guys i need your advice

[dow50r]

Wheelers...you sell a 5 speed gearbox from your 3f 80 series, which has been a daily driver, with a guarantee it works and works well. You tell the buyer it is possible to fit it in behind his 1hz using a v8 holden or 3f clutch plate, as you know of one which had been done previous.
The buyer finds the front shaft is shorter than the 1hz, and makes the judgement call to machine the end off the input shaft and add an extension, without removing it from the gearbox. Nothing is discussed till its done, then when the box doesnt perform to the buyers standards, it is give me my monry back you ripoff. You guaranteed it would fit and was a good box. Should i give him the dollars after receiving the box back

[MissDrew]

I wouldn't as he has "changed it"

I'd say to him to get you a new input shaft and then you'd give him a full refund.

Would be different if you had spoken and agreed about having the shaft machined down.

[80's_delirious]

x2

but Id expect the input shaft to be professionally fitted. Got to basically strip the whole box to change the front shaft. my attitude to the cut front shaft would be "you fark it, you fix it!"

He had the opportunity to return it when he discovered it didnt fit.

Also if the box was in your personal daily driver you know if it is in 100% good second hand working order or not. So your call on the condition of the box.

[MissDrew]

Once the input shaft was modified the condition of the box has NOTHING to do with it.

It comes down to returning what you got.
Unless he replaces the input shaft he CAN NOT return what he got.

[Simo63]

Wheelers...you sell a 5 speed gearbox from your 3f 80 series, which has been a daily driver, with a guarantee it works and works well. You tell the buyer it is possible to fit it in behind his 1hz using a v8 holden or 3f clutch plate, as you know of one which had been done previous.
The buyer finds the front shaft is shorter than the 1hz, and makes the judgement call to machine the end off the input shaft and add an extension, without removing it from the gearbox. Nothing is discussed till its done, then when the box doesnt perform to the buyers standards, it is give me my monry back you ripoff. You guaranteed it would fit and was a good box. Should i give him the dollars after receiving the box back

Hey Dow50r.

2 points here I think:

1) he has modified it and therefore surrendered any guarantee on the performance of the box if that was the problem but from what you have said, the performance of the box isn't in question here; but

2) It appears in your post that you told him it would fit but it didn't? Did he rely on your information? Is it possible that he only purchased the box because he relied on your info? If so then normally under these circumstances a refund would be warranted HOWEVER this is a difficult one because even if he relied on your advice that the box would fit he still had no right to modify it. He should have called you and said the front input shaft is the wrong length. He didn't and he ruined the box by modifying it (what a bizarre thing to do ) so I would summarise by saying that he has voided any possibility of a refund as the box is now useless to anyone.

Sounds messy and whoever he is must accept that you can't modify something to try and make it fit then return it when the mod doesn't work. Try doing that to any product purchased from a normal business and see how far you get.

GUTS has a good sugestion out of this sticky mess, get him to get the box returned to the condition it left your premises and then you can refund him the $$.

Cheers
Simo

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Secondhand is buyer beware. You have no obligation in a private sale. It's reputation that is as stake. You'll have to evaluate the relationship.

Personally, tough luck for him. A shop wouldn't give you your money back.

Paul

[evanstaniland]

Secondhand is buyer beware. You have no obligation in a private sale. It's reputation that is as stake. You'll have to evaluate the relationship.

Personally, tough luck for him. A shop wouldn't give you your money back.

Paul

totally agree 2nd hand is buyers beware!!

Wheelers...you sell a 5 speed gearbox from your 3f 80 series, which has been a daily driver, with a guarantee it works and works well. You tell the buyer it is possible to fit it in behind his 1hz using a v8 holden or 3f clutch plate, as you know of one which had been done previous.

it is give me my money back you ripoff. You guaranteed it would fit and was a good box. Should i give him the dollars after receiving the box back

so from what i read here it worked fine when you took it out!! and you said it would possibly fit due to knowing of one done before....where did you say that you guarantee that it will fit???

stiff shit to him!! he purchased it with that information (should have done more homework) and he has altered the product
therefore by by no return!!

Evan

[udm]

Should i give him the dollars

no, he should have done some research.

