LWB GQ Wagon. air locker and 31 A/Ts VS. 35 MTZs

[brad-chevlux]

After thinking and searching for days, i think i've come up with a first post that will get replies that don't include links to the GQ/Mav bible or the search page.


I have just bought my self a GQ LWB wagon, list reads as....
4.2d with an AIT turbo kit
snorkle
2 inch spring lift
winch bar of unknown brand (minus the winch)
and some very worn 31in A/Ts

the tyres need replacing and the wagon was bough for use as a 3/4 serious off roader (loss to medium rock, sand and mud) and for camping use.

the budget will go as far as 35inch micky ATZs and wheels with a bit left over to create the clearnece needed to run them. (leave the spring lift, lift the body a bit, trimming body ect)

OR

an air locker for the rear and replacment 31inch A/Ts

My question is in this situation what way would you go and why?

[bogged]

I'd go 33 MTR's and one locker

[brad-chevlux]

I'd go 33 MTR's and one locker

whats the reasoning behind the choice.
i need to be able to weigh up the pros and cons of each setup. other wise i'd be basing my choice on what a few people would do, instead of why they would do it.

keep in mind the factors of cost, any extra work involved, and the end result of offroad ability.

IE: with 31s i can use the 15x7 inch rims i already have but with 33s and 35s i'd have to also buy some 15x8inch rims. even at $60 each it's an extra $300
stick with 31s and i only need to buy 4 tyres there is another $200 i can spend on the air locker.

if i whent with the 35s and open diffs, would it go as far as 31 A/Ts and a locker

[badger]

in 90% of cases it will go further un locked on 35's than locked on 31's
gq's have big diffs to get hung up on

bogged a 33 is only about $20 each cheaper than a 35, i fail to see how the $100 saved on a whole set will equal a locker

perhapse run the 35's and have the lsd shimmed up untill you can find the 1500 bucs for a locker

[bogged]

in 90% of cases it will go further un locked on 35's than locked on 31's
gq's have big diffs to get hung up on

bogged a 33 is only about $20 each cheaper than a 35, i fail to see how the $100 saved on a whole set will equal a locker

it aint about money saving there, but the engineers for 35's will cost you $600...

[nastytroll]

in 90% of cases it will go further un locked on 35's than locked on 31's
gq's have big diffs to get hung up on

bogged a 33 is only about $20 each cheaper than a 35, i fail to see how the $100 saved on a whole set will equal a locker

it aint about money saving there, but the engineers for 35's will cost you $600...

He's in Qld so no engineering 35's.

[fwnsp]

35" tyres would reqire new diff centers to have any advantage. running stock diffs with 35"ers means less touqe at the wheels, and you don't want that when 4x4ing. it iwll also put more strian on your engine, and will most likely involve lifting the body and/or cutting the gaurds.

31" tyres and a locker would give you more tourque and traction when needed, and would not require and mods to the car body.

i'd say get a set of 33's, you will still get enough touqe at the wheels on stock running gear, and you will not have to modify the car much if at all (in terms of lifting and cutting)

after the 33's, if you can afford it, a diff locker would be a wise investment. if you have an LSD rear, get a front locker, as the stock nissan lsd's are pretty good.

my 2c

[bogged]

in 90% of cases it will go further un locked on 35's than locked on 31's
gq's have big diffs to get hung up on

bogged a 33 is only about $20 each cheaper than a 35, i fail to see how the $100 saved on a whole set will equal a locker

it aint about money saving there, but the engineers for 35's will cost you $600...

He's in Qld so no engineering 35's.

missed that bit..

Go with 38's..

[badger]

you dont need to re gear a gq untill you go bigger than 35's
they have plenty of power and torque at the wheels

and besides what use is torque at the wheels when your diffs keep hitting stuff

[Nelso]

an air locker for the rear and replacment 31inch A/Ts

I'd go the locker in the front and a second hand set of 35 inch tyres.

[brad-chevlux]

prices i've been given are $310 each for the 33/12.5r15 MTZ and $340 for the 35/12.5r15 MTZ

rims to suit will be between $65 and $87 depending on whats available at the time.

$1700 for a set of 5 35" MTZs
$435 odd for the rims to suit
body lift $200 from Marks 4x4, (yes i've read about the cracking problems the GQs can have)
trimming the body if needed is something i can do myself. I've read on here about some people needing to and some not, so it would be a case bolt on and see what it needs where.

the only thing i'm not to sure about is spacing the front arms. How exactly is it done?


fwnsp You raised the the point of gearing. the GQ has 4.11:1 gears, what would you suggest changing to for 35s?
Is it worth going to to 4.88:1 gears and not doing transfer gears in the future? or would you suffer the tall gearing untill the time comes when the transfer gears could be changed?

