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Engine as air pump
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Engine as air pump
I have seen some old hoses that attach to the engine, replacing a spark plug, which can be used to blow up tyres.
Apparantly this method is not very popular anymore.
Can anyone tell me why? Does running one plug down damage the engine/electrics?
I believe the hoses used a schrader valve so the air was taken from outside the engine. Petrols only (or maybe take a glow plug out for a diesel?) and I assume only very low RPM would be used.
Without knowing any better, this sounds like a pretty simple and effective way to blow up tyres, since everyone has a bloody powerful pump called an engine...
Apparantly this method is not very popular anymore.
Can anyone tell me why? Does running one plug down damage the engine/electrics?
I believe the hoses used a schrader valve so the air was taken from outside the engine. Petrols only (or maybe take a glow plug out for a diesel?) and I assume only very low RPM would be used.
Without knowing any better, this sounds like a pretty simple and effective way to blow up tyres, since everyone has a bloody powerful pump called an engine...
Found some stuff on it:
http://www.barneymc.com/Toy_root/techta ... huffer.htm
http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/show ... p?p=683664
Looks like it may be too slow anyway. Oh well.
http://www.barneymc.com/Toy_root/techta ... huffer.htm
http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/show ... p?p=683664
Looks like it may be too slow anyway. Oh well.
Used to be fairly common.
I think it's just too hard on a modern engine these days.
I knew of a guy whose "air compressor" was a V8 engine with only one bank hooked up to fuel and spark. Basically one side of the V had power, the other side of the V was a motherfarkingly rugged air compressor.
I think it's just too hard on a modern engine these days.
I knew of a guy whose "air compressor" was a V8 engine with only one bank hooked up to fuel and spark. Basically one side of the V had power, the other side of the V was a motherfarkingly rugged air compressor.
This is not legal advice.
This really had me intrigued, so less than an hour ago, pulled apart an old compression gauge and clamped a tyre inflater to the hose.
It easily and quickly inflated some latex gloves (didn't try a tyre as the hose wasn't long enough! and I wasn't going to massacre my good compressor hoses!!)
With the injector solenoid dis-connected, there was no fire after a touch with the trusty Bic! But connecting the solenoid back up, it made a nice little fire-ball.
I'll post some pics later, once it gets a little darker to try and catch some flames on camera!
Conclusion: Works fine, but wouldn't be inflating tyres with an injection solenoid connected, or a carby engine! Diesel should be fine though, as it's not as easy to ignite.
Something else I will try later is letting the glove with fuel settle for a while, just to see how much fuel is actually being pumped through as gas.
It easily and quickly inflated some latex gloves (didn't try a tyre as the hose wasn't long enough! and I wasn't going to massacre my good compressor hoses!!)
With the injector solenoid dis-connected, there was no fire after a touch with the trusty Bic! But connecting the solenoid back up, it made a nice little fire-ball.
I'll post some pics later, once it gets a little darker to try and catch some flames on camera!
Conclusion: Works fine, but wouldn't be inflating tyres with an injection solenoid connected, or a carby engine! Diesel should be fine though, as it's not as easy to ignite.
Something else I will try later is letting the glove with fuel settle for a while, just to see how much fuel is actually being pumped through as gas.
Does diesel perish rubber? If it does, good way to kill a tyre. In any case, looking forward to pics.Mr Sausage wrote:This really had me intrigued, so less than an hour ago, pulled apart an old compression gauge and clamped a tyre inflater to the hose.
It easily and quickly inflated some latex gloves (didn't try a tyre as the hose wasn't long enough! and I wasn't going to massacre my good compressor hoses!!)
With the injector solenoid dis-connected, there was no fire after a touch with the trusty Bic! But connecting the solenoid back up, it made a nice little fire-ball.
I'll post some pics later, once it gets a little darker to try and catch some flames on camera!
Conclusion: Works fine, but wouldn't be inflating tyres with an injection solenoid connected, or a carby engine! Diesel should be fine though, as it's not as easy to ignite.