[dow50r]

Guys,thanks for your resposes, here is a few answers. Because it wasnt me that did the original conversion, i didnt recall exactly how it was achieved, but further thought over the last month has me remembering feedback of a brass bush being made to replace the spigot bearing in the crank. Thats how it was achieved.
Because my box has had its bearings flogged by a millers' cutter, i have no doubt this is part of the reason for the bad outcome.
I am in agreeance with whats been said, and would gladly refund for a return just to keep the peace, but then there is delivery to work out, and in the end, there is nothing i can do other than paying all his out of pockets to make him happy, hopefully reflection on comments made here will help.
Thanks again, and i am sorry you all had to hear of it.

[tobie]

g'day andrew

i am in disbelief that you have been put in this situation
i gather that the box is the one i was going to buy for my 75x but had no transfer lever bolt holes ???????

with the return if it was me i would be standing my ground and telling the seller to whistle dixie, and if need be meet him/her to sort it out

when you do conversions it is up to yourself personally to do all your homework and measure twice and cut once,
you cannot really buy a item and modify it, work out you stuffed up by cutting then demand a full refund

if the box is returned in the original condition that it was bought in then yeah consider giving him his money back, however all large retailers will not wear freight it is up to the purchaser to return it

i no where you are coming from with the situation and hope you learn a lesson like myself and offer no expertise to anybody just to sell a item

talk to you soon

tobie

[midi73]

Tell him he's dreaming.

[turbo42]

Interesting post, thought I should add to it since I am the guy who bought the box off Andrew with his so called guarantee. I could post PM’s and emails up here, as could he supporting my comments but will not bother as I doubt Andrew will dispute anything I have written as he know it to be true.

I told Andrew what vehicle it was for and he told me it would fit and was in good nick, he even went so far as to guarantee the condition. I bought it in good faith and it was shipped up to me at my expense.

Once I had the box the mechanic dropped my box out and rang me to tell me that the input shafts where different ..mmm I rang Andrew and he was all confused, I spoke to him about options and he tells me I need a 3F of chevy clutch plate so off I go and buy a 3F clutch plate.. mmm shaft is to long and wrong diameter for spigot bearing mmm so I ring him again and he begins to tell me another story .. I talk to my mechanic and he suggests making a sleeve, but due to length output shaft will need to be modded, I talk to Andrew and tell him what I am going to do, he then begins to recall something about a bush or spacer.. so the box is sent to the machine shop for the mod, they do it and send it back, looks sweet, so box goes in with 3F clutch plate 1 HZ bell housing and 1 HZ throw out.

Box is in car, drive car .. gearbox is crap, ring Andrew NO ANSWER .. leave message, no returned call. Send him a message .. eventually responds and says there is no point talking on phone. This leads on to many months of emails and PM's etc and my ringing him over a dozen times in an attempt to talk to him about it but it begins to become obvious that he will not talk to me.. I begin to get that sinking feeling that I have dealt with some online so and so …..

Initially when I had issues I offered to take it to any gearbox place of his selection in Brisbane and have them inspect it to prove it was the box, I took it to the local guy and he drove it and said the syncro's where stuffed. Anyway after offering to do this Andrew would say in one post send it back for a refund then next time say he wouldn't and it went on from there.

I stuck to the line and still stick to the line of I only bought it as he guaranteed the box to be good, a guarantee which proved to be worth nothing, something Andrew himself agreed to when he told me bad luck, buyer be ware, to which I responded mate that would be fine if that is how you do business then why guarantee they thing in the first place ?

Through this entire deal Andrew Lukies had proven his word isn't worth anything and he is nothing more than one of those Internet Bottom feeders who sells crappy stuff to people on the internet and rips them off, mmm maybe he is Nigerian …

I have made several offers to Andrew to rectify this situation using independent 3rd parties. I have said I am not sending it back until I have my money which I think is fair as he is the dishonest one who has previously given me his word and not honored it so I would be an idiot to send the box back because he said he is going to give me my money. Then he would have his crappy box and my money.

The only option I see remaining is to make sure that as many people as possible are aware of Andrew Lukies and his dishonest ways and limit his ability to rip more people off. Not much solace but what else can you do.

