Folks,
After the trip to the Watagans on the weekend, which was the biggest test I've put the MQ and its L28 through, she is sounding a little worse for wear.
I had the exhaust pipe reattached, which fixed much of the noise. The bloke that did the work said the engine is missing (oops - the engine has a miss I mean!). Sure enough, with the exhaust noise fixed, you could clearly hear a miss under power. I figured it was a left over from the water which killed one cylinder for a little while after driving through a mud puddle.
So over the last couple of afternoons, I've pulled all the plugs, all the high tension leads and the distributor. I've cleaned, dried, tightened and WD40'ed all contacts. I thought this helped a little bit, but now the condition is getting no better.
I thought I found the culprit when I pulled the number 4 plug, because it didn't have the light brown coating on the contacts like the others. Thinking it wasn't sparking, I held it out against the block and ran the engine. Spark seemed fine. Instead, I'm now concentrating on the oily residue on the plug after running the engine for only a few minutes. Would this oily residue mean that either the rings or the valve seats are shot?
I should point out that I ran the Super engine on Optimax for the weekend, and left my upper cylinder lubricant additive at home. I thought a weekend on premium fuel wouldn't be so bad, but maybe it has killed the valve seats? My bigger fear is that it is bottom end stuff...
Now, the engine runs 'fine' except:
- idle is very slightly uneven
- stamping on the go pedal from idle comes with a short delay before revving up
- there is some car shudder during these rev up periods
- putting the engine under load at low revs gives a 'choking' feeling as the power really dies
- driving up a slight hill you can easily hear the miss
- every now and then, particularly at the instant you back off the throttle, there will be a small, fairly high pitched 'pop'!
So what do you think - is my poor engine shagged? I think I'll be going back to the mechanic early next week. I want to drive home to Tamworth for xmas, and don't want to be driving the car far in its condition.
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Grave fears for my L28
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Grave fears for my L28
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
...But it does still backfire ever now and then 
Thanks for the comments. I actually received an email response that included a link to a page showing pre 1986 engines which should run ULP or Premium (the L28 was listed). I think it is significant enough to repeat here:
http://www.aip.com.au/health/lead_guide.htm
Mmm, I'm leaning towards valve sealing problems (only on a hunch though!). I don't have the tools to do a compression test though, so can't do that unfortunately.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the pop? It really is an odd noise, not like an exhaust pop. It sorta feels like there is a pressure release, that has been building up while the engine is under load. As soon as you back off the throttle just a smidgen, it releases and the engine gives a sigh.
Any other things I can do before sending it into the shop? I was planning on pulling the plug leads one by one while the engine is running, to see if I can identify a bad cylinder. Problem is, it only really sounds like it is missing when the clutch is out and the engine under load. I can probably simulate that a bit though.
http://www.aip.com.au/health/lead_guide.htm
Mmm, I'm leaning towards valve sealing problems (only on a hunch though!). I don't have the tools to do a compression test though, so can't do that unfortunately.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the pop? It really is an odd noise, not like an exhaust pop. It sorta feels like there is a pressure release, that has been building up while the engine is under load. As soon as you back off the throttle just a smidgen, it releases and the engine gives a sigh.
Any other things I can do before sending it into the shop? I was planning on pulling the plug leads one by one while the engine is running, to see if I can identify a bad cylinder. Problem is, it only really sounds like it is missing when the clutch is out and the engine under load. I can probably simulate that a bit though.
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
Heathx4 wrote:Thanks for the comments. I actually received an email response that included a link to a page showing pre 1986 engines which should run ULP or Premium (the L28 was listed). I think it is significant enough to repeat here:
http://www.aip.com.au/health/lead_guide.htm
Mmm, I'm leaning towards valve sealing problems (only on a hunch though!). I don't have the tools to do a compression test though, so can't do that unfortunately.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the pop? It really is an odd noise, not like an exhaust pop. It sorta feels like there is a pressure release, that has been building up while the engine is under load. As soon as you back off the throttle just a smidgen, it releases and the engine gives a sigh.
Any other things I can do before sending it into the shop? I was planning on pulling the plug leads one by one while the engine is running, to see if I can identify a bad cylinder. Problem is, it only really sounds like it is missing when the clutch is out and the engine under load. I can probably simulate that a bit though.
that's a really handy link
Miss
Sounds to me like a washed out cylinder. When you drive for an extended period with one pot not firing the unburnt fuel will wash out all the lube in the rings and bugger up the rings and pot real quick. give it a compression test, and i bet the compression is really low in that pot! Squirt a few pumps of oil in the pot and try again The compression should come up. But in saying that it won't stay up.
Mmm, just rang the mech. He reckons it will be the rings in that cylinder, given that oil appears on the spark plug after only a few minutes. And in that case, he reckons the cylinder has probably gone too by now. In other words, the engine is beyond a little TLC.
So I'm a bit screwed. What would people suggest at this stage? Another cheap L28 to replace it? A V8 conversion? Junk the car and save up for another?
This sucks poo right now.
So I'm a bit screwed. What would people suggest at this stage? Another cheap L28 to replace it? A V8 conversion? Junk the car and save up for another?
This sucks poo right now.
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
a bad plug lead wont necessarily show up unless actually under load(driving) ...oil on plug could be stuffed motor, but could also be poor spark on that cylinder, it may still look fine to you, but may not be firing proper on road.... many possible causes, small cracks in dizzy cap etc. proper compression test/tune up check is needed before engine rebuild, as it may not be needed. christover
4WD SUZUKI CLUB VICTORIA
http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com/forum/
http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com/forum/
God of Magnificant Ideas!
Heathx4 wrote:Mmm, just rang the mech. He reckons it will be the rings in that cylinder, given that oil appears on the spark plug after only a few minutes. And in that case, he reckons the cylinder has probably gone too by now. In other words, the engine is beyond a little TLC.
So I'm a bit screwed. What would people suggest at this stage? Another cheap L28 to replace it? A V8 conversion? Junk the car and save up for another?
This sucks poo right now.
pends on the $$$$$$$$$$$
best option $$$$$ wise for a temp fix it.... get another L28 (been advertised here in the 4sale section)
If ya cant get one a L24 Skyline motor fits ... the only diff is the sump and oil pickup positions..... b4 you ask "NO" ya cant convert the sump.....<< been there !
Save up some $$$ for the V8 and do the conversion later on, You dont sound mechanicly minded so add a fist full of $$$ just for labor unless ya prepared to learn.
p\s...... V8 is the only way to GO !
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
Mmm, I'd love to think you might be right, but I don't feel that way. I'll try swapping the leads, but I don't think it will help. Then again, I'm all depressed and don't *really* know what I'm talking about. Anyone got a compression tester thingy that wants to drop around in Newcaslte for halfa on the weekend?
Got a call back from the mech. Rebuild is out of the question - $2000++. Motor from a wreckers, out of a Nissan 200C or 200ZX, about $1000 + about $500 to fit it. Hmm... this is screwed.
Got a call back from the mech. Rebuild is out of the question - $2000++. Motor from a wreckers, out of a Nissan 200C or 200ZX, about $1000 + about $500 to fit it. Hmm... this is screwed.
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
God of Magnificant Ideas!
YELLOW PAGES.......
Have a skyline car here complete for $300 !!! motor is sweet as, will take an afternoon to swap motors in this rig
Ring around other wreckers...
try MK Patrol Guy... I recall he had one not long ago...
I've got 2 or 3 spares here but all in similar nick as yours ( possiably better ), but I'm in VIC !
Have a skyline car here complete for $300 !!! motor is sweet as, will take an afternoon to swap motors in this rig
Ring around other wreckers...
try MK Patrol Guy... I recall he had one not long ago...
I've got 2 or 3 spares here but all in similar nick as yours ( possiably better ), but I'm in VIC !
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
I would try a couple of things before you go swapping the engine.
Check all your fuel filters and drain the float bowl in case you have got some fuel with dirt or water in it. Sometimes if you have crap in your carb you can try revving it up to about 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and then cover the air intake with your hand (air filter removed) so the engine sucks a heap of fuel throught your jets as it can only suck fuel and not air. Help to move any debris.
Try putting about 500ml of metho in your tank incase you have some water floating around in there too.
I would also check for burn marks under your distrubutor rotor in case it is earthing out. Sometimes you can put a small piece of masking tape over the distrubutor shaft and put the cap back on over top. If it shorts through it will leave a burn mark on the masking tape. Then check the rest of the electric by running the engine at night somewhere really dark with all lights off. If something is shorting out you can usually see a small spark where it is jumping.
My 2 cents
Check all your fuel filters and drain the float bowl in case you have got some fuel with dirt or water in it. Sometimes if you have crap in your carb you can try revving it up to about 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and then cover the air intake with your hand (air filter removed) so the engine sucks a heap of fuel throught your jets as it can only suck fuel and not air. Help to move any debris.
Try putting about 500ml of metho in your tank incase you have some water floating around in there too.
I would also check for burn marks under your distrubutor rotor in case it is earthing out. Sometimes you can put a small piece of masking tape over the distrubutor shaft and put the cap back on over top. If it shorts through it will leave a burn mark on the masking tape. Then check the rest of the electric by running the engine at night somewhere really dark with all lights off. If something is shorting out you can usually see a small spark where it is jumping.
My 2 cents
Sorry if I've missed it, but have you done the compression test yet? It will give a pretty definite answer on whether you need to pull the motor (or at least the head) or not.
Compression test. If one cylinder reads low, then you do it again with a teaspoon of oil added. If it still reads low, it's either fully rooted or it's a valve or head gasket. If it reads better, it's probably the rings.
You *must* know someone with a compression tester, but if you don't know ANYBODY and you really can't afford to buy one, give me your address and I'll mail mine to you on Monday as long as you promise to mail it back when you're finished with it. I am hoping I won't need it in the next coupla weeks
Personally I think you are going to find that you have little compression on one cylinder. When that happens you pull the head and work out whether it's the block, the head, or the gasket in between. If it's the head (ie a valve) or the gasket - easy easy. You're then talking about 200 bucks or so.
Incidentally, are you sure it's oil on the spark plug? The reason I ask is that an electrical problem doesn't seem out of the question, and that could get the cylinder full of unburnt fuel which could maybe be looking like oil if it gets gunked up with carbon. Just a thought. Oil can also get in if you have a damaged head gasket (I think your mechanic is making things sound worse than they are).
Not wanting to disagree with auto_eng, because he's probably smarter than me, but I wouldn't bother with metho in the fuel etc until you've done the compression test. It really is a mandatory first thing to do with the symptoms you're getting.
Last thing I'll say: don't get too stressed about it. Really. L28s are very common and you'll be able to get one for a lot less than a grand. Eg there's a complete MQ with a "no good body" in the trading post here in Brisvegas for $500. You should be able to pick up a decent L28 for under $500 easily and I reckon this list can talk you through the swap if you have a garage and a block and tackle or engine crane. If you do have a place to do it (or a friend's place) believe me you'll feel like a king if you do the swap yourself, and you'll be on your way to knowing a shitload more about cars than you do now.
And let's face it, getting into fourbying without having good mechanical skills is basically a recipe for lifelong poverty.
If you're not sure how to do a compression test just ask and I or someone else can run through the steps. You'll need a well-charged battery so keep it on the charger
Jason
Compression test. If one cylinder reads low, then you do it again with a teaspoon of oil added. If it still reads low, it's either fully rooted or it's a valve or head gasket. If it reads better, it's probably the rings.
You *must* know someone with a compression tester, but if you don't know ANYBODY and you really can't afford to buy one, give me your address and I'll mail mine to you on Monday as long as you promise to mail it back when you're finished with it. I am hoping I won't need it in the next coupla weeks
Personally I think you are going to find that you have little compression on one cylinder. When that happens you pull the head and work out whether it's the block, the head, or the gasket in between. If it's the head (ie a valve) or the gasket - easy easy. You're then talking about 200 bucks or so.
Incidentally, are you sure it's oil on the spark plug? The reason I ask is that an electrical problem doesn't seem out of the question, and that could get the cylinder full of unburnt fuel which could maybe be looking like oil if it gets gunked up with carbon. Just a thought. Oil can also get in if you have a damaged head gasket (I think your mechanic is making things sound worse than they are).
Not wanting to disagree with auto_eng, because he's probably smarter than me, but I wouldn't bother with metho in the fuel etc until you've done the compression test. It really is a mandatory first thing to do with the symptoms you're getting.
Last thing I'll say: don't get too stressed about it. Really. L28s are very common and you'll be able to get one for a lot less than a grand. Eg there's a complete MQ with a "no good body" in the trading post here in Brisvegas for $500. You should be able to pick up a decent L28 for under $500 easily and I reckon this list can talk you through the swap if you have a garage and a block and tackle or engine crane. If you do have a place to do it (or a friend's place) believe me you'll feel like a king if you do the swap yourself, and you'll be on your way to knowing a shitload more about cars than you do now.
And let's face it, getting into fourbying without having good mechanical skills is basically a recipe for lifelong poverty.
