hi all,
i tried searching for this topic but nothing came up.
my question is:
What is the better gearbox to have for wheeling/crawling?
i have a 89wt sierra, i will be running toy locked diffs, 6.5gears 4afe 1.6 DOHC corolla motor with 35" BFG MT's.
i currently have a supra 5speed box that i am planning to use but have been toying with the idea of an auto. im just wondering which will be the better option.
the supra boxes are strong and fairly reliable.
the auto boxes come from an 84 ae71 corolla, im a bit worried about strength.
any opinions and advise would be great.
thanks
Pubic
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auto vs manual gearbox
For pretty much everything except sand, auto would be my pick. Allows you to concentrate so much more on wheel placement etc and you can load up the converter which can be an advantage.
Having said that, I prefer manual for onroad but for a dedicated offroader I would go the auto for sure. Look at all the top rockcrawling comp guys, autos everywhere.
Having said that, I prefer manual for onroad but for a dedicated offroader I would go the auto for sure. Look at all the top rockcrawling comp guys, autos everywhere.
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(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
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Try this thread from general tech (early bit is better than the last few pages):
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic114977.php
v840, why do you say you wouldn't pick an auto for sand work? Autos are particularly at home in sand in my opinion. Not having to change gears and have that 'lul' between them makes gliding over the soft sand allot easier, and less strenuous on ths car.
Personally I get no enjoyment out of autos and would never own one, but thats just a personal choice, I do respect their benefits.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic114977.php
v840, why do you say you wouldn't pick an auto for sand work? Autos are particularly at home in sand in my opinion. Not having to change gears and have that 'lul' between them makes gliding over the soft sand allot easier, and less strenuous on ths car.
Personally I get no enjoyment out of autos and would never own one, but thats just a personal choice, I do respect their benefits.
Wheeling on completely wicked angles, without even looking stable.
Auto everytime, everywhere (except on road)
I have near 130:1 crawl in my Sierra, and whilst it's good, it's still not as capable as an auto with less than 1/2 the gearing.
Steve.
I have near 130:1 crawl in my Sierra, and whilst it's good, it's still not as capable as an auto with less than 1/2 the gearing.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Crawl ratio for a manual is:
First gearratio X transfer ratio X rear diff ratio
For an auto:
First gear ratio X transfer ratio X rear diff ratio X converter stall ratio
Converter stall ratio varies between something like 1.8:1 -trimatic) to 2.4:1 (AW-4)
for a manual, useful crawl ratios start at about 60:1. around 80:1 starts getting pretty sweet.
For an auto, 40:1 would be plenty.
Steve.
First gearratio X transfer ratio X rear diff ratio
For an auto:
First gear ratio X transfer ratio X rear diff ratio X converter stall ratio
Converter stall ratio varies between something like 1.8:1 -trimatic) to 2.4:1 (AW-4)
for a manual, useful crawl ratios start at about 60:1. around 80:1 starts getting pretty sweet.
For an auto, 40:1 would be plenty.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
I do actually agree that auto's are better in sand but a manual seems to suit my driving style alot better in sand than an auto. Its just a personal preference. I have friends who love their auto's on sand.Highway-Star wrote:
v840, why do you say you wouldn't pick an auto for sand work?
TBH I only have auto-on-sand experience driving my old GQ petrol on stockton. Compared to all my other manual 4wd's I felt it sucked. Changing up too early, and generally losing alot of momentum between shifts. Whether that was due to that particular auto or not I couldnt say. Im sure driving a heavy ass GQ didnt help either
. Again, just relaying my experience. That GQ was the only auto Ive owned and it pwned all others on rocks (where I do 99% of my off roading) and every other type of terrain.
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|.........SUZUKI..........| ||'|";, ____.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ]
(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
|.........SUZUKI..........| ||'|";, ____.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ]
(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
I have never understood the thery on why autos are better on sand.
I know i can change a manual substantually faster than an auto and i know exacty when i want/need to change
I know i can change a manual substantually faster than an auto and i know exacty when i want/need to change
Cut down Sierra cab on extended LWB chasie running, Hilux front and Bundy back, with a 4AGZE should be finished about umm soon. A 60 Series work truck and some go fast toys too.
http://www.trailhed.com/calculator.htmlpubic wrote:ok sorry but im a little under educated on the whole gearing side of things.
how do i work out my gearing?
i have what i belive to be stock hilux diff ratios and will be running 6.5 crawler gears.
what else do i need to know to work out my ratio?