Since then I have spoken to others who have also been ripped by Andrew so I guess this is not the first time he has profited of Crappy Internet Sales… what a great guy …

It sure is buyer beware, peoples word and honor just isn’t what it use to be.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

No comment on who stands where.

But Turbo42, glad you posted the other side of the story.

Paul

[NICK]

tuff one.


hearing both sides of the story i think one party should pay the labour and the other party pay the parts bill. kinda works out for both parties.


NICK

[Struth]

Such a sticky situation.

Sounds like the box is definitely stuffed, it was modified, so there is a possible out for the seller.

Dow50r, you asked our advice so heres mine,

If you knew the box to be in good working order before you sent it then leave things as they are.

If you did not know if the box worked, or knew it was dodgy then give the man his money back.

Can't be much simpler than that can it

One of these two blokes is at fault here and he knows it.

Cheers

[dow50r]

Guys, i stand by my honest dealings with all of you on here over the last 7 years....if i say it was driven and good, it was given that evaluation because it drove well. The rest is up to the purchaser, who states he is an engineer on his profile.
Also, i would love to know, who else on here has received a bad deal from me in the past 7 years, as stated earlier????? Please post it up in support of one of us.
My memories of the first call agree with the confused part only....i wasnt expecting a problem, The rest of what was said is open to interpretation.at some stage i suggested he could swap input shafts and his reply was, its too hard to do and the hoist is needed tomorrow morning....(this was 7pm)
The rest is history so to speak.
To keep my details off the web as he has threatened to host a site specially for me, and to stop further posts on here and two other sites that i know of defaming me so far,

http://72.30.186.56/search/cache?ei=UTF ... 1&.intl=au

i am prepared to make some concessions, but rest assured, i wont be bending over to touch my toes. The only thing ive done wrong is not drive to brissy,and fit it myself, Lastly, for those of you with hands on knowledge, how DO u keep an extension to the front of an input shaft concentric while you do up the bellhousing. Presuming the transfer went on after the bell was tightened, we are talking 100 kg's twisting it sideways!!! What effect does an extension off the input shaft have on the input shafts job to support the mainshaft and synchros through the bearings?
Can i have some feedback from you gearbox specioalists out there?

[stitch_all4x4]

the internet is full of pirates..if u buy from a wreckers u may pay more but atleast u get 30 days of insurance

[turbo42]

the internet is full of pirates..if u buy from a wreckers u may pay more but atleast u get 30 days of insurance

You got that right.

It is funny when you look back on it that I was dumb enough to trust some guy I had never met to honor his word, and then I was initially surprised by the fact he stopped taking my phone calls when I found him out to be a dodgy internet seller. I should have known better.

As for defamation ... I have never posted anything but fact so it is not defamation. If I can stop one person out there from buying something of Andrew then I will have at least achieved something from all this and saved them some $$$$.

I mean the time / effort and money which my dealings with Andrew Lukies have cost me could have easily funded a fully rebuilt gearbox which would have at least had a warranty which would have been honored.

Regardless, I have a crappy gearbox and a worthless guarantee and Andrew Lukies has my $$$.... so I guess I have been just another victim in an internet scam, only the guy who took me for a ride was an Aussie and not a Nigerian.

So if you are reading this and thinking I caused the damage and offered many times to take it to a third party for another professional opinion then that is fine. But think twice before you buy anything of Andrew Lukies because I really do have better things to do than post on here for no reason and his reason for posting is to try and justify his position and no doubt convince others to trust him so he can fleece more suckers.

[Surfection]

I don't know what to say to you mate but if you think you're making yourself look good by posting all the crap that you are, think again.
I have known Andrew for many years, as have hundreds of people on Outerlimits that he has helped with information and guidance over the years. I have bought and traded plenty of stuff with Andrew including diffs and lockers and have always been 100% happy. I would trust his word over yours to the end of the earth and emplore other such people to post up. The 4wding community would be a boring place if it wasn't for people such as Dow50r and Dumbdunce helping the younger and less educated among us get through our conversions and rig transformations.

I hope you take this as a lesson to research your conversions properly as I believe it was not Andrews responsibility to tell you if the gearbox would fit or not, just what type of gearbox it was and that it was in good working order which he has said.