If you're not sure how to do a compression test just ask and I or someone else can run through the steps. You'll need a well-charged battery so keep it on the charger
Jason
you were looking for a mechanic b4 the watto`s trip to do a service if you got that done and if there was anything wrong he would of picked somthing up and said dont drive.
and all so you had a carby problem to didnt you?
and all so you had a carby problem to didnt you?
[url=http://downunder4x4.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1650]86 Hilux[/url]
and a 84 extra cab
If Rocks Had P^ssies Our Lives Would Be Perfect :D...
and a 84 extra cab
If Rocks Had P^ssies Our Lives Would Be Perfect :D...
Yeah, mech had a look around before the trip. He said it was basically in okay condition. 6th cylinder was low on compression, and the engine would probably need head work sometime in the future. I asked at the time whether the compression problem could be shot rings. He said maybe, but unlikely, given his experience with those engines. Much more likely to be shot valves.
But after describing the latest problem, he was fairly quick to say it would be bottom end stuff. He seemed to think head work would not save it at this stage, and by now, the bores would be shot too.
Thanks for all the suggestions, they are most welcome. I'm still tracking down a compression tester, but should be find (or buy) one soon. Thanks for the generous offer chimpboy, but I'm sure I can nail something down that's a bit closer.
I must admit I'm a little eager to get the thing back on the road. I've tracked down a few offers for engines which come in *much* less than $1000... but I'm still cautious. I'm kinda over engine trouble for a little while, so I'd really like a bit of confidence (or a guarantee) in the engine. The other thing is organising transport and so forth is difficult. I'm afraid I don't have a crane or block and tackle, and would actually like to drive home Monday of next week. They say there is a price for convenience, and well, $1500 is a price!!
But after describing the latest problem, he was fairly quick to say it would be bottom end stuff. He seemed to think head work would not save it at this stage, and by now, the bores would be shot too.
Thanks for all the suggestions, they are most welcome. I'm still tracking down a compression tester, but should be find (or buy) one soon. Thanks for the generous offer chimpboy, but I'm sure I can nail something down that's a bit closer.
I must admit I'm a little eager to get the thing back on the road. I've tracked down a few offers for engines which come in *much* less than $1000... but I'm still cautious. I'm kinda over engine trouble for a little while, so I'd really like a bit of confidence (or a guarantee) in the engine. The other thing is organising transport and so forth is difficult. I'm afraid I don't have a crane or block and tackle, and would actually like to drive home Monday of next week. They say there is a price for convenience, and well, $1500 is a price!!
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
Heathx4 wrote:Mmm, I'd love to think you might be right, but I don't feel that way. I'll try swapping the leads, but I don't think it will help. Then again, I'm all depressed and don't *really* know what I'm talking about. Anyone got a compression tester thingy that wants to drop around in Newcaslte for halfa on the weekend?
Got a call back from the mech. Rebuild is out of the question - $2000++. Motor from a wreckers, out of a Nissan 200C or 200ZX, about $1000 + about $500 to fit it. Hmm... this is screwed.
Whole skyline, 240K, 260C 280C shjould cost about $300
Heathx4 wrote:Yeah, mech had a look around before the trip. He said it was basically in okay condition. 6th cylinder was low on compression, and the engine would probably need head work sometime in the future. I asked at the time whether the compression problem could be shot rings. He said maybe, but unlikely, given his experience with those engines. Much more likely to be shot valves.
But after describing the latest problem, he was fairly quick to say it would be bottom end stuff. He seemed to think head work would not save it at this stage, and by now, the bores would be shot too.
Thanks for all the suggestions, they are most welcome. I'm still tracking down a compression tester, but should be find (or buy) one soon. Thanks for the generous offer chimpboy, but I'm sure I can nail something down that's a bit closer.
I must admit I'm a little eager to get the thing back on the road. I've tracked down a few offers for engines which come in *much* less than $1000... but I'm still cautious. I'm kinda over engine trouble for a little while, so I'd really like a bit of confidence (or a guarantee) in the engine. The other thing is organising transport and so forth is difficult. I'm afraid I don't have a crane or block and tackle, and would actually like to drive home Monday of next week. They say there is a price for convenience, and well, $1500 is a price!!
For offroad use there is no guarantees - you can quite easily killa new motor in one weekend in the wrong circumstances, and it sure won't be covered under warranty.
Something else to assess... You can but RB series jap imports for a lot less money (eg $500 or so for RB20 Turbo).... It cost a little more in the short run (with computer and stuff), but better fuel economy, more power and able to run on angles the L28 never would.
You should have no issues engineering a V8 swap either.
