engine rotates but wont kick over???

[islandvitara]

hi all me again,

took the engine cover off my sierra (1.3L carby) too clean it up and paint it orange...but when i had to take it off i couldnt because the distributer was in the way - i didnt know at the time but i un-did the 14mm nut (i think its 14mm might be 12mm) anyways i undid it got the cover off and painted it ect ect..

after i put it back together the engine would rotate but wouldnt start!!!! its got a brand new battery, fuel in the tank ect... i forgot to tightin THAT nut up so i did it back up and it still wouldnt start..????

what have i done wrong????

is the nut supposed to line up to where it was before i undid it? as i moved it so that i could get the cover off...


help man

cheers, islandvit

[ScrawnC]

That is how you set your timing, by moving the distributor. Just undo the nut again and move the dissy back to where it was. Line it up with the dirt/dust mark that it left when you undid it.

[Highway-Star]

I presume you mean the nut that holds the sliding part of the distributer. This controls the spark timing of the engine (co-ordination of spark plug firing and piston motion). Don't try starting untill you get it close to correct to avoid damage.

You should have a timing light to do this correctly, and you will need to set your timing acording to the little sticker under the bonnet (10deg BTDC) I think it says.

On your timing chain cover there are timing marks above the bottom pulley, this is where you shine the timing light untill you see it reading the angle BTDC.

I would belive that a service manual would give a thorough description of how to do timing if you know nothing about what I'm saying.

If you can remember exactly where it was before you moved it, you could just put it back, but I presume you didn't mark it?

[islandvitara]

thanks guys, yeah i did mark it with a screw driver, i tryed puting it back but still didnt kick over...i'll try again this arvo moving it say millimeter by millimeter and i should find the position i assume..

and yes it was the sliding thing that the distributer is on, i moved it to get the cover off and thats where im at now..should of know better

i'll try what you guys said and get back at yas


cheers, fellas islandvit

[dank]

check all wires to your coil as well which is the cylindrical thing near the distributor. an earth wire fell off on mine and it would turn over but not fire. took me ages to figure it out

[islandvitara]

is that the lead connecting from the dissy to the cylindrical thing? i'll have a check tonight thanks for the tip

cheers islandvit

[Brendan-s]

That's the coil lead, check that's definitely connected (make sure it's making a good conection, I've had that problem before). But I think he's referring to the two wires that come off either side of the coil. They screw on with a tiny nut.

[11_evl]

when u took the bolt out and turned the thingy to get the cover off, by any chance did u lift the thingy at all??

[v840]

Did you remove the distributor cap? If so did you put it back on the right way up? Sounds like its out by 180.

[DieselZook]

Sounds like
1. you have no spark (as dank was refering to) or
2. timing is way out (as Highway-Star was refering to). Most probable as I think it would have been the vaccuum diaphram (controlls the vaccuum advance) that was stopping you removing the cover, and you would have either lifted it a bit or taken it right out which means that when you put it back the rotor may have turned inside so now it is engaging with a different gear hence throwing the timing out.

Check point 2 first, timing
a. SAFETY FIRST remove key from ignition, and disconect the high tention lead from the coil to the distrbutor. (You don't want the engine fireing when your hand are around the fan and v-belt)
b. Locate the timing marks on the timing belt cover. They are just above the crank pulley, below the fan belt. Best if you use a lead light or torch to help.
c. Using a 17mm socket on the nose of the crank, turn the crank so that the timing mark on the crank pulley (usually marked white for easy identification) is lined up with the zero on the timing marks on the timing belt cover.
d. Now trace the lead spark plug lead from cylinder 1 (the very front one) back the the distributor. (Distrubutor probably has the number 1 marked on it for you (as well as 2, 3 and 4)). Mark where no.1 lead lines on the distibutor body (either by rubbing the dust off or a small screwdriver scratch) ie straight under the distributor cap, not the cap itself.
e. take the cap off. Is the rotor button lined up with the mark you just made OR pointing straight blow it (ie 180 degrees on the rotor button)? If it 180 degrees out that means that you are firing 4 instead of 1 and that is OK because the rotor button moved 180 degrees for every 360 degrees the crank moved. If you are not satisfied rotote the crank one full revolution and line it up on the timing marks again. Also When I mean lined up I mean that it is close enough that it could be lined up by twisting the distributor within the limits of the adjustment on that first bolt you took out, That should be close enough to get you engine running, just not optimal. If its not lined up, this is you problem, report back to us if you don't know how to fix it and someone will explain it to you. If it is lined up it could still be out for the reasons mentioned above ie rotor button 180 degrees out. But initially if it is lined up assume it is right. Go onto checking if there is spark.