Ispent a bucket load rebuiling and installing a A15 with 3 speed auto, short story it sucked went back to stock.
Even with 3.9 diffs 4.16 t/c and 32s road speed wasnt great, and front up to an obsticle and put your foot down and nothing would happen wentb through 2 boxes and had them checked by a auto mechanic and said there was nothing wrong with them. Also once Igot too much of an angle it would suck air and go into neutral not good halfway up an obsticle.
Yes I could have made a deeper pan but too why polish a turd?
Just my experience have seen 2 other zuks run this set up with success one was in tt.
Nik
Even with 3.9 diffs 4.16 t/c and 32s road speed wasnt great, and front up to an obsticle and put your foot down and nothing would happen wentb through 2 boxes and had them checked by a auto mechanic and said there was nothing wrong with them. Also once Igot too much of an angle it would suck air and go into neutral not good halfway up an obsticle.
Yes I could have made a deeper pan but too why polish a turd?
Just my experience have seen 2 other zuks run this set up with success one was in tt.
Nik
just punched some numbers into the calculator...
the low gear of the box is approx 2.45 i couldnt fine the exact gearbox but all others around the same time were running prettymuch the same numbers
im going to run the 6.5 crawler gears
stock lux diffs correct me if im wrong 4.88
all this equals 77.71
but its an auto. im not sure of the converter ratio.
if i multiply the 77.71 by this it will only get bigger right? unles the con ratio is a decimal number i.e 0.xxx??
the low gear of the box is approx 2.45 i couldnt fine the exact gearbox but all others around the same time were running prettymuch the same numbers
im going to run the 6.5 crawler gears
stock lux diffs correct me if im wrong 4.88
all this equals 77.71
but its an auto. im not sure of the converter ratio.
if i multiply the 77.71 by this it will only get bigger right? unles the con ratio is a decimal number i.e 0.xxx??
That's plenty of gearing. Even with 1.8 converter, you're at 138:1 which will be fine.
Just watch your road speed. with a direct 3rd gear and 4.88's, your going to be revving REALLY hard on the highway.
The Trimatic car I built recently runs 3.9 diffs, 6.5 transfer (RH S4) and spins 4K @ 100km/h, and that's with over 35" tyres.
PS not all stock Hilux diffs are 4.88.
Gen 2 Diesels ran 4.5
Gen 3 Diesels ran 4.3
I think only Gen 2 5 speed petrols are 4.88 stock, but I could be wrong.
Steve.
Just watch your road speed. with a direct 3rd gear and 4.88's, your going to be revving REALLY hard on the highway.
The Trimatic car I built recently runs 3.9 diffs, 6.5 transfer (RH S4) and spins 4K @ 100km/h, and that's with over 35" tyres.
PS not all stock Hilux diffs are 4.88.
Gen 2 Diesels ran 4.5
Gen 3 Diesels ran 4.3
I think only Gen 2 5 speed petrols are 4.88 stock, but I could be wrong.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
my diffs dropped from a 2lt (i think it was a 2lt or something small) petrol motor. around 83 model.
if im going to be wheeling at a decent distance from home i will be getting towed by my mates patrol (5lt holden motor).... then i will return the favour and pull him out of holes when wheeling
although 4k rpm sounds high, my diesel truck sits near 3k @120 kp/h
and corolla motors dont mind revving.
i will be sure to let everyone know how my build up goes any how.
if im going to be wheeling at a decent distance from home i will be getting towed by my mates patrol (5lt holden motor).... then i will return the favour and pull him out of holes when wheeling
although 4k rpm sounds high, my diesel truck sits near 3k @120 kp/h
and corolla motors dont mind revving.
i will be sure to let everyone know how my build up goes any how.
God Of Emo
Posts: 7350
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:04 pm
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:04 pm
Location: Newy, home of the ZOOK (Rockin the 'diff)
Contact:
Be careful with super low gearing in auto's, as you will wind up driving through your brakes. Not fun if you cant stall your motor up, of even stop, because your brakes wont hold it 
Layto....
