TUFF TRUCK Improvement ideas Constructive only.

[Webbie]

O.K believe me when i say its never going to be a easy, please all solution avaiable for this huge event but.
in point form from what probs we encounter from OZROCK.
May i suggest, the following to improve what is already a terrific event . This may aid with the teathing promblems that is only coming about by the size of the event and crowd numbers.

#1. 2 mini excavators for the unstable areas( jaw breaker,Rock garden) and the use of a 25T franner or manitu for the rest.This may require all teams(non buggie type trucks) to have lift points,real quick recoverys, reduces bordome from the newby and reduces down time.
#2. Stage Managers to have coms with event organisers,for the purpose
of knowing whos on were and when ,or the event of an emergency.
#3. 1 gas bottle per car 9kg or the little cookers only with the arosol style
bottle or worst case no cooking or fires allowed.ANY F@CKHEAD found exploding such items or groups associated will be ejected no Q's asked and refered to police.
# 4. as per already stated increased sercurity presents or police payed for by the punters with dearer entry level or reduce the profit level by TTC or 50/50 split.After all we dont want it to become like summer nats were after dark its vertually blokes only no familys . As a result of theft a possible TOOLS and EQUIPMENT CLOKE ROOM (shipping container) that teams know their equipment is safe .just an idea.
#5. possibly 2 classes of vehicle still competing on the same tracks just with different points systems to keep the low level vehicles competitive.As well as the comentry rlaying the scoring system to the punters,alot of confusion about bunting penatlys,reversing,and other bits and peices(the more the punters know about the event the more they become enthused).
#6. flashing lights on 4wler bikes and speed limited travel for them as well,(a bit dangerous at times even using the horn would of helped).
#7. max tyre size running order smallest to biggest on the mud run.Or a 3 second progression penalty other wize it gets to chopped up.
#8. stage managers to talk and comunicate with the crowds in rollover prone areas. Or double bunting.
#9. points scores available through out the day available to both the public and teams.
#10. Less journalist,photgrahers,YELLOW JACKETS on course or if needed to be there , their mind full of spectators, as well as a easily recogniable fist aid presence(sorry if there was l didnt see them)

Its a great event that is being marded by F@ck heads, we as the punters should also not condone yobbo behavior. thats not to say lets not have a drink or 10 just be considerate of others espailly those with little ones. Mention problem persons to security so they dont have the oppertunity to make this event hard to run or so uncostly to put on because of security measures need.
Turning a blind eye will on make matters worse, All l the little things make it better .
Its been run and won and i applaud the organisers efforts for putting on the event. Just a few alterations will make all the difference to this event and ensure it remains one of the best on the calender. Cheers Webbie

_________________
>>>>>>>>>
<<WEBBIE<<
>>>>>>>>>
WISE MONKEY RACING
Dual cab 82 lux 308 , 37''creepys, arb front ,lsd rear,4'' lift 2'' body lift, x over steering.
www.ozrock4x4.com

[Nelso]

I know there would be a significant cost involved but I think a portable grandstand could be constructed looking over the Frame Twister and Devil's Marbles back up to the hill events. I think the size of the crowd this year warrants the extra expense and I would be happy to pay an extra $5-10 to spread the crowd out on the ground and give an option of sitting some where with a good view to rest the legs for a bit.

[filthy4wd]

A few things came to mind at Mudrat's Revenge (and I should have written some points earlier - couldn't be stuffed changing the order).
1) No prepared exit point for recovered vehicles except where the next competitor had to enter - the only other option had been wired up and surrounded by the crowd.
2) Most vehicles needed recovery, which took 5-10 minutes - but the next vehicle was almost never lined up, and required briefing which again took more time - this should have been done during the recoveries.
3) The program handed out at the gate had the details of all scoring and penalties in it - yet the announcers didn't know the rules, and therefore neither did the crowd - I heard no mention of this all weekend, and yet Mal still scored better than most by going off track.
4) Make sure it's drivable before the event - don't change the course after finding it beaks vehicles and can't be driven.
5) Reverse the track!!!! The last 3/4 of the course was a gimme if you could get out of the mud (especially the 25 point marker). It's a better spectacle if most drivers get most of the way through and more fun for them too. How many got wet and muddy for 10-20 points?
6) By the end of the 2nd night the wall at the 25 point mark had been so worn that a long wheelbase vehicle nearly couldn't fit between the winching point post and the wall. Have an alternative or move it further back - possibly even use a big excavator as a mobile one.
7) I'd like the winch point to be twice as big too. Did you see it flex when one navvie lifted the tree trunk protector 1m up?
8) Use the big excavator from Devil's Marbles at the boghole too.

Don't want to sound too negative cause I had a great weekend and I think most people did too.

[benhl]

1stly Great weekend - drove down from QLD - long drive, will probablly fly next time but good times

Constructive critisism:
1 - recovery points on 4 roof corners of exo cages to enable T-Bag style recoveries to speed things up. Bigger excavators or more off them would also help this.
2 - next drivers should be in staging, breathalised and briefed immediately after previous driver begins course. Once clear of course, they can go immediately
3 - Grand stand style seating WITH SHADE would be great on bottom courses and possibly some more spectator area between hill couses rather than always looking up at them.
4 - People exploding sh1t or lighting fires in tryes should be removed no questions asked. These people are d1cks and should be at home playing the banjo and/or counting remaining teeth!
5 - TT Shirts - YOU NEED MORE OF THEM!!! XL - XXXL sizes at least
6 - Cleaner sh1tters! They were great for the first few hours after that it all went downhill. I took someone elses DNA in spew form back to camp on my shorts - Thanks! You'd think in all the bush landl you'd be able to spew anywhere else but in the floor of the sh1tters. I was with the boys for a big w'end so not a huge drama but i certainly wouldn't take the missus or kids to that!
7 - Greater access to Comp trucks... i'd love to really paw over them, i know they need to be worked on etc but those not in repair could be parked overnight under lights/security so everyone can stand around pervin on some of the creative engineering that has been performed. Just a thought.

Could keep on goign but they are the main ones form me - again tope comp guys - just a shame so far from home...

[big red]

I was Videoing all weekend so sorry if we get in the view although we do try and keep out of the way where possible.

1: crane lifting points [with competitors own chain set up to be carried so it can be "centred" for lifting] should be compulsory for all vehicles ... so much quicker to extract

2: lower the course bunting to ground level to improve the view for spectators photos etc

3: commentators to be kept informed of things like who's on next at each course, how many trucks to go on each course, what the competitor just broke etc ... maybe even have a commentator on each course instead of up in a scissor lift

4: mud run not more than a foot deep ... kills the cars and dangerous for the drivers in a rollover, also needs two more light towers to even up the lighting.

5: can the mystery night drive , whats the point if no one can see it ... build another course beside the mud run with deep holes and jumps to get lots of air on the exits and time it so the competitors go hard.
when the mud run recoveries are happening you can then watch the other course

great event ... the bathurst of 4wdriving ...

[lukes4x4]

For mudrats revenge , they need lines marked on the ground. the first row is for people who sit on the ground. the next is for people who have seats. and the last is for people who waant to stand. this way everyone can see what they come 2 see.

LUKEYS 4X4 CUSTOMS

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

For mudrats revenge , they need lines marked on the ground. the first row is for people who sit on the ground. the next is for people who have seats. and the last is for people who waant to stand. this way everyone can see what they come 2 see.

LUKEYS 4X4 CUSTOMS

that is a good idea i think.

* i think the atmosphere at the mud run is the best anywhere.
i do however think the course should start off with a few wombat holes or similar and get deeper as you go. meaning everytruck would be more willing to try it.

* the roof recovery points has merit. but remember its tufftruck. not everyone drives a buggy. i wouldn be too keen on my 2tonne truck being lifted up like that too often. i think the front and rear system works.
and not to be nasty but some of the machine operators are prone to a whoops. its minimised if you arent being lifted up by the roof.

* competitor area maybe fenced off is the go. fans can see the trucks at show and shine. this is more a problem for the guys who have great pit setups. us bogans with an 80 series full of tools and bits dont have to worry so much about this.

* i would like to see the rules enforced abit more at scrutineering. measure the profile of the vehicle and knock one back for not being "truck enough" this will put a hault to the buggys with a bonnet stuck on.

