just wondering if anyone has any experience with this process. Im in a position where the rear axles in the pajero 9" diff just dont handle the 35"s, 5.29s and locker. Its broken several axles, one ended up with the car on its roof with the previous owner.
just wondering, i spoke to a guy the other day about cryo treatment, and the results he could not guarantee. "you might not notice any difference, but you might get ten times the life, it all depends on the actual axle."
so yeh, its a relatively inexpensive process, just wondering bang for buck, is it worth a go???
otherwise trying to get some 4340 semi floating custom axles done??? anyone got ideas in sydney????
cheers in advance.
dean.
Notice: We request that you don't just set up a new account at this time if you are a previous user.
If you used to be one of our moderators, please feel free to reach out to Chris via the facebook Outerlimits4x4 group and he will get you set back up with access should he need you.
If you used to be one of our moderators, please feel free to reach out to Chris via the facebook Outerlimits4x4 group and he will get you set back up with access should he need you.
Recovery:If you cannot access your old email address and don't remember your password, please click here to log a change of email address so you can do a password reset.
Cryo treatment.
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
custom axles will be quite expensive, like 600ish each, depending on length, width, spline, axle flanges etc. so go the cryo first. the axles might be alot cheaper to do now but that the sort of prices i was looking at a few years ago for a full custom length for a 9 inch f100
turbos are nice but i'd rather be blown
Cryo treatment is a scam. We deal with a gearbox specialist providing internal gearing for motorsport use that sends his stuff all round the world.
I asked him about the benefits of "cryogenic treatment" and he laughed, he said real testing shows no measurable difference and it's a waste of money.
Also he said it seems to be done by a backyard cottage industry with no real quality control at all.
They get their gearsets "micro finished" by another local company who also are involved in the motorsport industry and this process does work. I've seen diff gears, gearsets, valve springs and crankshafts that look like they've been polished to a bright finish.
Essentially this process removes the rough spots inherent in casting and machining and helps with heat and stress removal.
Regards Andrew.
I asked him about the benefits of "cryogenic treatment" and he laughed, he said real testing shows no measurable difference and it's a waste of money.
Also he said it seems to be done by a backyard cottage industry with no real quality control at all.
They get their gearsets "micro finished" by another local company who also are involved in the motorsport industry and this process does work. I've seen diff gears, gearsets, valve springs and crankshafts that look like they've been polished to a bright finish.
Essentially this process removes the rough spots inherent in casting and machining and helps with heat and stress removal.
Regards Andrew.
We are Tig welders, gravity doesn't worry us.
[img]http://www.studmonkeyracing.com/forums/smilies/weld.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.studmonkeyracing.com/forums/smilies/weld.gif[/img]
cryo has a similar efect to nitriding, it is a case hardening efect that is usually only very shallow. It is good for holdind a sharp edge but I would not of thought it a structural upgrade. We useually only got around a 0.07mm deep skin.
I used to get alot of stuff cryoed in the mid n late 90's. Its benefit is it is a more dimensionally stable process.
I used to get alot of stuff cryoed in the mid n late 90's. Its benefit is it is a more dimensionally stable process.
cryo
cheers fellas,
yeh thats what i wasnt sure about, especially when the guy himself turned around and said, "it might make no difference, or it might make heaps". He said that some customers are ecstatic with results while others are disappointed.
as far as custom axles go, dads brothers head of eng. UNSW, and dads been an enginner for years, both have people that owe them some favours so going to see what i can machined up that way.
But otherwise, like you have said ruff, may be time for complete diff assembly swap. Biggest deterant for this is the fact the rear diff has air locker, 5.29s and all the links already on it. Can get full floater done on the paj diff, but $$$$ and time. But then, the price is similiar by the time i buy another locker, 5.29s, get all the link mounts done on another diff, custom axles for said diff.
so annoying, dont know what to do....
dean.
yeh thats what i wasnt sure about, especially when the guy himself turned around and said, "it might make no difference, or it might make heaps". He said that some customers are ecstatic with results while others are disappointed.
as far as custom axles go, dads brothers head of eng. UNSW, and dads been an enginner for years, both have people that owe them some favours so going to see what i can machined up that way.
But otherwise, like you have said ruff, may be time for complete diff assembly swap. Biggest deterant for this is the fact the rear diff has air locker, 5.29s and all the links already on it. Can get full floater done on the paj diff, but $$$$ and time. But then, the price is similiar by the time i buy another locker, 5.29s, get all the link mounts done on another diff, custom axles for said diff.
so annoying, dont know what to do....dean.
Nastytroll, how are you measuring the skin effect of cryo? We have a mettalurgical lab here at work and have been asked in the past to "measure" the effect of cryo and could find no way of doing it.
I'm happy that it may provide improved dimensional properties but in terms of increased strength I don't believe the result is measureable, but if there's a way, let me know.
Even if it did work as well as it's proponents claim, evey part and grade of material would require a different treatment, just like heat treating. As Awill4X4 pointed out, I don't believe the quality control is adequate or procedures are well organised enough to take this into account.
Steve.
I'm happy that it may provide improved dimensional properties but in terms of increased strength I don't believe the result is measureable, but if there's a way, let me know.
Even if it did work as well as it's proponents claim, evey part and grade of material would require a different treatment, just like heat treating. As Awill4X4 pointed out, I don't believe the quality control is adequate or procedures are well organised enough to take this into account.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
It's a complete mystery metallurgy wise as I have yet to see a time/temp/transformation diagram which shows anything below 0 deg C.
I've seen polishd and etched specimens which show cryo-treatment having similar results to heated and quenched steel.
But that means little if the guys doing the process don't follow that exact same proceedure.
I've seen polishd and etched specimens which show cryo-treatment having similar results to heated and quenched steel.
But that means little if the guys doing the process don't follow that exact same proceedure.
the cryo seemed to give less destortion then the nitriding, we where asures it had the same properties as nitriding, wich we got supposedly at 3 thou deep.
We only had a rockwell scale tester on site so had to take heat treatments word for it. We did test the effects with some drill bits n other assorted cutting tools being treated n their improoved life.
We did still use nitriding aswell as cryo, not on the same components though. Most components from memory were done for abbrasion resistance n we found the cryo was better for thin components, less distorsion n less growing.
Cryo may we good for skin hardening on gear faces if having crown n pinion made from a tougher material to stop the faces wearing.
This is personal experience only n it has been awile since I have done alot of heat treatment
KiwiBacon would be more in the know, I'm just a dumb ass toolmaker so can only speak from practicle experience, but like he said I have never seen any concreate evedence that says this is any better than any other process for strength. We had to rely on heat treatment for most information but did find with some of the case hardening and through hardening the specified targets where not acheived.
Having said all this most high load shafts n gears are only induction hardend most of the time.
We only had a rockwell scale tester on site so had to take heat treatments word for it. We did test the effects with some drill bits n other assorted cutting tools being treated n their improoved life.
We did still use nitriding aswell as cryo, not on the same components though. Most components from memory were done for abbrasion resistance n we found the cryo was better for thin components, less distorsion n less growing.
Cryo may we good for skin hardening on gear faces if having crown n pinion made from a tougher material to stop the faces wearing.
This is personal experience only n it has been awile since I have done alot of heat treatment
KiwiBacon would be more in the know, I'm just a dumb ass toolmaker so can only speak from practicle experience, but like he said I have never seen any concreate evedence that says this is any better than any other process for strength. We had to rely on heat treatment for most information but did find with some of the case hardening and through hardening the specified targets where not acheived.
Having said all this most high load shafts n gears are only induction hardend most of the time.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests