Lock rite!

Post by **suzuki boy** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:40 pm

I have searched but couldn't find what i was after!

I finally got my rig goin last night and when i pulled out of the drive way the lock rite in the rear was just locked in! It wont disconect and it does it just bangs and crunchs!

I did have an axel bend in there but not snap! The axel housing on the same side as the dodgy axel was loose at the U bolts.......

The rear pinion is pretty loose!

The mechanic over the road said it's either done a pin and the pinion bearing callapsed or the diff is gone!

What does it sound like to you?

THANKS HEAPS GUYS!

Post by **suzimad** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:57 pm

it sounds to me like you cant explain shit properly , a better detailed description would help for a diagnosis

Post by **lay80n** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:56 am

Pull the rear diff, either way its gotta come out. If you have the tools and skills, strip the centre down and remove the lock-right. Inspect the pins and springs, check for deformation. Check the holes in the lock-wrong clutch packs for ovalisation or excess wear. How do you mean loose pinion, as in the nut is loose

or there is slop in the pinion bearing.

Layto....

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:16 am

Another possibility, apparently, is that the bolted 1/2 of the centre is coming loose. This takes the locker out of alignment and will jam it on.

These bolts need to be VERY tight and installed with loctite.

As layto said, the diff has to come out anyway and will need careful inspection.

Steve.

Post by **mugginsmoo** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:17 pm

as Steve said.

i have had this happen to my diff, and it was professionally installed

took it back to them and the bolts had "backed" out, letting the diff "open-up" and Jam. they put the bolts back in with lock-tight and torqued them up 4 years later no problems. and Iâ€™m still running the same locker.

Post by **suzuki boy** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:02 pm

Fair enough hopefully it's that easy!

THe mechanic over the road is going to help me!
The rear pinion moves around like theres no bearing in there.

HOpe it's something that easy!

Post by **mugginsmoo** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:43 pm

well if the pinion is moving around in there, you will need to rebuild your diff, with new bearings etc..

but thats a separate problem

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:03 pm

hehehe might not be

If the pinion's that loose god knows what's been through the diff.

All the bearings and the R&P will probably need changing - it will have been running at a less than perfect pattern.

This is a common problem with sierra diffs with lockers and big tyres.

There's a second issue - you haven't taken the flange off to change a pinion seal at any stage have you?? The pinion flange nut sets preload on the pinion bearings via a crush sleeve. removing and replacing the pinion flange will affect this preload and causes the crush sleeve to loosen its preload, which starts some thrust on the pinion, and eventually leads to the mess you are now dealing with.

It might not have been the cause, it can just be lots of torque and or mud getting past the seal, but it's worth looking into.

It is possible to replace the problem prone crush sleeve with a solid spacer and shims but this needs to be set up by a very competent diff guy. Matt at total traction in Moorabbin has done this with a number of suzuki diffs.

Steve.

Post by **want33s** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:14 pm

Natto you bought a dodgy axle.... Should have got one from a more reputable supplier..

Just pull it all apart and have a look. The problem will soon be apparent.

Post by **built4thrashing** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:03 pm

hey suzuki boy shoot me a PM or call me if ya need some diff parts as i have a few spares lying about now. even got a good crush tube.

swap ya for the locka

Post by **suzuki boy** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:35 pm

Thanks heaps guys!

i'm hoping it's just a rebuild job! The mechanic over the road can do diffs. he wanted to start it the other night!

The only thing i'm worried about is if the pinion bearings callapsed and broke some teeth on the diff gears?

The axel was sweet as was turning nicely and straight as.

Not sure if that nut has been tampered with but we made sure it wasn't loose. It was tight as!

BUILT4THRASHIN if the diff is gone or some parts are gone i'm deffinatly keepin the locker or goin a locker again for sure! Don't know how i lived with out em! They make that much difference it's unbelievable!

Post by **built4thrashing** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:17 am

if you combined your twin lockers with some suspension travel you might find you dont bust quite so much stuff.

Post by **mugginsmoo** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:04 pm

it doesn't matter what the ring & pinion look like, if you have driven more than 5km on them they are stuffed. you can re-build the diff but it will make a lot of noise and will eventually break the ring and pinion.

your ring & pinion will have wear, if they have been driven on this makes it worse and will acctuatly put a "new wear" pattern on them. this has to do with them being made by Hitashi.

you will need a new ring and pinion, no matter what your mechanic thinks.
i've been down this path, $500 diff re-build, with new bearings and a solid sleave. and less than six months later and i've got the best paper weight you have ever seen.

Mitch

Post by **suzuki boy** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:00 pm

Well the diff comes out tommorow!

I'll let you know the verdict!

The guy over the road is a mechanic so i will only be paying for parts.....

Post by **suzuki boy** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:32 pm

Diffs out and the teeth and every look fine(I'm not a diff guy by any means!)

So i'm guesseing that it's the lock rite part somewhere! Hopefully a pin.

There where no metal shaving's i could see......