[... rick]

3: commentators to be kept informed of things like who's on next at each course, how many trucks to go on each course, what the competitor just broke etc ... maybe even have a commentator on each course instead of up in a scissor lift

Yep that would be great, but difficult to keep accurate. Breakages and breakdowns more often than not keep the running order in disaray, so it can be difficult to keep on top of who is where.
The guy in a scissor lift is almost a nessecity, that is where all of the paperwork with sponser info is kept, and it provides a central position if someone needs an announcement made. Imagine if we needed to call out for 1st aid or something and you couldnt find the PA guy on the ground!
Don't worry though, all is duley noted and we will be striving to make next year the best ever. I have a couple of sweet ideas up my sleeve that will be awesome if we can pull it off.

Rick.

[1MadEngineer]

4: mud run not more than a foot deep ... kills the cars and dangerous for the drivers in a rollover, also needs two more light towers to even up the lighting.

5: can the mystery night drive , whats the point if no one can see it ... build another course beside the mud run with deep holes and jumps to get lots of air on the exits and time it so the competitors go hard.
when the mud run recoveries are happening you can then watch the other course

great event ... the bathurst of 4wdriving ...

Shane is spot on!!!

I had quite a few discussions with other competitors (prob 20) and they all agreed something like "twin track mud racing" (ala the vic mud racing) would be heaps better, IF we had to keep a mud event! At least you line up in pairs like dragracing, and the action is quick and fast with no stoppages. the track is only 1-2ft deep and doesn't change much throughout the event!! less breakages and less damaging to the trucks (and less of a wet crotch for the BUGGY drivers!!). It would be great to see these trucks letting loose around a mud track, with the likes of GONADS cutting sick with HUGE rooster tails of mud from the back of the firetruck!! the crowd would love it!!! Even reduce the point to a 20pt max for first and second go down from there, at least then it isn't such a huge dissadvantage not having a big hp v8, but still worth having FUN!!!

Change the Mystery night run into basically something like the Frame Twister - but under lights!! or maybe a new track, something like a MINI version of Woodpecker!!! you know - a water hole, few logs , cars , rocks and a big climb at the end!!!

The tracks were SOOOOOOOO much better this year!!!! A few Big BONUS's ---- AT THE END!!! would have made them PERFECT!!! (PS scrably $hit at the start is just annoying rather than entertaining!!)

ALL in ALL well done, not only the best by far but I would say as a competitor twice as good as ANY other year!!!

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

TTC should look at partnering up with a local vineyard or dr jurds, to produce a TTC port or wine i reckon.
its abit left field.
but with all the whining in gen chit chat it might be a good seller?

[Ice]

They would then need a liqour licence, and then starts the whole duty of care business and responsible service of alcohol, nightmare is all i can think of.

[Harb]

As I said somewhere else.....The Commentary needs to be on FM so people can listen on earphones and the PA can be turned down a bit........

[TWISTY]

As I said somewhere else.....The Commentary needs to be on FM so people can listen on earphones and the PA can be turned down a bit........

Thats a good idea! Landcruiser Park has that setup at some events I think....so it cant be too hard to setup.

[dudley]

Some good ideas here.

I just posted in chit-chat about my TTC experience.
In a nutshell my suggestions are-
Improved spectator safety,
Increased security prescence and enforce the rules ie no pyrotechnics or glass etc,
Quicker recovery of vehicles,
More bins.

I like the idea of a grandstand with shade/shelter, and better access to the trucks in the pits too. FM commentry is a great idea.

Pete.

[alexcliffo]

Overall this was the best TTC ive been to by a large margin.

Few Suggestions.

Some further thinking has to go into mud run. I think it is a big disadvantage to the competitors who do it Fri nite, then battle electrical problems the rest of the w/e. Of course mud is a big part of off road driving so should stay in some form. Also the course design is sh1thouse, I Think two courses run adjacent at night (1 in lieu of the mystery nite event) would be better. These should be more frame twister style as mentioned above by 1MadEngineer. The devils marbils would be a tops nite event too. With a massive mud hole AT THE END followed by a climb. FAWK YEAH

I'm sure TT comitee could now afford some sort of viewing stand. At the least a larger grass mound around the devils marbils and frame twister.

