winch solenoids - whats the best??

[1MadEngineer]

OK, i need to find some decent winch solenoids, but cant decide. are the titan ones ok, or allbright?? or just make my own out of HD starter sol's??

i just had a look at the titan ones and they claim 200Amp continious, i am just a bit concerned as a 5.5hp motor can pull up to 600amp(peak).

Any ideas??

[RoldIT]

200amp continuous is excellent which would probably mean 600amp peak for 5 seconds. To the best of my knowledge, winch motor only hits those sort of numbers at stall which is when (most people) release the button anyway.

If you are not confident with the ratings of 1 solenoid, run 2 in parrallel.

ie 2 solenoids, 2 sets of cables from same power source to same motor.

That will give you 400amp continuous with solenoid failure redundancy. This will also combat voltage drop due to having twice the copper carrying the power load to the motor. This is also a good thing from a performance perspective.

This is a pricey options but no more pricey than building your own solenoid pack with high 4 high current starter solenoids. Building your own pack will not have any of the benifits mentioned above.

[1MadEngineer]

200amp continuous is excellent which would probably mean 600amp peak for 5 seconds. To the best of my knowledge, winch motor only hits those sort of numbers at stall which is when (most people) release the button anyway.

If you are not confident with the ratings of 1 solenoid, run 2 in parrallel.

ie 2 solenoids, 2 sets of cables from same power source to same motor.

That will give you 400amp continuous with solenoid failure redundancy. This will also combat voltage drop due to having twice the copper carrying the power load to the motor. This is also a good thing from a performance perspective.

This is a pricey options but no more pricey than building your own solenoid pack with high 4 high current starter solenoids. Building your own pack will not have any of the benifits mentioned above.

i think building my own packs might be the way to go!! either way it will need paralleled "IN" solonoids. HD sol's are only $30-$40 each so a 6 sol pack would cost very similar to a single TITAN, but give me twice the current capacity on the IN. (although not as neat) Space will be at a premium as i need to have pack for each of the 3 motors
If i can find the money before TT i will try and get 3 TITANS (or similar if cheaper) and run the extra sol's to help cop the load.

[+dj_hansen+]

Pretty sure Wally (80UTE) made his own HD packs as you are talking about using 6 solinoids (4 in and 2 out) and used platinum bus bars (IIRC) for its very low resistance.

Here you go.....
http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

[toughnut]

Don't waste your time with normal winch solenoid packs. I've seen heaps of setups in comps, all of which are the "best" setup you can get and heaps have failed. The only solenoids that I have not seen fail are the solid state coils.

Check out this link to see what I'm talking about.
http://www.hotfrog.com.au/Companies/Ext ... px?id=7259

Chat to EXTREME MMM on this site for prices or I'm sure there are a couple of other guys that can help as well.

[bog warrior]

Albright are now making a heavy duty contactor Part no. DC88-540PL
and the price is about 59 pounds. There is also a Warn contactor part no.34971 whch is a triple pole one, even more heavy duty.Albright make the Warn contactor but you can only buy it through Warn. They are about twice the size off the titan contactors.And the price is 210 pounds.

[toughnut]

Albright are now making a heavy duty contactor Part no. DC88-540PL
and the price is about 59 pounds. There is also a Warn contactor part no.34971 whch is a triple pole one, even more heavy duty.Albright make the Warn contactor but you can only buy it through Warn. They are about twice the size off the titan contactors.And the price is 210 pounds.

They really are the shiznit.

[cj]

So my question is, how many people with the Titan's have had a problem with them not coping? From what I have heard they seem to be coping with comps ok, are small, light and cost effective and carrying a spare isn't a big deal.

[toughnut]

So my question is, how many people with the Titan's have had a problem with them not coping? From what I have heard they seem to be coping with comps ok, are small, light and cost effective and carrying a spare isn't a big deal.

I'm pretty sure that Heath Lawson ran these at Outback Challenge in 2006 after struggling with them for a few days I gave him my spare albright and he hasn't used another one since.

[MightyMouse]

The SPARTAN "solid state" solenoids got me a bit confused.....

If it's solid state ( which I assumed to be semiconductor ) why does it mention :

"A key feature of the Solenoid is the use of Silver Cadmium Oxide (AgCdO) coated contacts which resist arching when switching currents, this eliminates a common cause of failure among the common “style” solenoids..."

Also the forward voltage drop of high powered semiconductors seems to be a problem ( around 6V @ 600A for an IGBT ) so if you have two in circuit theres virtually no voltage for the winch.

I wonder whats going on ?

[toughnut]

I really don't know about the magic involved but they have been way more reliable for me and I had less voltage drop to the winch.

[cj]

So my question is, how many people with the Titan's have had a problem with them not coping? From what I have heard they seem to be coping with comps ok, are small, light and cost effective and carrying a spare isn't a big deal.

I'm pretty sure that Heath Lawson ran these at Outback Challenge in 2006 after struggling with them for a few days I gave him my spare albright and he hasn't used another one since.