[nastytroll]

dont go lowwer then 4.6, if running 35's I woldnt bother changing diffs til some come up at a good price.

[GUJohnno]

Suspension and tyres are the best mods you can do.

Traction is the name of the game.
A good suspension will keep your tyres on the ground longer.
Good tyres will give you more grip in the differing terrain and larger tyres will give more clearance under the diffs.

Once you've done that, go out and enjoy yourself and learn as much as possible, maybe even join a club for their driver training program and experience.

[brad-chevlux]

Suspension and tyres are the best mods you can do.

Traction is the name of the game.
A good suspension will keep your tyres on the ground longer.
Good tyres will give you more grip in the differing terrain and larger tyres will give more clearance under the diffs.

Once you've done that, go out and enjoy yourself and learn as much as possible, maybe even join a club for their driver training program and experience.

Been wheelin for for a few years, i've only just had the cash and time to buy my own truck. Go out with a mate in his zooks shorty soft top and a longbase ute. all the normal zook stuff enough lift to clear 31s lockright lokka in the rear procomp ES9000 shocks alot of hours spent getting it flex to well, blah blah blah.

the plans with mods is to reach the goal of what i want but making each step as effective as posible. Not having a bunch of spare cash i need to think about each mod and spend in the right places

[Nelso]

Suspension and tyres are the best mods you can do.

Traction is the name of the game.
A good suspension will keep your tyres on the ground longer.
Good tyres will give you more grip in the differing terrain and larger tyres will give more clearance under the diffs.

Once you've done that, go out and enjoy yourself and learn as much as possible, maybe even join a club for their driver training program and experience.

I disagree. Lockers and tyres are the best mods followed by gearing then suspension. I've watched plenty of 6 inch lifted cars with 35s get stuck when lower rigs with lockers just cruised on up. As you said traction is the name of the game and lockers are the best thing for that.

[Wish I had coils]

Suspension and tyres are the best mods you can do.

Traction is the name of the game.
A good suspension will keep your tyres on the ground longer.
Good tyres will give you more grip in the differing terrain and larger tyres will give more clearance under the diffs.

Once you've done that, go out and enjoy yourself and learn as much as possible, maybe even join a club for their driver training program and experience.

I disagree. Lockers and tyres are the best mods followed by gearing then suspension. I've watched plenty of 6 inch lifted cars with 35s get stuck when lower rigs with lockers just cruised on up. As you said traction is the name of the game and lockers are the best thing for that.

Traction is the name of the game, Big Tyres to stop getting hung up on basic things like tree roots etc,
Lockers will give you all the traction in the world but it cost more money for lockers then it can cost for a good tyres and a suspension set up.

31 And diff lock your still going to get hung up some where real bad were
35 might just have cleared it and got you through
Just remember that brad-chevlux is looking for a budget set up

[bogged]

I reckon people need to learn how capable their trucks are standard before reading magazines seeing $50k of accessories bolted to rigs thinking they are a must.

A new set of 31 MT's and your car will go up 10 levels from shit AT's. but going to 35 MT's from bald AT's wont be another 10 levels better.

You will have a bit more clearance, tread will be a bit more open, so should clear better, power shouldnt be an issue with the Turbo, 4.8's?

All depends on how much you want to spend straight up. You have plenty of options, but seem to have had your mind made up at the start, just needed someone to say YES do it...

[GUJohnno]

I would probably go a winch before a locker as well.

Once you get stuck with lockers in you'll be wishing you had a winch

(Having said that I have F&R lockers and no winch but they were on it when I bought it )

[frby69]

I reckon people need to learn how capable their trucks are standard before reading magazines seeing $50k of accessories bolted to rigs thinking they are a must.



...

X2

i have a prety stock gq only have 2 inch lift and 32's lsd rear, i have just as much fun as freinds with 4inch susp and 2 inch body winches and all that stuff, sure there are a few things i don't don't (not can't) and a few i can't do due to height and tracktion as i am still learn trucks limits,
but now i know what i need to keep up and all i am doing is 6 inch lift no body.33's or 35's and a lockrite front end maybe down the track a air locka $$$.

cheers tim

[Suspension Stuff]

I would go with a 2nd hand set of 33" mud terrains. Any brand would do.
I would then get a front locker.

The reasons for 33's is that cops are far less likely to pull you up for them. The gearing will be more suitable. They are more common so easier to find a 2nd hand set. They will fit in your guards without any further mods that you can't afford.