Cheers, Jeremy

[Tiny]

I don't know what to say to you mate but if you think you're making yourself look good by posting all the crap that you are, think again.
I have known Andrew for many years, as have hundreds of people on Outerlimits that he has helped with information and guidance over the years. I have bought and traded plenty of stuff with Andrew including diffs and lockers and have always been 100% happy. I would trust his word over yours to the end of the earth and emplore other such people to post up. The 4wding community would be a boring place if it wasn't for people such as Dow50r and Dumbdunce helping the younger and less educated among us get through our conversions and rig transformations.

I hope you take this as a lesson to research your conversions properly as I believe it was not Andrews responsibility to tell you if the gearbox would fit or not, just what type of gearbox it was and that it was in good working order which he has said.

Cheers, Jeremy

x 2

[Ice]

why dont you take it to a transmission shop, say of andrews choosing so its not a mate of yours and get it looked at ?

did you ask how many k's were on the box when you bought it ?

it would be interesting to know how many k's actually are on the box

[midi73]

I find this a very interesting post. I have had dealings with Andrew when I drove interstate carrying parts up and down the eastern side of OZ. I did find Andrew to be pretty honest with his parts and helpfull with his information. However on the negative we ended up having a fallout because he reckond that I was in it to rip him off and I was trying to use him and cheep parts to set up my own on line business ( like I would have time to do that while driving interstate). Where he got that idea I dont know, except to say that I found he quite often didnt listen properly (frusteratingly so). He assumed what I said quite often rather than taking the time to listen to what I said. Out of this he assumed that I was into the deal we had for my gain and his expense which was not true. HAVING SAID THIS. I never found him to try and be dishonest with his parts, or try to rip people off. I have bought parts off him as well and have had no problems with them. I found that he is just trying to run a business around his work. Far more seriously than I thought when I first met him, I am not sure about said gearbox, but what I have found is that we are looking at things from a 4x4 community point of view buying parts, where as he is a 4x4 enthusiast, pretty much looking at it from a business point of view selling parts. I found it caused a clash until I realised this different perspective on the sales.
On another unrelated note. I found all the sales that he did for the outers members that I carried for him were always a pleasure to do dealings with, were as any sales that he made through ebay were allways a pain in the arse. So I say this to give a big tick to the outers 4x4 community.

[dogbreath_48]

I've had dealings with andrew and found him to be a trusting and trustworthy character. We both drove 300+ km to exchange parts, and throughout Andrew was always honest, easy going, polite and helpful. He has also helped me with my annoying queries numerous times and given no-bullshit descriptions of parts he has subsequently offered me (note that i went directly to him for help and received said help before any parts were ever offered - he clearly wasn't in it for the sell)


turbo42, you shouldn't have modified the gearbox in any way if you were to ever expect a return. I don't doubt andrew would have offered to refund the money upon return of the goods in their original condition. I wouldn't expect to return a washing machine if i took it home and modified it before (or after, really) ever operating it - whatever advice i was given by the salesman.

-Stu

[midi73]

he clearly wasn't in it for the sell)

If that was directed at me I never said he was in it for the sell, per say. What I was implying is that his his thinking and other peoples thinking comes from a different angle, because he IS doing it as a business. It can catch you out when you come from the minset of buying parts for your car. Or in my case carring freight in excange for parts for my car. I was thinking of it as parts for my car, he was thinking of it as a full on business. Caught me by surprise, especially when I started getting accused.
Like I also said I did find him honest with his business dealings. I also got to know him first through help offered then a good deal given where we both won. I am offering an opinion in this debate covering both sides. I had a lot of dealings to qualify. Andrew is not a bad bloke, it is a shame things went the way they did with us. Most of the dealings were a pleasure. Though there does seem to be a bit of a pattern starting to emrge here, so I say Andrew, be carefull what you say, OR dont say. For your own good. I no longer drive so dont deal interstate anymore, so it makes no difference to me either way, but I hope it all works out well for both partys involved.

[STUMPY]

If I can stop one person out there from buying something of Andrew then I will have at least achieved something from all this and saved them some $$$$.

But think twice before you buy anything of Andrew Lukies because I really do have better things to do than post on here for no reason and his reason for posting is to try and justify his position and no doubt convince others to trust him so he can fleece more suckers.

