Change IP or Engine feasibility

[PeterAC]

I have a 2001 GXL100 turbo diesel. I want to know what has to be done to change IP from fully electronic to mechanical. What is involved and can I have a contact to talk about all issues.

Other option is to change from direct injection 1HD-FTE to indirect injection engine. Is that the 1HZ? How feasible is this. What is performance comparison of the two engines plus maintenance etc.

How come?????? Related to running on veg oil. I like the size of the 100 series compared to the 80, large family! Will sell the GXL if it is not cost effective and buy a ?????? 80 series if I have to.

Cheers Peter<><

[v6hilux]

Never heard of it myself on your model, but If there is a mechanical IP available that bolts in, you can probably do it. It would need a boost compensator for the turbo too.

Some people have done it to the 4 cyl Surf engine successfully. They were autos and have had to make co-acting accelerator mechanism to control the TPS for the gear changes. I also think the tacho needed to be changed as well.

[rockcrawler31]

I have a 2001 GXL100 turbo diesel. I want to know what has to be done to change IP from fully electronic to mechanical. What is involved and can I have a contact to talk about all issues.

Other option is to change from direct injection 1HD-FTE to indirect injection engine. Is that the 1HZ? How feasible is this. What is performance comparison of the two engines plus maintenance etc.

How come?????? Related to running on veg oil. I like the size of the 100 series compared to the 80, large family! Will sell the GXL if it is not cost effective and buy a ?????? 80 series if I have to.

Cheers Peter<><

Tell you what.

i'll give you a straight swap, my 1hz for your 1hd-fte.
Why in the world would you want to do this??? The 1hd-fte is a pearler of an engine and most folks swap to the direct injection motors.

1HZ Pros - simple motor, proven to do a million miles, torquey as hell and loves an aftermarket turbo

cons - simple motor is thirstier than a late motor (not by much i imagine) and if you try to screw too many horses out of it you will crack the head

Late motor - Pros - reliable, good power, economical if you baby it.

cons - um??

[PeterAC]

This is not really a performance question. I am wanting to run on veg oil and the indirect engine is the most suitable for it. For a direct injection engine it is best to use a mechanical IP. I'm looking at saving money on fuel. I tow a horse float and other heavy things around including a big family. I do minor off roading. I appreciate the replies but how cost effective is it???

Peter<><

[ferrit]

Spend a little bit more on your veg oil and process it into biodiesel, and you can then run it into your truck fine.


Considering you WONT get a good 1HZ from a wreckers for under $7000, that will buy you a lot of chemicals to process biodiesel.

and i drive a 1HZ 79 series that punts around a 4 tonne cruiser drilling rig, and i will tell you now, you will kick yourself stupid if you go from the TD motor to the 1HZ.

There isa mechanical pump for the 1HD-FT motor, but whether its interchangable with the 1HD-FTE engine, i dont know. you can do the mechanical pump swap in the Surf and hilux 3.0TD motors, since in europe in a limited number of countrys they released the 1KZ-T motor.

Even a 1998 1HD-FT in an 80 series is Electronic, and they only make 118kw too.

[rockcrawler31]

ahh, so sorry mista. misunderstood your motivations.

i suppose all other things being equal it wouldn't cost too much, assuming a mechanical IP from an earlier engine is a bolt in option. if your pump is good you could sell it and purchase another one for not much change over.

You will probably either lose some longevity in the engine though, or have increased running costs in servicing. Your pump has a boost compensator, so you would either have to

a. retrofit a boost compensator to the mech pump if it doesnt have one.
and if it doesnt

b. try and tune the motor as best you can, knowing that you will soot up the oil (and thus the engine) quicker. Thus either more frequent oil changes (dollars) or a shorter engine life (mucho dollars)

PM dzltec off this forum or dumbdunce, 'they are both diesel gurus.

i could be talking out my arse but that's what i see happening

M

[PeterAC]

Thanks rockcrawler31 anf ferrit.

This is along the lines of info I was after, I am greatful for the contacts. I have already made bio for it but don't really like handling chemicals like methanol. I also already run an old merc300D on veg and it goes fine.

The increased engine wear in soot build up is a worry. Not over mechanically minded, what does boost compensator do?