Something else I will try later is letting the glove with fuel settle for a while, just to see how much fuel is actually being pumped through as gas.
I'm not too sure about diesel having an effect on rubber (anyone?) But nonetheless, this system would seem like a good option if you were stuck without a compressor. Personally, I wouldn't be too keen driving around with potentially volatile wheels!Rockwolf wrote: Does diesel perish rubber? If it does, good way to kill a tyre. In any case, looking forward to pics.
Whereas I have seen the old trick of getting a new tyre to bead onto a rim after changing it with a splash of petrol, and they never seem to have a problem of exploding!
You can see this here
A common farmers alternative to provide compressed air out in the field is to get an old VW engine being aircooled and all. Mod it to run on 2 cylinders and the other two act as a pump, mount it to a small trailer or back of the ute.
2000 GU ST Patrol 4.2 turbo oiler not so bog stock anymore
"EVILGU"
"EVILGU"
Diesel will perish rubber.
I wouldn't use petrol to reseat beads - too hard to control the fire and a real risk of igniting the tyre, or everything.
Aerosol lighter fluid or equivalent volatile hydrocarbon ( aerostart, carby cleaner?) is the go. It can't create a burning pool as it evaporates too quickly.
The air pump will be fine with an EFI petrol with the injector pulled. Don't think it's feasible with a diesel.
Steve.
I wouldn't use petrol to reseat beads - too hard to control the fire and a real risk of igniting the tyre, or everything.
Aerosol lighter fluid or equivalent volatile hydrocarbon ( aerostart, carby cleaner?) is the go. It can't create a burning pool as it evaporates too quickly.
The air pump will be fine with an EFI petrol with the injector pulled. Don't think it's feasible with a diesel.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Good point Steve,
meaning, who on earth would want to sacrifice an expensive set of 4wd tyres by letting a small amount of diesel ruin them by inflating with the engine!
and as you've mentioned, aerosols do work best on beading, although I have done truck split rims and tractors personally with petrol, and it will work fine (just don't want too much fuel!) just need enough for a flash, so just a splash over the bead into the tyre is all you need.
meaning, who on earth would want to sacrifice an expensive set of 4wd tyres by letting a small amount of diesel ruin them by inflating with the engine!
and as you've mentioned, aerosols do work best on beading, although I have done truck split rims and tractors personally with petrol, and it will work fine (just don't want too much fuel!) just need enough for a flash, so just a splash over the bead into the tyre is all you need.
94 J-top Paj, 07 V8 Commodore Wagon
77 Corvette, 06 Harley V-rod, 07 Suzuki M109R Boulevarde
77 Corvette, 06 Harley V-rod, 07 Suzuki M109R Boulevarde
State Rail used to have a heap of these for compressed air on site at rail works. Most would have gone to auction/scrap by now.evil_hitman wrote:A common farmers alternative to provide compressed air out in the field is to get an old VW engine being aircooled and all. Mod it to run on 2 cylinders and the other two act as a pump, mount it to a small trailer or back of the ute.
God of Magnificant Ideas!
At one time these things were the only real option ppl had, especially for those in remote areas.
I still own a couple, although one is un-servicable the other is ready to go and is stored in a car....... my bash car !
Its more reliable than a 12volt 'plug in' air pump that we accept as the norm these days, it will work after many days of being covered in outback dust where as the 12volt pump simply cant handle the dust.
Its quicker to actually blow up a flat tyre using the addapter hose....
it takes up less room in the car.......
it will pump air for as long as there's fuel in the tank.....
it will pump even when the battery is dead !!!
( yes I've done this, screw it in then bump started the car )
About the only down side to these things is the hose...... they perish fairly quickly due to the fuel
Kingy
I still own a couple, although one is un-servicable the other is ready to go and is stored in a car....... my bash car !
Its more reliable than a 12volt 'plug in' air pump that we accept as the norm these days, it will work after many days of being covered in outback dust where as the 12volt pump simply cant handle the dust.