Keep the rock garden - best course ever.

Piss of the dd1icks with gas bottles. It is seriously only a matter of time before someone is killed, then no more TTC Everyone can get a bit silly after a few but those who disrespect others should be kicked out on their asses. More security for this...

When a lengthy recovery is occuring, the proceeding vehicle should be given its course run down by officials during this time. This is a simple admin change but will have a huge difference on organisational ease and spectator pleasure.

The commentators should be given regular updates regarding who is up on what tracks in the next, say, 30 minutes.

The breakdown rule is great as it gives all competitors more than enough chances to return and please the speccies, eg Gonads.

Bonus options at end of every course.

Cleaner sh1tters.

I think that two classes of competing cars is NOT a good idea. One class, one winner. One set of concrete and detailed design specs should be designed and implemented. If this is done, rego will not be needed as a control on design, these rules would be control enough. IMO, 4 foot of chassis rails and a bonnet does not constitute a registered or recognisable factory vehicle. I think:
1) Chassis rails between the line of the front axle and the rear of the "cab", ie behind drivers seats for single cabs. This would allow truggy style vehicles with rear tube chassis design, but would limit front tube chassis in leiu of a ladder chassis, which allows mid mounted engine designs and tighter, lower COG designs which moves into the world of buggies. The top two vehicles (to my knowledge) have pretty much full length chassis rails, which encourages intelligent engineering to fit everything in and lower COG (eg dry sump in Phils GU).
2) recogniseable body work for the cab from the front of the front doors to the rear of the drivers seats.

Was still the best TTC yet!!!!!!!!

[evanstaniland]

1: crane lifting points [with competitors own chain set up to be carried so it can be "centred" for lifting] should be compulsory for all vehicles ... so much quicker to extract

even though excavators make recoveries easier i personally dont like them, they would be a tad better if they didnt rush so much, i know when i needed to be extracted off devils marbles they didnt look to where the best spot was to put the chains and in turn busted one of my new lights and started bending the rear light pannel instead of putting the chains behind it!!
maybe the use of lifting slings on the end of the chains so rather than jolting the crap out of the rig there will be some dampening from the sling (even 1m slings)...

Evan

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

1: crane lifting points [with competitors own chain set up to be carried so it can be "centred" for lifting] should be compulsory for all vehicles ... so much quicker to extract

even though excavators make recoveries easier i personally dont like them, they would be a tad better if they didnt rush so much, i know when i needed to be extracted off devils marbles they didnt look to where the best spot was to put the chains and in turn busted one of my new lights and started bending the rear light pannel instead of putting the chains behind it!!
maybe the use of lifting slings on the end of the chains so rather than jolting the crap out of the rig there will be some dampening from the sling (even 1m slings)...

i agree. my fibreglass bonnet got cracked on devils marbles. the only reason my frot clip, headlight and radiator werent damaged by the chain was because i had some protective barwork in place. but the bonnet sits above it.

but i do like the process of having the guy next to the driver telling him whats happening as you are recovered etc. that is really good.

Evan

[UZJ40]

another great weekend, just my 2cents worth-

mud run seems to be the big event where everyone comes to watch some action and socialize., its been said before but it needs to fast paced, it just got very boring between runs and by 8pm people were packing up and going. recoveries need to be faster, i relize somtimes this is very difficult, but while a recovery is happening have the next vehicle at the start ready to go( after some recoveries were fininished it was taking up to 4-5 minutes to get the next truck going) why?

possibly have the entertainment right next to the event, on the hill or somewhere close, and during the break for recovery, get the band to play or something similar, to keep the crowds entertained.

[RUFF]

1) Chassis rails between the line of the front axle and the rear of the "cab", ie behind drivers seats for single cabs. This would allow truggy style vehicles with rear tube chassis design, but would limit front tube chassis in leiu of a ladder chassis, which allows mid mounted engine designs and tighter, lower COG designs which moves into the world of buggies. The top two vehicles (to my knowledge) have pretty much full length chassis rails, which encourages intelligent engineering to fit everything in and lower COG (eg dry sump in Phils GU)

Did you ever get a look at the Defender i built for TTC 2005? It had full chassie rails and a mid mounted motor. So stupping tube chassies realy doesnt make a difference there. Im surprised more have not moved the motor back allready.