checking point 1, spark.
a. Put every thing back together. Pull a spark plug out (doesn't really matter which one) and plug it back into its high tention lead. rest the metal bit of the spark plug against some exposed metal of the engine. Make sure it rests there without you touching it, and also make sure there is no petrol around as you could end up with a fire.
b. get an assistant to wind the motor over while you observe the spark plug. Do you see sparks jumping between gap? If not try moving the spark plug to get a better metal to metal contact and try again? If you do get spark then most likely that is ok (as plug usually don't fail that quick) If you don't, that could be you problem, so start checking your wireing.

Sorry about the long winded explaination, but I hope I can get you onto diagnosing you problem.

[DieselZook]

Did you remove the distributor cap? If so did you put it back on the right way up? Sounds like its out by 180.

Usually impossible to do as there is a lug on the distributor and a corrisponding notch in the cap that only allows it to go on one way

[islandvitara]

when u took the bolt out and turned the thingy to get the cover off, by any chance did u lift the thingy at all??

nah i didnt all i did was loosen the 12mm nut on the cylindriacl thing and move it towards the fire wall to get the cover off..

[islandvitara]

that is GOLD!!!!! cheers diesel zook,

im printing this thread out and will put it to work this arvo after work

i didnt take it out or lift it a bit all i did was loosen the 12mm nut on the sliding thing and move it towards the fire wall so that the engine cover could lift upwards and out.. i moved it like 10mm towards the firewall..

after i painted the cover i put it back together and it didnt kickover.. i tryed to put the nut back to where it was (tryed moving it in increments til i found the position it was in) but cant..

like last night i tryed and it was rotating and it would make a poping noise? like it was backfiring or something.. sounded like it was coming from the carby??

im not sure where it was but def sounde like it was the carby..

what could that be?

thanks for the help everyone heaps helpfull!!!

[ScrawnC]

That is backfiring up through the carby. Usually makes that sound when the timing is out. Might pay to get yourself a cheap timing light from Repco or Super Crap and set the timing properly.

[DieselZook]

That is backfiring up through the carby. Usually makes that sound when the timing is out. Might pay to get yourself a cheap timing light from Repco or Super Crap and set the timing properly.

x2 Usually a sign of way wrong timing. And a timing light is a good tool to have in your kit (but not for me coz i'm diesel ) While your at it see if you can pick up a copy of a Haynes workshop manual for the sierra. It came in handy

[islandvitara]

yeah ive got a copy of hanyes workshop manual for the sierra/vitara i will get a timing light this arvo and have a crack at it never done this before so we'll see how it goes



cheers, fellas

islandvit

[DieselZook]

Did you manage to get it going yet?

[islandvitara]

nah not yet, havnt been able to pick up a timing light yet..

im goin over ot super cheap auto (macgregor) this arvo to get a timing light then im going to have a crack at it..

i checked all the leads and they're fine too.

[islandvitara]

heya everone, thanks heaps for your info i have managed to reset the ignition timing on my sierra!!!!

went and bought a cheap $19.95 timing light from supercheap auto, followed your (everyones advice) plus the haynes repair bible and now my sierra is back in action!!!!

so while i did the timing i also flushed and changed the oil (castrol Magnatec) and changed the fuel filter & oil filter.....the fuel filter was almost black

well after, that the engine ran really smooth, all that made a major difference

i also noticed that i had arranged the spark plug leads in the wrong order - i put number 1 lead on the 4th sparkplug at the back and number 4 lead on the 1st spark plug at the front...was that bad??

i rearranged them last night 1 at the front 4 at the back and i guess it was running heaps better


NOW....after all that the engine was revving high at idle!!! at around 1800rpm - 2000rpm. i let it idle for 10mins before i checked it and it didnt drop either?? how do i set the idle speed? i read the haynes bible and it didnt help much because the pics didnt really detail where it was (the idle screw)

heres some pics of/around the carby where the im assuming (from the haynes bible picture) is where the idle screw is - somewhere.















can anyone point out where it is or give a detailed description of where it is...???

sorry for the long post but i need a little help



thanks, islandvit [/img]

[Hybrid]

Its been a while since I played/looked at a carb from a 1.3 but i'm about 98% sure that it is the screw dead centre of your picture 3 (flat blade screw driver one). Its accessed from the back right hand side when looking at the carb from in front of the car. Back it off anti clockwise to drop the idle

Out of curiousity what did you set the timing to? The only thing you've done that would effect your idle is the timing. To bring it up to 1800-2000 from, I'm guessing, your original 900-1000 it must have been advanced a fair bit from its earlier setting. Mine used to idle at 1200 with the idle screw wound right out till I realised the guy before me had the timing set around 14 degrees.

