, if you didn't know what a Feroza or Toyota axle looked like you wouldn't know the difference - which is what I wanted......
Will be doing the "yearly maintenance" soon, so if I can find the camera I'll take a pic, but its not that interesting really - until you lock the diff and find out what a Feroza is missing.
As for pics - its just an airlocked - composite Toyota rear axle under a Feroza, if you didn't know what a Feroza or Toyota axle looked like you wouldn't know the difference - which is what I wanted......
Will be doing the "yearly maintenance" soon, so if I can find the camera I'll take a pic, but its not that interesting really - until you lock the diff and find out what a Feroza is missing.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
After you lock the front you know you'll finally have to get the blower and engine sorted or maybe you'll just have to get another LJ 
Yes - prefer to spend the $$ with someone who I can visit and divide the work up with. The cover, fork, actuator ring, pins and actuator are mine ( might try an al casting - being dying to try my hand at one ) whilst the gears, clutch and centre will probably be his.
The blower is dead, turbo is the go now. Having remade the blower drive / mount twice already I'm sick of the sight of it - and am NOT doing it a third time.
And whilst time has softened my love / hate relationship with LJ50's, I've grown used to not having "a little sleep" every time I drive and rather appreciate top speeds in excess of 75kph....
Still the ring a ding ding brings a tear to my smoke filled eyes.....
The blower is dead, turbo is the go now. Having remade the blower drive / mount twice already I'm sick of the sight of it - and am NOT doing it a third time.
And whilst time has softened my love / hate relationship with LJ50's, I've grown used to not having "a little sleep" every time I drive and rather appreciate top speeds in excess of 75kph....
Still the ring a ding ding brings a tear to my smoke filled eyes.....
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
No - the spare front diff is barely apart let alone CAD drawn. 
But when it moves a bit further will post pics etc, but don't hold your breath its going to take awhile as both the "diff expert" and myself are doing as an "interesting project" not as a commercial job.
As for the rear - if you have a widetrack just put a toyota rear end in - MUCH stronger.
But when it moves a bit further will post pics etc, but don't hold your breath its going to take awhile as both the "diff expert" and myself are doing as an "interesting project" not as a commercial job.
As for the rear - if you have a widetrack just put a toyota rear end in - MUCH stronger.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
If Sportrac translates to Feroza then the obvious difference is that widetracks have large bolt on flares
As you can see on the pic of AJ's Feroza and mine in the background the flare s are about 100mm wide per side.
I am running a HiAce housing, with Hilux centre, ARB air locker and custom axles. You can run a straight Hilux banjo as well - I had a HiAce one so that's what got used. The key to the whole swap is that 5.285:1 ratio is available for the Hilux centre to match the Feroza front. IIRC the widetrack Feroza axle is just fractionally wider than the toyota but wheels and tyres can easily modify this. My front is fractionally wider than a widetrack as this configuration give a little more straight line stability - but that's another story ( long ).
Hilux has six studs so you need to redrill or remake axles to suit. HiAce has 5 studs so its easier to rotate the bolt pattern.
As you can see on the pic of AJ's Feroza and mine in the background the flare s are about 100mm wide per side.
I am running a HiAce housing, with Hilux centre, ARB air locker and custom axles. You can run a straight Hilux banjo as well - I had a HiAce one so that's what got used. The key to the whole swap is that 5.285:1 ratio is available for the Hilux centre to match the Feroza front. IIRC the widetrack Feroza axle is just fractionally wider than the toyota but wheels and tyres can easily modify this. My front is fractionally wider than a widetrack as this configuration give a little more straight line stability - but that's another story ( long ).
Hilux has six studs so you need to redrill or remake axles to suit. HiAce has 5 studs so its easier to rotate the bolt pattern.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
lol so would it just be better to get both axels and make one up out of the 2Just wondering - the 1200 EURO's that K&S want - how does that compare with the price of a Hilux diff, new crownwheel & pinion, bearings, pinion spacer, locker and all the work ? I'd do the research first, silly to do it the hard way unless you have to. Putting in a toyota diff requires a lot of work when compared with the K&S solution and you will need access to some engineering facilities otherwise "your dreaming".