Its quicker to actually blow up a flat tyre using the addapter hose....
it takes up less room in the car.......
it will pump air for as long as there's fuel in the tank.....
it will pump even when the battery is dead !!!
( yes I've done this, screw it in then bump started the car )
About the only down side to these things is the hose...... they perish fairly quickly due to the fuel
Kingy
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
Where are you going to hook it in? Glowplug? You'd have to look pretty carefully at the engine design to see what was feasible.
It's really an old petrol engine trick. I'd be nervous about unscrewing a glow plug to pump my tyres personally, they can be a bit fragile.
Also, diesel isn't volatile like petrol so the fuel in the hose/tyres will be a lot bigger problem as it won't evaporate anywhere near as quickly.
I guess if you had a common rail diesel you could unplug the injector too, but I don't think lots of these run glowplugs now?
Steve.
It's really an old petrol engine trick. I'd be nervous about unscrewing a glow plug to pump my tyres personally, they can be a bit fragile.
Also, diesel isn't volatile like petrol so the fuel in the hose/tyres will be a lot bigger problem as it won't evaporate anywhere near as quickly.
I guess if you had a common rail diesel you could unplug the injector too, but I don't think lots of these run glowplugs now?
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
20 odd years ago I carried 2 of these in my 40 series, it had a 400ci small block so I would put one on each bank and do 2 tyres at once, I don't recall it being slow on my 35's but it was so long ago I would have been comparing it to a foot pump
The access in the 40's engine bay was good so it didn't take very long to set up.
Peter.
The access in the 40's engine bay was good so it didn't take very long to set up.
Peter.
Cable bracing is the way of the future!
v840 said "That sounds like a booty fab, hack job piece of shit no offence."
v840 said "That sounds like a booty fab, hack job piece of shit no offence."
One of the prime things that had to be observed was to let the motor idle only, no revving the engine. Got one at home, haven't used it since 12v jobbies became the norm. One thing to remember was that they got hot and a pain to remove if you had no gloves.
By the way natural rubber is attacked by any hydrocarbon. Diesel is worse than petrol as it does not evaporate as quick. If you want to know what diesel does to a tyre talk to anyone who soaks their tyres in diesel prior to a burnout comp.
hey Mr Sausage, As for the glove, if it was a latex type then wait a while and see if it degrades, I would lay money that it will.
By the way natural rubber is attacked by any hydrocarbon. Diesel is worse than petrol as it does not evaporate as quick. If you want to know what diesel does to a tyre talk to anyone who soaks their tyres in diesel prior to a burnout comp.
hey Mr Sausage, As for the glove, if it was a latex type then wait a while and see if it degrades, I would lay money that it will.
God of Magnificant Ideas!
The "perished rubber" is over a long time, 5 - 6 years... and is due to the effect that the petrol has on the rubber rather than the natural ageing of the rubber.grazza wrote:So Kingy, could they be used with a diesel?
And if they are pumping clean air, not air-fuel, then is there any other downside?
The one I use at the moment has had the hose replaced with a good quality air-line hose and doesnt seem to be suffering as yet, its going on 3 years now since it was fitted but the car that this hose 'lives in' is run on 99% LPG..... posiably the LPG is not having an effect on the plastic air-line
The unservicable unit I have just needs the hose replaced and away she goes again !. This hose was used heaps and was often left with air/fuel still in it and just thrown back into the boot of the car..... a distinct lack of care and maintance resulted in the rubber hose breaking down very quickly.
There would have to be a more suitable replacement hose available today, the air-line hose is working for me well but only time will prove its reliability.
An hydrolic hose shop may be the best place to get a reliable replacemnt hose, especially one that deals also with diesel engines as part of their business.... they would have all the right stuff and sizes
I recon the "small hydrolic style" hose ya see on Gernie's etc would be prity good
[color=blue][size=150][b]And your cry-baby, whinyassed opinion would be.....? [/b][/size][/color]
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