[alexcliffo]

1) Chassis rails between the line of the front axle and the rear of the "cab", ie behind drivers seats for single cabs. This would allow truggy style vehicles with rear tube chassis design, but would limit front tube chassis in leiu of a ladder chassis, which allows mid mounted engine designs and tighter, lower COG designs which moves into the world of buggies. The top two vehicles (to my knowledge) have pretty much full length chassis rails, which encourages intelligent engineering to fit everything in and lower COG (eg dry sump in Phils GU)

Did you ever get a look at the Defender i built for TTC 2005? It had full chassie rails and a mid mounted motor. So stupping tube chassies realy doesnt make a difference there. Im surprised more have not moved the motor back allready.

exactly, it shows that you dont need tube chassis to do it, just smart design. Would be even tougher with portal axles under full compression too.

[Strange Rover]

Would be even tougher with portal axles under full compression too.

Yea - to run portals with a low COG you pretty well carnt run a full length chassis - this is why all the new rigs with portals arnt running full factory chassis.

Look at the old school portalled axled rigs like the Mogrover, Long Shot, and Red Bitch - this is the height you get with a factory chassis from front to back. Incendently when I had the Mogrover it ran stock height range rover springs and had 3inches of up travel untill the axles hit the stock factiry bumpstops...that thing was as low as I could get it with a factory chassis.

The new style portalled rigs that dont run a factory chassis from front to back can get them sitting much lower with lots more uptravel.

I think its a shame that Tuff Truck didnt make people run factory chassis bacause if they did then portalled rigs have a dissadvantage in that they have a heigher COG...the way it is now there is no dissadvantage in running portals cause you can run a custom chassis.

In reality - this probably doesent matter though in the scheme of things bacause as long as the rigs are really cool, really capable and look like a tuff truck then this event will keep progressing.

Probably my only suggestion for tuff truck would be to loose the mudguard covering 50% tyres rule because the rule isnt working. The hot rod guards dont look like anything that belongs on a truck. I think Tuff Truck should make teams run a traditional outer guard - makes vehicles look more like trucks. Look at Bandaged Bear and Fire Truck...no outer guard makes them look like buggies. If Tuff Truck doesent jump on this now it will be way worse next year IMO.

Sam

[Webbie]

1: crane lifting points [with competitors own chain set up to be carried so it can be "centred" for lifting] should be compulsory for all vehicles ... so much quicker to extract

even though excavators make recoveries easier i personally dont like them, they would be a tad better if they didnt rush so much, i know when i needed to be extracted off devils marbles they didnt look to where the best spot was to put the chains and in turn busted one of my new lights and started bending the rear light pannel instead of putting the chains behind it!!
maybe the use of lifting slings on the end of the chains so rather than jolting the crap out of the rig there will be some dampening from the sling (even 1m slings)...

Evan

Um yes this was another issue i didnt raise but i dont care who is doing the
recovery it should be the way you want it done its your truck and if they brake it you will be the one fixing it. I realise that the TLCC are the offical recovery team but they still NEED TO ASK YOU HOW DO YOU WANT IT DONE. its a matter of courtsy ,and lets be serious not all of the poeple working for TLCC know it all or know your vehicle.

[1MadEngineer]

Would be even tougher with portal axles under full compression too.

Yea - to run portals with a low COG you pretty well carnt run a full length chassis - this is why all the new rigs with portals arnt running full factory chassis.

Look at the old school portalled axled rigs like the Mogrover, Long Shot, and Red Bitch - this is the height you get with a factory chassis from front to back. Incendently when I had the Mogrover it ran stock height range rover springs and had 3inches of up travel untill the axles hit the stock factiry bumpstops...that thing was as low as I could get it with a factory chassis.

The new style portalled rigs that dont run a factory chassis from front to back can get them sitting much lower with lots more uptravel.

I think its a shame that Tuff Truck didnt make people run factory chassis bacause if they did then portalled rigs have a dissadvantage in that they have a heigher COG...the way it is now there is no dissadvantage in running portals cause you can run a custom chassis.