Having said that a toyota based solution is MUCH stronger, but if your not geared I wonder if its a problem ? Don't hear of broken stock diffs - but then locked ones arn't common so........ ?
You actually have options - you could use a single Hilux diff, IIRC there are a number of widths available and a number of centre options. For what its worth, the guy who does my diffs ( Matt - "the expert" ) tells me its a "large bearing" one which is good. Its also fitted with a solid pinion spacer - not the factory crush sleeve. You obviously need to make sure that whatever centre you run is compatible with the locker your going to fit.
The hilux is a six bolt axle so you could just run Hilux wheels on the rear, which is strange but VERY easy and would save heaps of effort, or redrill the axle flanges / drums to five stud. I have checked and its possible - the holes don't overlap but you would need to check the toyota axle flange diameter to be certain. I have custom axles so its something I havn't actually done - but its not rocket science.
The toyota drums are about as useless as the Feroza ones, so if you have time on your side and the facilities - i'd look at a disc conversion. Its task #4274 on my list.......
You will need to make new spring perches and bump stop pads, adapt the tailshaft ( i initially used an adapter disc to mate the shortened Feroza shaft to the toyota flange ), redo brake lines, make up handbrake cables, get new U bolts and nuts ( hilux axle diameter is bigger ), modify the bottom spring plates to suit the U bolts and move the lower shock mount a little.
No matter which way you go its going to cost.........
Having said that a toyota based solution is MUCH stronger, but if your not geared I wonder if its a problem ? Don't hear of broken stock diffs - but then locked ones arn't common so........ ?
You actually have options - you could use a single Hilux diff, IIRC there are a number of widths available and a number of centre options. For what its worth, the guy who does my diffs ( Matt - "the expert" ) tells me its a "large bearing" one which is good. Its also fitted with a solid pinion spacer - not the factory crush sleeve. You obviously need to make sure that whatever centre you run is compatible with the locker your going to fit.
The hilux is a six bolt axle so you could just run Hilux wheels on the rear, which is strange but VERY easy and would save heaps of effort, or redrill the axle flanges / drums to five stud. I have checked and its possible - the holes don't overlap but you would need to check the toyota axle flange diameter to be certain. I have custom axles so its something I havn't actually done - but its not rocket science.
The toyota drums are about as useless as the Feroza ones, so if you have time on your side and the facilities - i'd look at a disc conversion. Its task #4274 on my list.......
You will need to make new spring perches and bump stop pads, adapt the tailshaft ( i initially used an adapter disc to mate the shortened Feroza shaft to the toyota flange ), redo brake lines, make up handbrake cables, get new U bolts and nuts ( hilux axle diameter is bigger ), modify the bottom spring plates to suit the U bolts and move the lower shock mount a little.
No matter which way you go its going to cost.........
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
This is only an out there suggestion, not 100% in saying it will or could work and things would have to be confirmed. A 90 Series Prado has a wheeltrack in the rear nearly the same as an F310. They possibly may be a fraction wider in the housing themselves though, but they are wider then a Hilux. An RV Prado is listed to have the same wheeltrack (GXL/VX is wider), but this all changes with different wheel offsets/widths, so isn't a pure indication of the housing width itself. The bit that would also need to be confirned is wether a 5.285:1 R&P can be put in one. I know a rear of a Prado is an 8" centre and takes the same Locker as a Hilux, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the housing and R&P are the same. Never had the need to pull the rear diff out of my Prado, so never really looked.MightyMouse wrote:The hilux is a six bolt axle so you could just run Hilux wheels on the rear, which is strange but VERY easy and would save heaps of effort, or redrill the axle flanges / drums to five stud. I have checked and its possible - the holes don't overlap but you would need to check the toyota axle flange diameter to be certain. I have custom axles so its something I havn't actually done - but its not rocket science.
The toyota drums are about as useless as the Feroza ones, so if you have time on your side and the facilities - i'd look at a disc conversion. Its task #4274 on my list.......
With this is you'd actually get rear disc brakes that actually work, but you'd have to run 16" wheels.