A front locker because one of your front wheels is off the ground more often then one of your rear wheels. Also often you can get your front wheels up onto solid ground and if a locker is up front then that is useful. You have a limited slip diff in the rear which does do a pretty good job where the front is an open centre. There are disadvantages to having them in the front and in a lot of situations they would be better in the rear but you can't have everything.

Shane

[brad-chevlux]

I reckon people need to learn how capable their trucks are standard before reading magazines seeing $50k of accessories bolted to rigs thinking they are a must.

I don't think that is a very fair statment.

For one, you will find maybe two mags at my house that have anything to do with the subject. I'm a mechanic at a performence retailer/workshop and i know all about people that read to many magazines.

i've based my options on what the end result of build is hoing to be. that includes the 35" tyres, front and rear lockers,crawler gears, winch, loosing the worn out suspension the truck has now for a reasonable setup,
new exhuast, a good intercooler instead of the 'hot' pipe.

i've been in and round 4x4s for a few years, been on pletny of club drives around where i live and where i'll taking this truck. i'm pretty much aware of the trucks limmits.

I've also been down the path of modifying cars a number times and i've done the "stop gap" mods befor and it only ends up costing twice as much as it would if you buy what you want/need in the firs place.

whats stuffing me around is the truck has bald tyres on it. so either way it needs new ones.

basicly what i'm asking is what would be the better investment NOW the tyres or the locker?

If you could pull your head out of your arse for minuets and stop being such a dick, maybe you'd have come up with better more usefull replies.

that way the next time some one does a search looking for an answer to the same question, they'd find the asnwer.

when i searched (yes i know how to use it, this isn't my first time on the internet and this isn't the only forum to use the same search feature) all i got was a bunch of threads where the guy asking the question got shot down and 5 replies linking him to either A the bible (which in this case doesn't help) OR B the search page (still doesn't help)

[bogged]

I reckon people need to learn how capable their trucks are standard before reading magazines seeing $50k of accessories bolted to rigs thinking they are a must.

If you could pull your head out of your arse for minuets and stop being such a dick, maybe you'd have come up with better more usefull replies.

Sorry didnt realise you were 5 times Tuff Truck Champion with 100 yrs of experience, building australias greatest rigs... Cause you mentioned in your post you had competed 10000 times and won them all.. You have plenty of offroad experience, so you already have in mind what you want to do, your just looking for people to say "yes go for it"..

If you know so much and have so much experience, why are you asking the peasants?
And if you read it, it isnt soley pointed at any single person. It is a general statement.

[Suspension Stuff]

Oh dear.

[daz4b]

hey nelso i agree with you lockers and suspension are my first choice just about go anywhere

[brad-chevlux]

Sorry didnt realise you were 5 times Tuff Truck Champion with 100 yrs of experience, building australias greatest rigs... Cause you mentioned in your post you had competed 10000 times and won them all.. You have plenty of offroad experience, so you already have in mind what you want to do, your just looking for people to say "yes go for it"..

If you know so much and have so much experience, why are you asking the peasants?
And if you read it, it isnt soley pointed at any single person. It is a general statement.

why? because i havn't seen any small tyred locked or open diffed with large tyre to compare them for my self. what i have seen in action in person, has either been where i want my truck to be or in between.

i'm not looking for people to say yes go for it. i'm lloking for opinions on wich of the original to options would be better.


all you've managed to do is miss the point completly and make smart arse comments. not very helpful to any one

i also fail to see how driving a mates zook for a few years and going on a few drives with some local outerlimits guys and a local club translates in to fully sick hardcore comp truck builder and comp winner.

what i did say is i've built a few CARS being the first 4x4 that i'll be building i thought i'd ask people who have been there for as long as i've been modifiying cars.

if i'd have come on here asking how to fit 35s to completely stock truck and only had $400 to do it, i'd understand attitude given.

[bogged]

All you've managed to do is miss the point completly and make smart arse comments. not very helpful to any one
.

You must have missed these bits.

I'd go 33 MTR's and one locker EDIT: should have said front, and keep LSD rear.

A new set of 31 MT's and your car will go up 10 levels from shit AT's. but going to 35 MT's from bald AT's wont be another 10 levels better.

You will have a bit more clearance, tread will be a bit more open, so should clear better, power shouldnt be an issue with the Turbo, 4.8's?

All depends on how much you want to spend straight up. You have plenty of options, but seem to have had your mind made up at the start, just needed someone to say YES do it...

You mentioned budget would stretch to ATZs and title the thread MTZ's which is it, cause they are different prices and different tires.
You never mentioned what you intend to do with the truck in your original post either, tourer, or weekend truck, or comp truck. Every setup is different to be 'best'...

Blokes in my old club that were happy with 31 MTs and 1 locker, who go further than people with 35's and open(Driver helps LOADS, plus owning truck since new 90 model he knows it well) people in new club that are unhappy with twin lockers and lots of goodies.