What was he running? 12V or 24V? Motors?

[toughnut]

Can't remember off the top of my head. I've run both 12 and 24 through both types and the solid state still wins.

[MightyMouse]

I really don't know about the magic involved but they have been way more reliable for me and I had less voltage drop to the winch.

Its certainly a mystery then... Solid state and low voltage drop aren't usually compatible especially when compared with solenoids.

[roverrat]

http://www.extremelimitsoffroad.com.au/prod164.htm

[ausoops]

http://www.extremelimitsoffroad.com.au/prod164.htm

isn't that just a different name/brand/rebranded titan?

as for it being solid state or relay, does it click when it is switched on? if it doesn't click its solid state if it clicks its a relay

[beretta]

Titans are not solid state in the true sense, I can tell you that for sure, they do go click! But they are lot better than stringing six or four old style solenoids together IMHO.

I created Titan and have been doing them for two plus years now roughly. The original unit (single unit) that I brought is still in Paul Gambells 80 Series winch challenge truck, it's done 2 plus years of competition including Cliffhanger, OBC, Woodpecker, Willowglen, Tamworth round of the XWC series and a long list of other events, plus personal play time and it is still operating as good as the day it went in.

I have done a few hundred of these units now and have had a sub 1% failure rate, yes I have had a small number fail, why I don't know, maybe a bad batch, maybe wired wrong, its hard to say.
What I can tell you is that 99% have way out performed the traditional solenoid design. They are simple and compact, and best of all cheap in comparison to other alternatives. I don't claim that they are invincible, because everything has limitations, and these days winches are just unreal compared to when I first started playing around with these things.

There are some other brands available now around the place, including the one mentioned earlier, they are nothing to do with Titan and I have no idea on their quality or reliability, not saying they are good or bad.

[roverrat]

ditto what beretta said ... I posted a while ago about my sols playing up on m12000, ended up putting one of these in and have had no dramas even after submersion and Kal red dust

[DiscoDino]

x3 on Albrights!

[1MadEngineer]

thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated.

So from all that i think my best option is to make my own 6 sol packs (x3).

Has any one use any surge suppression eg fly-back diodes?? or capacitors to limit contact arcing??

[toughnut]

thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated.

So from all that i think my best option is to make my own 6 sol packs (x3).

You haven't really read this thread for the advice have you. Everyone agrees that the albright or titans are better. Not sure how you've come to the conclusion that your best option (not to mention most expensive) is to still build a 6pack.

[uninformed]

im also curious to why your going elec over hyd???

i though you where pro hyd?

cheers, Serg

[1MadEngineer]

thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated.

So from all that i think my best option is to make my own 6 sol packs (x3).

You haven't really read this thread for the advice have you. Everyone agrees that the albright or titans are better. Not sure how you've come to the conclusion that your best option (not to mention most expensive) is to still build a 6pack.

Mate,
i have taken onboard all the replies, and yes the allbright seem to be the best!! but at $240+ per unit for something with a 200Amp continious rating it is NOT the most cost effective in this application (2 x $240= $480). I need to handle 400+Amp continious so $ for $, 6 x $30 200A HD sol's (=$180 for 400A). so in reality i could run an 8 sol pack and i would be way in front!!!
You should know i hate redoing things and i ALWAYS way overspec everything, thats why we have been so successful over the years.

This setup is for a new 3motor winch so yes there are going to be heaps of solenoids, and at least i might get a bulk discount!!


As for building a hydraulic i have most of the bits for ours and i am awaiting the delivery of a new-generation motor for one i am building for a current XWC competitor. This thing is awesome, unheard of power and speed (and a ridiculous price!!), using the latest technology pumps and motors - it can draw 65crank HP and upto 300nm of torque it needs to run 16mm plasma!!

[toughnut]

This setup is for a new 3motor winch so yes there are going to be heaps of solenoids, and at least i might get a bulk discount!!

HMMM didn't see that bit in the thread. The albrights have work well on twin motor setups though. 3 would be pushing the friendship though. The problem that heath had with his solenoid pack was that it was mounted horizontally and when he had a big flop with the front of the truck they switch themselves on and locked on. He bent his winch bar and did a bit of other damage to his trucks front end.

[MightyMouse]

In the electrical engineering world - parallel contacts do not produce doubling of the expected life span in power applications.

In reality they do not close or open simultaneously resulting in the leading contact making the full current and of course the trailing one breaking it.

Of course once they are "in" then the benefits of parallel operation may be of value - but as far as life span is concerned its not a solution.

Silver is a terrific material for high power switch contacts - the contact make action is not simply pressing two bits of metal together - its way more complex, involving the creation of microwelds resulting in extremely low on resistances. Its a subject in its own right. The use of silver for POWER contacts is no accident.

And a bit out of the box so to speak - if the bridge solenoids were closed under no load and then power applied via a fifth large solenoid they would be subject to significantly less electrical wear.