Here you are wrong. It is unfortunate that things haven't worked out for you, I guess that's just the way some things go when buying parts online.

As for advising people not to have dealings with Andrew in the future to save them some $$$, i disagree.
I have purchased a number of things from Andrew in the past and always found him to be truthful and fair to deal with.
His knowledge has helped many of us members out over the years and i know him well enough to say that he would never sell anything that wasn't what he claimed it be, to his knowledge.

I'd think twice regarding your signature line. It is not helping your cause at all.

Good luck to both of you in resolving this issue.

Regards, Joel

[dow50r]

To put it as simply as possible, Midi and i had an understanding, he worked for me picking up and dropping off ebay wins and outerlimits wins on route, and i paid him in parts for his modifications....but eventually it became too expensive for me to use his services. I was selling parts at parts prices and paying courier rates for ebayers who didnt appreciate the cheap cartage. Daves attitude towards me shows we still respect eachother, and i thank you for your time to respond.

That said, the gearbox had 200000kms on it and worked well. A gearbox specialist simply isnt an option because they dont work for free, and no-one wants to pay....the issue Brad has with me is my guarantee....he decided to buy my box because i guaranteed it was a good one. What he didnt realise is it was dependant on him doing his bit right, one would think that goes without saying.
I started off simply saying your on your own after the modification he did (not the mechanic or the machine shop) but i have come around to be willing to take the box back and issue a refund, but this is still a million miles away from what he has demanded, which is money first....
If i have my old box back, at least i have most of what i started with for the $$. One has to ask the question....why isnt this an option to him??? is his old gears in it, or does he want to keep money and box for his troubles???
Andrew

[Emo]

What sort of effect would the mods have had on the box? Were they something that could be reasonably expected to effect the reliability or function of it or were they cosmetic / superficial and regardless of them being made, the box should still work fine?

[midi73]

To put it as simply as possible, Midi and i had an understanding, he worked for me picking up and dropping off ebay wins and outerlimits wins on route, and i paid him in parts for his modifications....but eventually it became too expensive for me to use his services. I was selling parts at parts prices and paying courier rates for ebayers who didnt appreciate the cheap cartage. Daves attitude towards me shows we still respect eachother, and i thank you for your time to respond.

That said, the gearbox had 200000kms on it and worked well. A gearbox specialist simply isnt an option because they dont work for free, and no-one wants to pay....the issue Brad has with me is my guarantee....he decided to buy my box because i guaranteed it was a good one. What he didnt realise is it was dependant on him doing his bit right, one would think that goes without saying.
I started off simply saying your on your own after the modification he did (not the mechanic or the machine shop) but i have come around to be willing to take the box back and issue a refund, but this is still a million miles away from what he has demanded, which is money first....
If i have my old box back, at least i have most of what i started with for the $$. One has to ask the question....why isnt this an option to him??? is his old gears in it, or does he want to keep money and box for his troubles???
Andrew

No worries Andrew. I am not a malicious person. I am not going to let a little disagreement and some missunderstandings cloud my judgement. As stated above, (apart from our misunderstandings) I did find you honest and helpfull and good to deal with. I hope all works out well for you and the other party.

[midi73]

What sort of effect would the mods have had on the box? Were they something that could be reasonably expected to effect the reliability or function of it or were they cosmetic / superficial and regardless of them being made, the box should still work fine?

I think if you read above, the imput shaft was modified, Not a good mod for a return policy.

[dow50r]

I said it would fit in behind his 1hz ... but rest assured, with the boxes on the floor, and time against him, he chose to extend the shaft rather than make a crank bush out of brass or even buy a bearing 14mm wider...so off came the front of the shaft, whilst it was still hanging off the box, on a milling machine from what ive read....i cant confirm anything as no receipts were forthcoming when i asked the questions....but he still expects me to send his money first.
Here is a snippet from an australia day poem published today :-

All across this wide brown country from the Cape to Hobart town,

There are people who will help you when you find the chips are down,

And if someone should abuse you, and does it just because,

Then that person's not Australian, and that person never was.

Off soap box, Happy australia day everyone
Andrew