Suzuki Viagra wrote:Something else to assess... You can but RB series jap imports for a lot less money (eg $500 or so for RB20 Turbo).... It cost a little more in the short run (with computer and stuff), but better fuel economy, more power and able to run on angles the L28 never would.
You should have no issues engineering a V8 swap either.
Yeah but from the sound of things a minimal cost, minimal fucking-around option is to be preferred, and that means swapping in another L28.
Personally I wouldn't make my first-ever engine replacement a different motor to the original.
But that's just me
Heath - you've gotta have a friend or relative with a garage you can use. It's a day's work to swap in a motor and you don't need much more than a socket set, a set of spanners, and a block-and-tackle.
Jason
This is not legal advice.
Argh!!
I didn't go ahead with the engine swap. I had it in at the shop to get it done the week before Christmas, but the mech was a bit worried about getting it done before the break. Instead he put some high temp plugs in, had a play with the points (I think) and played with the carby. He had it running quite well, and said see how it goes, just take it real easy.
Well, since then I've driven to Tamworth and back, Nelson Bay and back twice, done a very small amount of 4wd'ing and a fair bit of driving around town - all without a problem! The engine has been running really well.
Then, I start her up this morning to go to Beaurepairs for tyres. Started beautifully, ran a bit chuggy on the choke as it sometimes does, stammered up the hill and 50m up the road it was back to its bloody misfiring self!!
The situation didn't change during the drive to Beaurepairs, and it is the same as before - a definate, rough miss when under power, and a shaky idle.
A wild theory I have relates to the oil pressure. When I replaced the oil filter on the weekend I accidently overfilled the engine a little bit with oil. The mark was just above the H on the dipstick. The oil pressure indicator showed 3 (kg/cm^3?) instead of the normal ~2.5, but that was smack bang in the middle of the indicator, so I thought it would be sweet. Could the extra oil pressure have forced some oil into that dodgy cylinder and coated the plug again? Should I just drop some oil out, clean the plugs and hope for the best??
Ideally... I was considering doing a slight engine conversion. The L28 engines in the Nissan 200C and 200ZX that the Mech was going to use for the swap are fuel injected. He said my carby would just bolt straight on top. Afterwards, I considered doing a conversion to fuel injection. I don't imagine there would be too many complications, and it would be great to deal with the carby flooding problems on hills and on starts.
But at the moment I just want my car to run nice! I was on track for the Watagan's run this weekend, but this is a major set back
and I just splashed out a fair bit of money on mods instead of the engine swap 
I didn't go ahead with the engine swap. I had it in at the shop to get it done the week before Christmas, but the mech was a bit worried about getting it done before the break. Instead he put some high temp plugs in, had a play with the points (I think) and played with the carby. He had it running quite well, and said see how it goes, just take it real easy.
Well, since then I've driven to Tamworth and back, Nelson Bay and back twice, done a very small amount of 4wd'ing and a fair bit of driving around town - all without a problem! The engine has been running really well.
Then, I start her up this morning to go to Beaurepairs for tyres. Started beautifully, ran a bit chuggy on the choke as it sometimes does, stammered up the hill and 50m up the road it was back to its bloody misfiring self!!
The situation didn't change during the drive to Beaurepairs, and it is the same as before - a definate, rough miss when under power, and a shaky idle.
A wild theory I have relates to the oil pressure. When I replaced the oil filter on the weekend I accidently overfilled the engine a little bit with oil. The mark was just above the H on the dipstick. The oil pressure indicator showed 3 (kg/cm^3?) instead of the normal ~2.5, but that was smack bang in the middle of the indicator, so I thought it would be sweet. Could the extra oil pressure have forced some oil into that dodgy cylinder and coated the plug again? Should I just drop some oil out, clean the plugs and hope for the best??
Ideally... I was considering doing a slight engine conversion. The L28 engines in the Nissan 200C and 200ZX that the Mech was going to use for the swap are fuel injected. He said my carby would just bolt straight on top. Afterwards, I considered doing a conversion to fuel injection. I don't imagine there would be too many complications, and it would be great to deal with the carby flooding problems on hills and on starts.
But at the moment I just want my car to run nice! I was on track for the Watagan's run this weekend, but this is a major set back
and I just splashed out a fair bit of money on mods instead of the engine swap * Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
God of Magnificant Ideas!
Heathx4 wrote:
Ideally... I was considering doing a slight engine conversion. The L28 engines in the Nissan 200C and 200ZX that the Mech was going to use for the swap are fuel injected. He said my carby would just bolt straight on top. Afterwards, I considered doing a conversion to fuel injection. I don't imagine there would be too many complications, and it would be great to deal with the carby flooding problems on hills and on starts.