Layto....
[quote="v840"]Just between me and you, I actually really dig the Megatwon, but if anyone asks, I'm going to shitcan it as much as possible! :D[/quote]
God Of Emo
Posts: 7350
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:04 pm
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:04 pm
Location: Newy, home of the ZOOK (Rockin the 'diff)
Contact:
Be careful with super low gearing in auto's, as you will wind up driving through your brakes. Not fun if you cant stall your motor up, of even stop, because your brakes wont hold it
Layto....
Layto....
[quote="v840"]Just between me and you, I actually really dig the Megatwon, but if anyone asks, I'm going to shitcan it as much as possible! :D[/quote]
What do you class as "super low" for this effect to happen ?lay80n wrote:Be careful with super low gearing in auto's, as you will wind up driving through your brakes. Not fun if you cant stall your motor up, of even stop, because your brakes wont hold it
Layto....
I'm running around 70:1 ( gearing not T/C ) and haven't experienced this - perhaps I've misunderstood what your suggesting ?
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
fawk yeh,pubic wrote:
do slotted discs make muh of a difference off road?
heaps of difference when i changed them on my GU.... cant comment on a zook but.
i can lock up all 4 35s with the GU fully loaded without any probs.. whereas before only one or two tires would lock up
my GUBanzy wrote:Dial up internet.........you'd post something and come back 2 beers later to see if it loaded.
if i locked up all 4 on my zook the thing would probably cartwheel!!!
might just look into getting the slotted front discs and some braided lines. i did a bit of a read up on it and found a pretty decent point that was " the rears dont do much of the braking work... the fronts do the majority of it all." this is true on the road in 2wd but what about when wheeling?
i would imagine that at slow speeds, on a relatively flat obstacle all 4 would share pretty evenly. on a steep descent the fronts would bare it all right?
might just look into getting the slotted front discs and some braided lines. i did a bit of a read up on it and found a pretty decent point that was " the rears dont do much of the braking work... the fronts do the majority of it all." this is true on the road in 2wd but what about when wheeling?
i would imagine that at slow speeds, on a relatively flat obstacle all 4 would share pretty evenly. on a steep descent the fronts would bare it all right?
upgrading the brakes on a sierra is so easy. the vented disc and calipers from a LWB vitara will bolt right on with only trimming of the stone guard.bleeding is a bit of a PITA but the extra stopping power is unmatched by any stock sierra. best $100 i spent on the brakes
1999 SQ625 Manual Grand Vitara. Lifted, Twin Locked, 31' Extremes, dual Batteries, Winch.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
Lots of custom gear as I cant afford the proper stuff.
I sell them 'cause I don't need them and then I go and buy a Sierrabuilt4thrashing wrote:upgrading the brakes on a sierra is so easy. the vented disc and calipers from a LWB vitara will bolt right on with only trimming of the stone guard.bleeding is a bit of a PITA but the extra stopping power is unmatched by any stock sierra. best $100 i spent on the brakes
lucky I found another set 
Slotted brakes aren't the be all and end all that some make them out to be. Yes, I run slotted rotors and braided lines too and they do improve certain facets of braking but don't go thinking that they will make your braking performance that much better or you may be dissapointed. In fact in some circumstances not having slotted rotors is better IMHO.
[quote="4WD Stuff"]
I haven't quoted Grimbo because nobody takes him seriously :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: [/quote]
I haven't quoted Grimbo because nobody takes him seriously :finger: :finger: :finger: :finger: [/quote]
Pretty much at low speeds it's going to be pad area and line pressure.
I think the driving though the brakes thing is more based around V8's, low stall speed and lots of reduction.
Some of us in Vic have/do run quite low gearing with autos and it's not a big problem.
Steve.
I think the driving though the brakes thing is more based around V8's, low stall speed and lots of reduction.
Some of us in Vic have/do run quite low gearing with autos and it's not a big problem.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Slotted, Ventilated, Cross drilled ??? 
Would these help me stop quicker?
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_pa ... ducts_id=1
Would these help me stop quicker?
http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_pa ... ducts_id=1
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