[brad-chevlux]

All you've managed to do is miss the point completly and make smart arse comments. not very helpful to any one
.

You must have missed these bits.

I'd go 33 MTR's and one locker EDIT: should have said front, and keep LSD rear.

A new set of 31 MT's and your car will go up 10 levels from shit AT's. but going to 35 MT's from bald AT's wont be another 10 levels better.

You will have a bit more clearance, tread will be a bit more open, so should clear better, power shouldnt be an issue with the Turbo, 4.8's?

All depends on how much you want to spend straight up. You have plenty of options, but seem to have had your mind made up at the start, just needed someone to say YES do it...

You mentioned budget would stretch to ATZs and title the thread MTZ's which is it, cause they are different prices and different tires.
You never mentioned what you intend to do with the truck in your original post either, tourer, or weekend truck, or comp truck. Every setup is different to be 'best'...

Blokes in my old club that were happy with 31 MTs and 1 locker, who go further than people with 35's and open(Driver helps LOADS, plus owning truck since new 90 model he knows it well) people in new club that are unhappy with twin lockers and lots of goodies.

should have been MTZ in the post aswell as the title. My bad.
In laterpost i also posted the prices i've been quoted

i said in the first post it would be for 3/4 serious off road use, also mentioned what the terrain would be like, and camping. I'll add that it wont be driven everyday, we use our charade to get to work.
and that the reason for it being a camping truck aswell is only due to it being the second car and having no other car that is suited to going where we like to camp.

your comments on the 33s while a good point, and point taken, deviates from what the end result needs to be. I understand with the money i've got there are several combinations that could be used and yes some of them would make for a better truck at this point.

It needs to be taken into account that going with any one the other options will create redundent parts in the future. something i don't want, as redundent parts means money spent on things not needed/used.

in order to get to end result with minimal wastage, compremises need to be made now. If that means having small tyres and a locker or open diffs on large tyre and getting left behind by a truck with tyre in the middle and a locker then so be it. But by the end of the build i'll have only spent what i needed to and nothing more.

the two options are there, it's just question of which one to go with? a question of which one is the smaller compromise?
if you had a choice of those two and only those two which would it be?

i don't know how to ask the question any better.

[rvh96]

my yougest son has a GQ RB30 wagon and has 35mtzs 5inch lift king comfort rate coils cheap durashock long travel shocks supension only drivetrain is stock, motor stock apart from VL efi to make it run on slopes and he goes almost everywhere where my twin locked 6inch lifted GU coil cab on 37 inch bias claws goes and his rear lsd is worn out ,mind you he is a very good driver and has no respect for the truck but it goes to show how capable you can make a GQ with very little but the right mods .Like a few have all ready said with anything less than 35s you hang up on your diffs, but it just depends on how hardcore you want to go

[gxlprado]

the two options are there, it's just question of which one to go with? a question of which one is the smaller compromise? if you had a choice of those two and only those two which would it be?

Brad, I've been foolish enough to have spend 7k on 33s and 4inch 4 months ago. I had alot of fun with it, plenty of clearance under the diff and chassis. However it drove terribe onroad, frequently wrestling to correct the steering. The lift was done properly with drop arms, castor correction, steering stabilizer, drag link, extended brake line, diff breather, adj panhard etc.

I've since return the GQ back to 2inch, 31s and front lock to keep it legal in QLD. Drive alot better and just as fun offroad but have to take a different line.

If I get to do it over (when QLD adopts the NCOP new national code of practice), I would go 2.5inch lift with 32s M/T and front lock. This way, you have the best tourer with good bush bashing credential with no compromise.

Hope that helps.

[rvh96]

the two options are there, it's just question of which one to go with? a question of which one is the smaller compromise? if you had a choice of those two and only those two which would it be?

Brad, I've been foolish enough to have spend 7k on 33s and 4inch 4 months ago. I had alot of fun with it, plenty of clearance under the diff and chassis. However it drove terribe onroad, frequently wrestling to correct the steering. The lift was done properly with drop arms, castor correction, steering stabilizer, drag link, extended brake line, diff breather, adj panhard etc.

I've since return the GQ back to 2inch, 31s and front lock to keep it legal in QLD. Drive alot better and just as fun offroad but have to take a different line.

If I get to do it over (when QLD adopts the NCOP new national code of practice), I would go 2.5inch lift with 32s M/T and front lock. This way, you have the best tourer with good bush bashing credential with no compromise.

Hope that helps.

a 4 inch lift set up properly will drive as good as a stock system if yours drove that much worse i sugest that you had alignment caster problems or the springs and shocks werent matched