The biggest issue i see with running 2 different stud patterns is spare tyres. You'd either need 2 spares, or run one spare with one of those spacers that changes the stud pattern.
If God did not intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?
r0ck_m0nkey, yes the Hilux pattern does have that disadvantage - thats why I did axles..... but it is a LOT easier to do.
As for crownwheel and pinion ???? I know its a toyota ratio but others ??
I also had an ulterior motive.... there are also higher ratios available 5.7:1 and more IIRC - just like to keep my options open.
And of course toyota and hatsu are ( were ??? ) tied together so there's still a family relationship
As for crownwheel and pinion ???? I know its a toyota ratio but others ??
I also had an ulterior motive.... there are also higher ratios available 5.7:1 and more IIRC - just like to keep my options open.
And of course toyota and hatsu are ( were ??? ) tied together so there's still a family relationship
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
I think, Mitsubishi had the ratio available in certain model Pajeros also.MightyMouse wrote:As for crownwheel and pinion ???? I know its a toyota ratio but others ??
The only reason i suggested Prado is it could work. Although i can't confirm wether the diff housings and crown and pinion is the same as a Hilux, even though it is an 8" centre. Reason i say this, is the front of a Prado is a 7.5" centre and takes the same Locker as an IFS Hilux/4Runner, but otherwise it's a completey different diff and nothing else is interchangable. So the rear may be the same, it may not. It can help alleviate the disc brake conversion issue but the stud pattern would have to be looked at.
Although i am guessing, you're not going to get a Prado housing thrown at you cheaply as easily as you can an old Hilux housing.
If God did not intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?
I own a 95 Series Prado and have had a both an N130 and N61 4Runner before. The running gear is very similiar, but not the same. Only an N185 Surf is the same.cj wrote:The early Prado has the same running gear as the Fourunner/Surf AFAIK.
If God did not intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?
You live and learn
Sorry for my ignorance on these matters but is a Prado leaf sprung ?
If so its another option but, seems to be about the same as a Lux unit in terms of work - and possibly a lot more expensive to source - and you need the right model, you get discs but the bolt patterns still wrong etc etc.
The key factors IMO are the ratio and width - the rest is just work........
Sorry for my ignorance on these matters but is a Prado leaf sprung ?
If so its another option but, seems to be about the same as a Lux unit in terms of work - and possibly a lot more expensive to source - and you need the right model, you get discs but the bolt patterns still wrong etc etc.
The key factors IMO are the ratio and width - the rest is just work........
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
The 90 Series is Coil, but if going to the extent of swapping an axle, welding a set of spring pads on and grinding off all the link/coil mounts shouldn't be much of a drama. They typically only have 4.1's and 4.3's in them so you'd still need to do a ratio change, which i can't say for 100% are identical to a Hilux, even though the same locker fits.MightyMouse wrote:Sorry for my ignorance on these matters but is a Prado leaf sprung ?
If God did not intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?
Have u guys ever considered a torsen diff front and rear?
I know of a Oz company that makes custom diffs.
Coz currently we're trying to organise a group buy for front diffs for the Nissan Pulsar GTi-R.
Modena Engineering Australia P/L
Factory 2/11 Daniel Drive
CARRUM DOWNS VIC 3201
AUSTRALIA
Tel: +61 3 9782 4420
Fax: +61 3 9782 4260
I think they are willing to do a production run with a minimum order of 10 diffs.
I know of a Oz company that makes custom diffs.
Coz currently we're trying to organise a group buy for front diffs for the Nissan Pulsar GTi-R.
Modena Engineering Australia P/L
Factory 2/11 Daniel Drive
CARRUM DOWNS VIC 3201
AUSTRALIA
Tel: +61 3 9782 4420
Fax: +61 3 9782 4260
I think they are willing to do a production run with a minimum order of 10 diffs.
My RIG sucks big time.
If its the torsen diff I am fimilar with ( gear driven ) then they would be a good unit.
My particular problem is that I want a front locker only and I suspect most others would do rear and probably stop there... Any idea how much they charge ?
