Samurai transfer into Feroza

[ferozamaniac]

I have seen that Samurai transfers can easily been transplant into the VItara gearbox. If someone wants to do that the same thing for the Feroza is it possible to be done and what he should take care to make it work?
The advantage of that is that the Samurai transfer will low down all the gears of the feroza gearbox in order to crawl better the 30 or 31 inches of tyres. Dont take care the cost or how much cutting and welding will need to be done. Anyone has ever tried or thought about it?

[MightyMouse]

Where did you hear this ?

Don't know if its a translation problem, but a Sierra transfer case ( Samurai ) looks nothing like a Vitara one and shares no common components.

For a start a Sierra case is stand alone ( divorced ) whereas a Vitara case is mounted on the back of the gearbox. - like the Feroza.

Whilst I'm no expert on Suzuki's, I have worked on enough Sierras and Vitara's to be very very ............. very doubtful about this

If your asking can you put a Sierra case in a Feroza, then yes but it would be a very significant engineering task - anythings possible but......
If on the other hand you want to put a Vitara case into a Feroza then thats also possible, but its not dead easy either.

I have either misunderstood your question or your info is wrong.

[ferozamaniac]

The transfer of the samurai fitted on the feroza like on the picture (its a VItara project the picture)








The last picture its an OTT for VItara but instead of the OTT think of the Feroza gearbox with out its stock transfer.

[Borisovich]

It's possible.
I have such a setup on my jap rocky (roza).
it has tlc 78 axels, sammy baby lobster t-case (1.58 Hi-range, 2,58 Low-range), 36" Simex ET. The car runs preety wall on Hi-range, but out of the road Low-range is not enough, so i think i would set a 4,16 kit into sammy t-case.

Sammy T - case is mounted right to roza gearbox. I mean that you should disassamble roza t-case from the gearbox. It's impossible to build a dual t-case set up due to the roza's t-case front drive-shaft flage will hinder sammy front drive-shaft flange.

[MightyMouse]

Ferozamaniac - no pics....

Borisovich - as I said anythings possible, but why bother ? Just put a Vitara transmission in straight up. Roza gearboxes are weak in the first place - lots of failures even with standard motors, add some real power and the troubles have just begun. Off road - auto's rule.

I have a Feroza auto bellhousing, AW4 auto, Vitara transfer and 4.3:1 reduction gears - ok its not dead simple but it works well.

Sierras tend to run higher reduction ratios but they run lower diffs ratios so it tends to average out.

Would love to see a pic of yours - it must be quite a beast.

[MightyMouse]

Ok just very slow pics....

[Borisovich]

Ferozamaniac - no pics....



I have a Feroza auto bellhousing, AW4 auto, Vitara transfer and 4.3:1 reduction gears - ok its not dead simple but it works well.

MightyMouse, you mean that vitara transfer can be bolted straight to feroza transfer? Can you show the pics of this setup, ot shpuld be great.

BTW, in your configuration you have 1:1 ratio on Hi-range, and it's not enough to roll 33" or more on the road.

Sammy t-case has 1.4 on hi-range and it compensates my weak 1.6 motor

[ferozamaniac]

Thats what i mean samurai transfer will give more low range on high and low gears and not only in 4x4. People i would appreciate if you take some pictures and post them up here please I dont want to give so much money to buy a Vitara gearbox and a samurai transfer. Maybe i want spend the money on the transfer and try to fit the locker that is in progress here.

[MightyMouse]

Borisovich - no, what I mean is that a Vitara AW4 auto and transfer can fit behind a Feroza engine using the factory Feroza auto bellhousing, flex plate and torque converter. The engine needs to be moved forward a little and a crossmember made but its simple fabrication rather than precision engineering. Also wanted to get rid of those #$%^ engine and transmission mounts so it was time well spent.

The AW4 is a tough 4 speed lockup auto fitted to a number of vehicles including Jeeps. When combined with crawler gears / torque converter the
final drive ratio is around 160:1 - more than low enough. And a geared auto is a dream to drive off road

The overdrive ratio is just right - on 31" tyres its around 3000rpm @ 100kph obviously less with bigger wheels, the plan is for 33's.