In reality - this probably doesent matter though in the scheme of things bacause as long as the rigs are really cool, really capable and look like a tuff truck then this event will keep progressing.

Probably my only suggestion for tuff truck would be to loose the mudguard covering 50% tyres rule because the rule isnt working. The hot rod guards dont look like anything that belongs on a truck. I think Tuff Truck should make teams run a traditional outer guard - makes vehicles look more like trucks. Look at Bandaged Bear and Fire Truck...no outer guard makes them look like buggies. If Tuff Truck doesent jump on this now it will be way worse next year IMO.

Sam

You are right they should have made a minimum amount of chassis mandatory, BUT they FARRRRRKED up and its open slather now!! the only way to reign back in the modification is to state that origin bodywork is to cover a minimum of ~20% of the tyres, additional flares may then be added to fulfill the 50% requirement!! This means that you need near full sized bodies to get coverage not narrowed buggy things showing up in years to come, maybe even state that the floorpans should remain 'dimensionally correct' (ute as minimum) this means that most vehicles have a fairly even playing feild in terms of overall vehicle size. It would have been nice to have a rule that enforeces the OE chassis must remain 'dimensionally correct' from the front of the front wheels to behind the rear-most seating position!!! this would even out the feild!!!

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

there was no 50% mudguard requirement this year. it said 6inches though.

but i think the mudguard and chassis ideas rock.
putting the rules in now for next year would give teams a chance to rectify these designs getting back to trucks being trucks and prevent any "i didnt know" sob stories.

[Mick.]

1: crane lifting points [with competitors own chain set up to be carried so it can be "centred" for lifting] should be compulsory for all vehicles ... so much quicker to extract

even though excavators make recoveries easier i personally dont like them, they would be a tad better if they didnt rush so much, i know when i needed to be extracted off devils marbles they didnt look to where the best spot was to put the chains and in turn busted one of my new lights and started bending the rear light pannel instead of putting the chains behind it!!
maybe the use of lifting slings on the end of the chains so rather than jolting the crap out of the rig there will be some dampening from the sling (even 1m slings)...

Evan

Um yes this was another issue i didnt raise but i dont care who is doing the
recovery it should be the way you want it done its your truck and if they brake it you will be the one fixing it. I realise that the TLCC are the offical recovery team but they still NEED TO ASK YOU HOW DO YOU WANT IT DONE. its a matter of courtsy ,and lets be serious not all of the poeple working for TLCC know it all or know your vehicle.

They asked us every time they recovered us how we would like it done. I think if you have a problem all you would have to do is mention it to the guys doing the recovery and they would sort it out.

Cheers Mick.

[evanstaniland]

They asked us every time they recovered us how we would like it done. I think if you have a problem all you would have to do is mention it to the guys doing the recovery and they would sort it out.

Cheers Mick.

i wasnt asked when i was on devils marbles i had to tell them to move the chains after they said they were bending the light panel!!

Evan

[80lsy gq]

oh great


so now you want to change the rules again...

fair dinkum..the rules are there..let people build the trucks to suit the current rules....build buggies, build full chassis pretend cars or build a fair dinkum full chassis car...who cares..as long as the Tuffest Trucks in Oz turn up then it will still be Tuff Truck..personally i think this years Tuff Truck was one of the best

dave

ps..second place this year had a chassis???????????????????

[Dozoor]

2 classes

class 1 portals .

class 2 no portals . 37 inch tire limit .



Maybe loose the mud event ,replaced with a tight gymkana night event.
somthing where the cars are restricted in top speed by its design , and won,t get the cars stuck , so there would be a seemless event for the night audience .

Just some thoughts

GARBAGE.
If the people in the loop that know the amount of ottos required , and is there a tip close by ect if they PM me the details i may be able to assist
with this one , an idea of how many tonnes in the past would help .

[RUFF]

ps..second place this year had a chassis???????????????????

1st,2nd,3rd and 4th all have conventional TUFF TRUCK style chassies.

[Strange Rover]

2 classes

class 1 portals .

class 2 no portals . 37 inch tire limit .

So the truck that won this year with 49in tyres and no portals would be in which class???

The toughest truck has nothing to do with classes.

Sam