Be careful of which motor you get.... the motors listed are identicle to look at BUT there is a differance....
Some motors have L24 stamped on them and for all intentions "look" identicle.... BUT they are not and can not be moddified to suit without a great deal of expert knowlege and speciliased tools . The biggest problem is the sump... in the car type engines the "bowl of the sump sits near or at the front where as the real L28 its at the rear of the engine.
That may not sound like much of a problem but the front diff will hit the sump under compression.... I repeat WILL HIT.
The oil pickup ( inside the sump ) is obviously in the "bowl" part of the sump so a hit on the bottom of the sump will damage the oil pickup.
It may look like a simple opperation to "swap" the 2 sumps and oil pickups around to suit but....... The oil gallery in the engine block will not be drilled out to the rear of the engine where it is required for a rear sump setup.
I know because I've allready tried this before..... If you have no choice as to which motor is available and have to go with the car typs motors then an alternative fix is to get an additional clearance between the sump and front diff is simple...............
do
a
SOA
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
Understood on the L24 issue. That would be a problem. But I'm sure some of those Nissan sedans ran L28's. Still not entirely sure what would be required to swap it over.
Well, what do you know. I was graced with a bit of sunshine when I arrived home from work today, and took a look at the engine. I now have to stand on a box to reach the plugs!
Unfortunately, I had not simply let a plug lead come loose, and it was definately the same cylinder not firing as before - No 4. Confirmed by pulling the lead as the engine was idling. Pulling No 4 made no change, pulling the others dropped the revs a bit.
So I pulled it out expecting a wet oily mess like before, but was pleased to find it quite dry, but very gunky with hard black soot. I took to it with my fingernails, a screwdriver and a bit of fine sandpaper, until the sparking surfaces were fairly clean.
I then ran the engine with the high tension lead from the coil disconnected, and No 4 plug still out, to clear any oil from the cylinder. I didn't actually see anything come out when the starter spun. I then reconnected the high tension lead and held the plug against the block while my assistant (aren't gf's great?) turned the key. There was a reasonable spark now. I cleaned the oil away from the plug opening, the plug itself, and the end of its lead, and put everything back.
Turned the key and the L28 sung its sweet, sweet tune again! Oh what a relief! I'm not sure how long I can keep this up for, but damn it is nice to have fixed that bad miss myself.
Well, what do you know. I was graced with a bit of sunshine when I arrived home from work today, and took a look at the engine. I now have to stand on a box to reach the plugs!
Unfortunately, I had not simply let a plug lead come loose, and it was definately the same cylinder not firing as before - No 4. Confirmed by pulling the lead as the engine was idling. Pulling No 4 made no change, pulling the others dropped the revs a bit.
So I pulled it out expecting a wet oily mess like before, but was pleased to find it quite dry, but very gunky with hard black soot. I took to it with my fingernails, a screwdriver and a bit of fine sandpaper, until the sparking surfaces were fairly clean.
I then ran the engine with the high tension lead from the coil disconnected, and No 4 plug still out, to clear any oil from the cylinder. I didn't actually see anything come out when the starter spun. I then reconnected the high tension lead and held the plug against the block while my assistant (aren't gf's great?) turned the key. There was a reasonable spark now. I cleaned the oil away from the plug opening, the plug itself, and the end of its lead, and put everything back.
Turned the key and the L28 sung its sweet, sweet tune again! Oh what a relief! I'm not sure how long I can keep this up for, but damn it is nice to have fixed that bad miss myself.
* Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool *
Heathx4 wrote:Understood on the L24 issue. That would be a problem. But I'm sure some of those Nissan sedans ran L28's. Still not entirely sure what would be required to swap it over.
Well, what do you know. I was graced with a bit of sunshine when I arrived home from work today, and took a look at the engine. I now have to stand on a box to reach the plugs!
Unfortunately, I had not simply let a plug lead come loose, and it was definately the same cylinder not firing as before - No 4. Confirmed by pulling the lead as the engine was idling. Pulling No 4 made no change, pulling the others dropped the revs a bit.
So I pulled it out expecting a wet oily mess like before, but was pleased to find it quite dry, but very gunky with hard black soot. I took to it with my fingernails, a screwdriver and a bit of fine sandpaper, until the sparking surfaces were fairly clean.