I don't want to rev the engine hard on the highway as I do quite a few long trips. Even with the extra revs ( ie not in overdrive ) it doesn't make enough power so its not a ratio problem its a power issue IMO. Turbocharging will give it the extra required power without adding unnecessary revs.

ferozamaniac - I'm not a picture taker, I just do stuff to please me, pics arn't important as I never look at them again anyway.

And a word of advice - the sort of mods we are talking about take a lot of time, create many many challenges, require substantial engineering facilities and can be costly. For example - you buy a second hand gearbox - do you just put it in and hope, or have it overhauled ? If you overhaul it it costs more money - if you don't and it causes problems you end up doing the work twice AND spending the money AND blaming the conversion...

They are very definitely NOT bolt on solutions.

What's possible for one person could be too much for someone else. IMO you just have to make a decision as to what you want, and keep solving the problems as you go along - there will be many.

But you now know two important things... you can do what Borisovich has done and it will work, or you can do what I have done and it works.
He knows what he wanted to achieve and I'm following my plan. You need to decide whats right for you in the big picture and do it.

[meece4x4]

wouldnt it be easier just to shoehorn in the Escudo 1600cc box and transfer case into the Fez engine bay instead?? ... the Escudo 1600 is gruntier than the 1600 Daihatsu motor, easier to work on and part (in NZ) are dirt cheap, the only major engineering mods needed would be engine/gearbox/transfer case mounts and drive shafts, then a rewire to fit the escudo ECU however without looking under the wifes escudo I wouldnt know if anything would line up but I would think that trying to graft a zuk transfer case onto the daihatfoot box would be quite a feat.

failing that why not just shoehorn in the 2.0 V6 Vitara running gear just remember to do the timing chain tensioners BEFORE you fit it

[ferozamaniac]

The point is to keep it stock as much as i can and fit the Samurai transfer. If i replace it with another gearbox i might not have the same chance to find used parts. Also it would be nice a Feroza to have lower gearing with just the Samurai transfer (i will look for a Samurai 410 edition transfer)

[MightyMouse]

Mecce - can you get reduction gears for the Escudo ?

[cj]

Mecce - can you get reduction gears for the Escudo ?

Yes, the Escudo is just the Japanese name for the Vitara just like they used Sidekick, Tracker & Sunrunner in the U.S.

[cj]

wouldnt it be easier just to shoehorn in the Escudo 1600cc box and transfer case into the Fez engine bay instead?? ... the Escudo 1600 is gruntier than the 1600 Daihatsu motor, easier to work on and part (in NZ) are dirt cheap, the only major engineering mods needed would be engine/gearbox/transfer case mounts and drive shafts, then a rewire to fit the escudo ECU however without looking under the wifes escudo I wouldnt know if anything would line up but I would think that trying to graft a zuk transfer case onto the daihatfoot box would be quite a feat.

Then you might just as well sell it and buy a Vitara/Escudo instead because then you can have front and rear lockers, t-case gears, snorkels, etc. available off the shelf

[meece4x4]

Then you might just as well sell it and buy a Vitara/Escudo instead because then you can have front and rear lockers, t-case gears, snorkels, etc. available off the shelf

or steal the wifes one the main reason I sold the V6 Zook I had and bought the Daihatsu was OUT OF THE BOX ie without lockers or mods the Daihatsu is a better 4x4 than the V6 Zook, for about 4 weeks I had both and drove them both over varous hazzards on the farm, every time the daihatsu out performed the zook except for comfort.

[cj]

LWB or SWB V6?

[MightyMouse]

Then you might just as well sell it and buy a Vitara/Escudo instead because then you can have front and rear lockers, t-case gears, snorkels, etc. available off the shelf

the main reason I sold the V6 Zook I had and bought the Daihatsu was OUT OF THE BOX ie without lockers or mods the Daihatsu is a better 4x4 than the V6 Zook, for about 4 weeks I had both and drove them both over varous hazzards on the farm, every time the daihatsu out performed the zook except for comfort.