John

[islandvitara]

Its been a while since I played/looked at a carb from a 1.3 but i'm about 98% sure that it is the screw dead centre of your picture 3 (flat blade screw driver one). Its accessed from the back right hand side when looking at the carb from in front of the car. Back it off anti clockwise to drop the idle

Out of curiousity what did you set the timing too? The only thing you've done that would effect your idle is the timing. To bring it up to 1800-2000 from, I'm guessing, your original 900-1000 it must have been advanced a fair bit from its setting earlier setting. Mine used to idle at 1200 with the idle screw wound right out till I realised the guy before me had the timing set around 14 degrees.

John

ohh righto yeah i set it to 10 degrees BTDC as the sticker said under the bonnet..

but in saying that when i was adjusting it with the engine running, i noticed that the idle sounded right past the 0 degree mark (at this point i hadnt adjusted the dissy sliding thing)?? maybe i need to readjust the timing with the distributor sliding thing and then play around with the idle speed screw?

[ScrawnC]

Before you go playing too much just do a check of all vacuum hoses around the inlet manifold, dizzy, air box, etc. A vacuum leak will cause it to idle high and you may have just knocked one off without knowing.
How did it run before all this happened? Was it flat at all? Someone may have adjusted timing wrong to fix high idling issues. Check the choke is coming full off too.

[Highway-Star]

Its been a while since I played/looked at a carb from a 1.3 but i'm about 98% sure that it is the screw dead centre of your picture 3 (flat blade screw driver one). Its accessed from the back right hand side when looking at the carb from in front of the car. Back it off anti clockwise to drop the idle

I thought that was the cold idle? and the warm idle was the bolt stop on the accelerator lever? Its been a while since I tuned mine, but I'm pretty sure thats how it was.

And just as an aside, the little vacume mechanism on the front of the carb shown in the last picture is for the load idle, for when lights and/or fan is on. It can be adjusted by the little screw at the bottom with the spring around it.

[Hybrid]

Before you go playing too much just do a check of all vacuum hoses around the inlet manifold, dizzy, air box, etc. A vacuum leak will cause it to idle high and you may have just knocked one off without knowing.
How did it run before all this happened? Was it flat at all? Someone may have adjusted timing wrong to fix high idling issues. Check the choke is coming full off too.

Yeah actually a vac problem would be more likely be the cause if your timing is right.

[foolsp33d]

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic952 ... light=carb

maybe the idle jets are blocked and he has turned the timing to compensate!?

but check the vacume lines first..

and the warm idle was the bolt stop on the accelerator lever?

yeh mines on the bottom of the accelerator stopper to..

[islandvitara]

hmm...where are the vacume lines? and how many are there?

[ScrawnC]

The vacuum lines are the small, black rubber hoses that run from inlet manifold to carby, air box, dizzy, etc. Not sure how many.

[ScrawnC]

Just had another look at your photos and saw the pod filter. There should be a vacuum line running to the airbox that controls the flap for the warm air from the exhaust when cold. You need to track down that vacuum line and make sure it has been plugged up with a bolt or something. If it has just been left that will be causing the high idle.

[DieselZook]

First tell us when you found out that no.1 and no.4 leads were the wrong way around? Before you timed it or after?, And what about 2 and 3?

Swaping 1 and 4 is not going to do damage because what you are doing is fireing the spark just when you have exhausted your charge and drawing in a new one. No compression, and you are either igniting the charge in the exhaust pipe or intake manifold (hence the small poping sound) and valves are open for aprox 180 degrees before and after the spark event, so there is a lot of space for the burning charge to go.

Just for your information, this screw sets your base idle.


But check your timing again (After you have made sure the leads are the right way around). make sure you haven't done something silly like set it to 5 degree before or maybe even after top dead centre. Retarding the spark at idle with no load will cause the idle speed to rise.

[foolsp33d]

and the one under the accelerator lever is just a stopper for the return?!?