I then ran the engine with the high tension lead from the coil disconnected, and No 4 plug still out, to clear any oil from the cylinder. I didn't actually see anything come out when the starter spun. I then reconnected the high tension lead and held the plug against the block while my assistant (aren't gf's great?) turned the key. There was a reasonable spark now. I cleaned the oil away from the plug opening, the plug itself, and the end of its lead, and put everything back.
Turned the key and the L28 sung its sweet, sweet tune again! Oh what a relief! I'm not sure how long I can keep this up for, but damn it is nice to have fixed that bad miss myself.
Hmmm... before I rebuilt my L24 I got to this stage quite regularly with plug swapping.... that was a combination of getting a bit low on compression and running LPG it tended to burn em out a lot.
Spark plugs are a cheap solution while you save up.
As far as swapping in an L28 I thought most late 78-82 skylines were L28's... then they wentto EFI 2.4's then RB30's in 85. They should have upped all the Nissan 6's to 260 in about 1974 for pollution controls and then again in about 1977 they went up to 280....
I don't see how running the car with an L24 swapping the sump and oil pickup from the L28 Patrol isn't ok.... The oil pan is sloped even in the "kinda flat bit" (C) it at the the front of the motor it will run to the back anyway.
If it starves for oil in that extra time well you must have 1/2 a litre not 6 or 7 in there like you should.
I wouldn't recommend a L24 in the patrol... after all they are a substantially smaller motor - if you have to get another L series one get an L26... they're heaps cheaper for parts to rebuild than an L28 (different pistons and bearings increase the cost of L28 rebuilds).
An L24 cam is good though... particualrly a RED 240Z one
Still reckon V8 or later RB is the way to go.
God of Magnificant Ideas!
Suzuki Viagra wrote:Heathx4 wrote:Understood on the L24 issue. That would be a problem. But I'm sure some of those Nissan sedans ran L28's. Still not entirely sure what would be required to swap it over.
Well, what do you know. I was graced with a bit of sunshine when I arrived home from work today, and took a look at the engine. I now have to stand on a box to reach the plugs!
Unfortunately, I had not simply let a plug lead come loose, and it was definately the same cylinder not firing as before - No 4. Confirmed by pulling the lead as the engine was idling. Pulling No 4 made no change, pulling the others dropped the revs a bit.
So I pulled it out expecting a wet oily mess like before, but was pleased to find it quite dry, but very gunky with hard black soot. I took to it with my fingernails, a screwdriver and a bit of fine sandpaper, until the sparking surfaces were fairly clean.
I then ran the engine with the high tension lead from the coil disconnected, and No 4 plug still out, to clear any oil from the cylinder. I didn't actually see anything come out when the starter spun. I then reconnected the high tension lead and held the plug against the block while my assistant (aren't gf's great?) turned the key. There was a reasonable spark now. I cleaned the oil away from the plug opening, the plug itself, and the end of its lead, and put everything back.
Turned the key and the L28 sung its sweet, sweet tune again! Oh what a relief! I'm not sure how long I can keep this up for, but damn it is nice to have fixed that bad miss myself.
Hmmm... before I rebuilt my L24 I got to this stage quite regularly with plug swapping.... that was a combination of getting a bit low on compression and running LPG it tended to burn em out a lot.
Spark plugs are a cheap solution while you save up.
As far as swapping in an L28 I thought most late 78-82 skylines were L28's... then they wentto EFI 2.4's then RB30's in 85. They should have upped all the Nissan 6's to 260 in about 1974 for pollution controls and then again in about 1977 they went up to 280....
I don't see how running the car with an L24 swapping the sump and oil pickup from the L28 Patrol isn't ok.... The oil pan is sloped even in the "kinda flat bit" (C) it at the the front of the motor it will run to the back anyway.
If it starves for oil in that extra time well you must have 1/2 a litre not 6 or 7 in there like you should.
I wouldn't recommend a L24 in the patrol... after all they are a substantially smaller motor - if you have to get another L series one get an L26... they're heaps cheaper for parts to rebuild than an L28 (different pistons and bearings increase the cost of L28 rebuilds).
An L24 cam is good though... particualrly a RED 240Z one
Still reckon V8 or later RB is the way to go.
The motor in the pic I supplied is going into an MQ but it has very stiff suspension and is a road car predominatly. I have informed the owner of the problem and he understands but is no worried about it. It's more a "cost" factor to him !
The swaping of the sumps is straight foward and they do actually bolt straight up, but the oil pickup is the problem...
The location of the rear oil pickup setup is ....