Still by all means get your heads together and see how many you can chase up. If you get the numbers would be able to assist with the Melbourne end logistics.
By the time you get rears organised, who knows my front might be done and then you have all the options available.
My particular problem is that I want a front locker only and I suspect most others would do rear and probably stop there... Any idea how much they charge ?
Still by all means get your heads together and see how many you can chase up. If you get the numbers would be able to assist with the Melbourne end logistics.
By the time you get rears organised, who knows my front might be done and then you have all the options available.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
Had a phone call from Matt tonight asking to borrow some of my sidegears in relation to your front locker.MightyMouse wrote:What gears ? - I have no idea what your talking about cjcj wrote: If I drop the gears of to Matt
[quote="4WD Stuff"]
I haven't quoted Grimbo because nobody takes him seriously :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: [/quote]
I haven't quoted Grimbo because nobody takes him seriously :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: [/quote]
Ah - it all comes together.....
I called in today to see how things were going, and we got to doodling on the whiteboard and the subject of the operating ring and matching hub from an ARB zook looker had a real workout. - along with 20,000 others, most of which weren't practical.
Good to see his gears are turning.
Now that you have semi deserted the IFS camp it looks like its just up to me to keep the Sierra's in line so a front lockers even more necessary.
I called in today to see how things were going, and we got to doodling on the whiteboard and the subject of the operating ring and matching hub from an ARB zook looker had a real workout. - along with 20,000 others, most of which weren't practical.
Good to see his gears are turning.
Now that you have semi deserted the IFS camp it looks like its just up to me to keep the Sierra's in line so a front lockers even more necessary.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
Some feedback for those who might be wondering if the front locker is so much BS or have been trying to follow cj's and my cryptic comments.......
Progress is being made ( slowly... ) As it turns out the Feroza front diff is almost identical to a Sierra rear ( not sure which one ... ) EXCEPT that the Feroza uses 12 bolts to hold on the crownwheel not seven like the zook with a few other minor differences that mean it cant be interchanged.
Well so what ? It basically means that whilst we can't use a complete ARB Sierra airlocker we can use the internals i.e. sidegears, spider gears, cross pins, dogclutch, actuation system etc and copy its dimensions with only a few changes. The locking system as used by ARB is MUCH better than other designs and provides a very positive and load resistant engagement.
All the other designs we looked at could be made to work BUT had limitations. ARB airlockers are well thought out units.
The sidegears on the zook have a smaller / different spline but as the Feroza is bigger zook sidegears have been softened / resplined / rehardened to suit.
This was a MAJOR stroke of luck, the Feroza spline is uncommon and Matt ( Total Traction Drivelines - the resident diff expert ) has an associate that has the correct broach ( he apparently found it after it was thrown out..
)
So the housing and cover plate need to be made, but the expensive to manufacture complex internals can all be bought off the shelf. Its not going to be as difficult as it initially seemed.
The battle continues.......
Progress is being made ( slowly... ) As it turns out the Feroza front diff is almost identical to a Sierra rear ( not sure which one ... ) EXCEPT that the Feroza uses 12 bolts to hold on the crownwheel not seven like the zook with a few other minor differences that mean it cant be interchanged.
Well so what ? It basically means that whilst we can't use a complete ARB Sierra airlocker we can use the internals i.e. sidegears, spider gears, cross pins, dogclutch, actuation system etc and copy its dimensions with only a few changes. The locking system as used by ARB is MUCH better than other designs and provides a very positive and load resistant engagement.
All the other designs we looked at could be made to work BUT had limitations. ARB airlockers are well thought out units.
The sidegears on the zook have a smaller / different spline but as the Feroza is bigger zook sidegears have been softened / resplined / rehardened to suit.
This was a MAJOR stroke of luck, the Feroza spline is uncommon and Matt ( Total Traction Drivelines - the resident diff expert ) has an associate that has the correct broach ( he apparently found it after it was thrown out..
)So the housing and cover plate need to be made, but the expensive to manufacture complex internals can all be bought off the shelf. Its not going to be as difficult as it initially seemed.
The battle continues.......
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
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