I'll get the popcorn ready for this discussion -

For the record, I don't think theres a lot of difference in performance between a stock 1.6 Vit and a stock Feroza. The V6 has it all over the Feroza on the highway and sometimes off road - as you really can't beat the extra grunt.

In most circumstances the choice of aftermarket zook bits means it MUCH easier, cheaper and more of a "known thing" to add capability to a Vit than a Feroza. And a capable Vitara is a VERY good thing.

However..... the Feroza is stronger in the chassis / front suspension / front axle and steering ( even with the idler arm issues ) but less reliable in the transmission.

The comparison problem is that its easy ( relative ) to build a capable Vitara and so hard to do the same to a Feroza that any comparison past stock is pretty difficult.

But of course the main factor is that the Feroza simply looks better, and is driven by all the cool offroaders.

I will now hide under the table till its same to come out again.

[meece4x4]

LWB or SWB V6?

i had a LWB V6 .. and my wife drives a LWB 1600 Escudo with front and rear LSD's .. My little Fez with just the rear LSD can easy keep up with her except for on very steep muddy tracks uphill... thats where she has the edge on me.

oh btw mightymouse,
in a straight off the line drag .. my manual fez eats my wifes auto escudo off the line but anything after 2nd gear and she just blitzes past me till i chicken out @ around 130kph trying to chase her down (plenty fast enough in a Fez)

from many many trips with my wife and i trying to outdo each other we have decided to call it a tie between the makes, her LSD's give her an edge in traction, however my extra ground clearance gives me an edge in really deep mud and ruts, many time Linda drives past me while im winching myself out of a bog ... only to catch and winch HER out of ruts thats shes bellied on

[ferozamaniac]

From a German guy i think
http://picasaweb.google.gr/carstenpape1/FerozaUmbau











But i dont think he has used the Feroza gearbox i will try to ask him somehow

[MightyMouse]

That appears to be sitting on the very rearmost crossmember

The tailshaft angle must be mindboggling steep, even without any axle droop

[MightyMouse]

Got too much for me = went out and looked underneath.

IF its sitting on the rear crossmember ( and it certainly looks like it is ) then the tailshaft will be around 250mm long. - with a scary angle.

If he has suspension lift and any travel its going to be a big issue.

And as guess its a chev V8.

[Gwagensteve]

to say nothing of the misalignment caused by the weird offset of the transfer, oil level control in the sierra case, totally hack mounts etcetcetc.

Surely a Lada niva divorced case would be better - they're centered and with the centre diff can be made to do digs/burns. I dont think the (relatively) massive high range reduction of the sierra case is required either unless you got up to oh, 39"tyres??

Steve.

[Borisovich]

Pics of my build-up.
sammi t-case connected to roza gearbox.

[ferozamaniac]

What can i say just perfect

[MightyMouse]

Yours doesn't appear to be the same as FerozaManiac's pics - different engine - different transmission, mounted in a different place.
Yours works and thats good but Ferozamaniacs pics ????

So go out, look under a Feroza - have a look at the pics, see where the case is "mounted". The transfer case selector must be a loooong way back.

[ferozamaniac]

My pictures are from a German Feroza i have no idea why he done that. Borisovich has the correct pictures of how to bolt the samurai transfer with the feroza gearbox. Now about the mounts and brackets of course they are different Borisovich feroza its a monster now

[Borisovich]

My pics are feroza pics. My roza has stock 1.6 angine and stock jearbox. If you look under your roza, you will see that gearbox selector is NOT mounted on the jearbox. it's mounted approx 40 sm to the rear. and in stock transmission this selector sits at the rear of t-case. Bouth My selectors (t-case and gearbox) feat stock body holes.

[ferozamaniac]

Did you mount the gearbox selector on top of the samurai trasnfer case or did you make a new bracket?

[Borisovich]

I made a new bracket. gearbox and t-case are mounted on separate brackets, that's why you can't mount the gearbox shifter on a t- case.
I made a bracket from the rear side of gearbox. It bolts to the gearbox in plases where the stock t-case was bolted and goes towoards t-case but doesn't bolt to it. the mount can be seen on ywo first pics a posted here.