1/
not drilled or tapped for a thread in the L24 >>> solution is obvious and easy to do... drill and tap it !
and the gallery isnt drilled out either so further drilling vertically to pickup the horiziontal part of the gallery is needed
2/
Here's the fugup bit.... the actuall oil gallery runs from the front of the block ( oil pump location ) to the location of the front oil pickup point setup. The problem is that the gallery does NOT go to the rear of the block and therefore has to be drilled ..... finding a 500mm long drillbit to deepen the hole is the first problem, 2nd is getting it to align perfectly, 3rd is not drilling it beyond the rear oil pickup point wich you also have to drill out !!
3/
The oil pickup's themselves are also different in their lengths and the angles they head from the block to the bowl of the sump, be they front or rear pickups. You can only run a front pickup off of the front setup and the same for the rear.
I looked at lengthing the front pickup tube so it could reach the rear bowl setup but the added length becomes the next problem. Over a period of time engine vibration will fracture the tube and it would eventually break off leaving a zero oil pressure situation..... we all know thats a receipe for disaster.
Ofcourse I could have attached the tube to a bigend bearing cap as they do in V8 holden motors but the next problem is the clearance betwen the actual bearing caps and the sump..... not enough room !!! that in turn meant I had to "squash" the tube somewhat where it passes the caps, again this restricts oil flow..... blame the Japannese designers and their close tollerances for that !!!
I'm not sayin it cant be done but as you can see it requires specialist tools and a distinct level of skill to convert the front pickup to a rear setup. The 500mm long drillbit I needed to convert it would have cost $187.00 US .... + shipping + insurance ..... all that just for one hole !!! get outa ere !
If your still not sure as to what the problem is then let me know and I'll take a few more detailed pics of the exact problems and their locations..... just have to take the sump off and click away !!!
Kingy
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
V8Patrol wrote:
The swaping of the sumps is straight foward and they do actually bolt straight up, but the oil pickup is the problem...
The location of the rear oil pickup setup is ....
1/
not drilled or tapped for a thread in the L24 >>> solution is obvious and easy to do... drill and tap it !
and the gallery isnt drilled out either so further drilling vertically to pickup the horiziontal part of the gallery is needed
2/
Here's the fugup bit.... the actuall oil gallery runs from the front of the block ( oil pump location ) to the location of the front oil pickup point setup. The problem is that the gallery does NOT go to the rear of the block and therefore has to be drilled ..... finding a 500mm long drillbit to deepen the hole is the first problem, 2nd is getting it to align perfectly, 3rd is not drilling it beyond the rear oil pickup point wich you also have to drill out !!
3/
The oil pickup's themselves are also different in their lengths and the angles they head from the block to the bowl of the sump, be they front or rear pickups. You can only run a front pickup off of the front setup and the same for the rear.
I looked at lengthing the front pickup tube so it could reach the rear bowl setup but the added length becomes the next problem. Over a period of time engine vibration will fracture the tube and it would eventually break off leaving a zero oil pressure situation..... we all know thats a receipe for disaster.
Ofcourse I could have attached the tube to a bigend bearing cap as they do in V8 holden motors but the next problem is the clearance betwen the actual bearing caps and the sump..... not enough room !!! that in turn meant I had to "squash" the tube somewhat where it passes the caps, again this restricts oil flow..... blame the Japannese designers and their close tollerances for that !!!
I'm not sayin it cant be done but as you can see it requires specialist tools and a distinct level of skill to convert the front pickup to a rear setup. The 500mm long drillbit I needed to convert it would have cost $187.00 US .... + shipping + insurance ..... all that just for one hole !!! get outa ere !
If your still not sure as to what the problem is then let me know and I'll take a few more detailed pics of the exact problems and their locations..... just have to take the sump off and click away !!!
Kingy
1) Easy
2) I wouldn't.... as you pointed out not worth the $$$ or hassles.
3) use heavier gauge it shouldn't fracture or if it does it's a long way down the track... and after all an L24 is a temporary cheap solution we are talking about.... long term I think it's fair to say we'd all think it's underpowered and not the best option.
Mounting under the main bearing caps is not a good place, but then again if you look at the top end of the Zeds and Skylines the factory did the same with the cam carrier caps and an additional cam oil sprayer.....
My recommendations:
1) keep swapping plugs and use one grade hotter.
2a) V8 or RB conversion
2b) If short $$$ L24/26/28 road version and extended pick up tube. Tack some tabs on for attachment to the main bearing caps and go for it!
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