Was talkin to a guy who had the same thing hapen to his patrol in the front on the weekend and we are thinking it's maybe a bent pin

BUT it will hopefully be striped down and see what the proble is tonight!

Post by **lay80n** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:26 am

suzuki boy wrote:Diffs out and the teeth and every look fine(I'm not a diff guy by any means!)

So i'm guesseing that it's the lock rite part somewhere! Hopefully a pin.

There where no metal shaving's i could see......

Was talkin to a guy who had the same thing hapen to his patrol in the front on the weekend and we are thinking it's maybe a bent pin

BUT it will hopefully be striped down and see what the proble is tonight!

Fingers crossed for you. Post some pics of the diff & pinion teeth. If you do decide to re-use it, when you set your pattern compare it to any wear marks from the previous pattern, you will probably notice the difference.

Layto.....

Post by **suzuki boy** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:06 pm

Will post pics of the pinion and crown wheel when they up load!

Didn't strip it down last night hopefully tonight!

Post by **suzuki boy** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:34 pm

It's all stripped down ad my lock rite has 2 springs instead of pin's......

BUt these springs have snapped into 4 peices each!

So i have to track down these springs from lock rite direct i would think?

This is how i took the diff over!

And the brocken spring(Screw driver is pointing at it)

And the 2 springs......

So because these 2 springs had snapped it let the 2 plates slide down and lock the diff.......

Any way i gotta track down these springs now!

Got all the bearings off so will replace them while the diff's out!

Post by **11_evl** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:23 pm

dude, thats a weird ass looking diff center. where are the bolts near the bearings that split it. and are they big round springs that hold the gears apart?

Post by **hyzook** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:06 pm

11_evl wrote:dude, thats a weird ass looking diff center. where are the bolts near the bearings that split it. and are they big round springs that hold the gears apart?

x2 ??????

Post by **christover1** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:35 pm

Don't look like any lock rites that I have ever seen.
It appears to have the gear carrier replaced, it don't look zook to me.?

Post by **nicbeer** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:49 pm

spool?

or mayb a powertrax one

Post by **lay80n** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:43 am

Thats not a lock wrong

Or a detroit EZ locker

Layto....

Post by **11_evl** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:17 pm

its defintly had the complete carrier changed. looks aftermarket.
can u show us pics inside with it all split??

Post by **St Jimmy** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:41 pm

Could it be a limited slip from suzuki

Post by **dank** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:50 pm

yeah that thing is weird as. The only springs that came with my lockrite were for the pins and they were only about 8mm in diameter...not that huge...cool....something new and exciting for the forum to mull over

wouldn't be a spool...aren't they just one solid piece that replaced the center? they wouldn't need springs...and afaik Powertrax is owned by Richmond Gears that make the original Powertrax Lock-Right. the rip off version was somthing like a lokka wasn't it? don't know who it was made by but i thought the designs were similar.....

Post by **suzuki boy** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:51 pm

Hvae pic's on the other computer but I have from a good source it's a detroit locker.......

You blokes think it custom?

The crown wheel and pinion looked brand new!

Rung up some place i got the number off the net and they didn't sell parts for the LOCK RITE and gave me a number to another place...... they said they didn't have parts either and sent me to BBM......Talked to RICK i think

and he said it's not a LOCKRITE its a LOKKA so i rung them up and they daid they didn't have a diff lock for a zook and said it sounded like a DETROIT!

I talked to TONY at USA4X4(KNow him very well) and i have sent him pic's and he said it sounds like a DETROIT(Remeber there are 3 types of detroit lockers!) i have emailed him pics and he will get back to me tommorow!

The mechanic over the road talked to his diff guy and he said it sounds like a DETROIT And i would have to go through a place that makes parts for the DETROIT lockers!

So keep the coments coming and i'll let you know what i end up finding out!

Post by **suzuki boy** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:54 pm

11_evl wrote:dude, thats a weird ass looking diff center. where are the bolts near the bearings that split it. and are they big round springs that hold the gears apart?

The crown wheel is bolted to the diff lock bit and that whole locker bit with the spline for the axels and every thing is all in the diff lock thing!

The springs are in the actuall diff lock witch has about 4 plates and the springs force the plates out then when one turns faster than the other i gueese it pushes the prings in and disconects.....

Will post pic's of the inside of the actuall diff lock in a minute!

Post by **suzuki boy** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:28 pm

Was just doing something under the bonnet and i saw a badge on the fire wall......

It says the locker is a NO SPIN(Mechanic over the road said thats exactly the same a detroit and there in melbourne somewhere around thomastown....

) The model number, what oil it takes and the serial number!

It was supplied by DIFF TRANS SPARES P/L With the phone number of (02) 647 1033 thats a sydney number should i try ring it? Doesn't even have a 9 infront of it!

Any way photobucket is down or else you would have pic's of the locker it's self and this plate i found!

Post by **Sarge** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:49 pm

Those springs, just by size look like a high-bias limited slip . Does the internal parts actually have teeth or are they like clutch disks ?
I'd bet anything that is not by Detroit , they don't market any diff of that type for the Suzuki's .
Sarge

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