Thanks Peter<><

[v6hilux]

what does boost compensator do?

Thanks Peter<><

Because there is a turbo, the fuel flow to the injectors needs to be accelerated to coordinate with the turbo boosting the engine revs.

Standard NA mechanical advance IPs don't supply the excess fuel to match the RPM fast enough and major turbo lag is the result.

The electronic advance IP suited to a turbo engine does do it.

[rockcrawler31]

it feeds in more fuel per bang according to boost.

on my 1 hz which doesn't have the compensator, i either have to keep the fuel set low at factory which means i'm not getting the full benefit of the turbo, or wind up the fuel delivery which means that when off boost it will be injecting too much fuel - hence black smoke and soot.

the answer is to conservatively wind up fuel, but if you're off boost you need to remember not to floor it, it should be ok if you havn't got the fuel rack wide open.

[hdj105]

Even a 1998 1HD-FT in an 80 series is Electronic

False. No "E" = no electronics

[hdj105]

This is not really a performance question. I am wanting to run on veg oil and the indirect engine is the most suitable for it. For a direct injection engine it is best to use a mechanical IP. I'm looking at saving money on fuel. I tow a horse float and other heavy things around including a big family. I do minor off roading. I appreciate the replies but how cost effective is it???

Peter<><

Peter, you could change back to a mechanical pump but it's requires other work (timing case, timing gears, etc) so it will all add up.

What is it about the "electronic" pump that does not like veg oil, after all the electronic pump is still mechanical internally?

[PeterAC]

HDJ105, the following is from a well respected person in the biofuel industry in Europe :

"Anyway, the issues would be the Moisture content and the FFA content of used oils....

The electronic parts such as the actuator and position sensors in the pump could be affected by the FFA content...

FFA attacks Copper/cuprous metals...

The position sensor in a VP37 type consists of a resistive 'track' coating on a ceramic material with a 'wiper' contact attached to the actuator shaft. (Like a 'volume' control in an old radio) This is fully in contact with the fuel, so is subject to possible damage by FFA/Moisture content

This can be made Much worse if there is Any moisture/water present....

A total de-watering/drying of the oil is essential for any fuel-system, but particularly any that have electronic parts in contact with the fuel..."

That is why I am chasing the mechanical IP as a posibility. I already prepare Veg oil for one car, to make more of the same is easier than making two different types of fuels.

Cheers Peter<><

[Tim HJ61]

I have some recollection of Fitian converting a 1HD-FTE on the http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_users/ forum

I run 100% WVO in a 12H-T direct injection.

The major issue is to make sure the oil is hot prior to switchover and even more important to purge the oil out of the IP AND injectors prior to shutting off. The VE pumps have integral primer or lift pumps so are quite complex and hold a bit of fuel, meaning a longer purge time.

Yes there is a story around about DI and IDI, but from what I know as long as you follow the fundamentals DI is fine. I replaced the injectors on my 12H-T and there was no abnormal wear or build apparently caused by WVO. However the fine holes in the tips of the injectors brought home to me the importance of proper purging.

There is also a great deal of debate about copper. Joe Beatty's article is oft quoted. Real world experience suggests that copper fuel lines are okay, and the issue seems to be greater when there is a bit of water in the oil, as well as exposure to air such as inside a tank. The inside of an IP should never normally see air.

I'm not going to say, heck just do it, but do suggest some more queries on the Biofuels forum before you give up your terrific motor.

Tim

[udm]

i really did wish there were more people trying to get rid of a 1hdtfe...

so i can get my hands on one

[rockcrawler31]

back off. i got dibs in first!!!!

i even offered to give him a perfectly good 1hz for his piece of crap dino diesel guzzling FTE!

[udm]

mines got a turbo

[badger]

if you do go mechanical (1hdft injectors and pump etc) ill take your computor off your hands.

prob be cheaper n easier to pull the fte n swap in a ft............... doubt the transport authoritys would like it tho

why not sell n buy a 105 with a factory 1hz


ps i still want the putor

[fester2au]

There was a guy on lcool or offraod80s that pulled the FTE pump etc off and put the FT pump on but I think in his case he put an FTE in to replace a blown Ft so he already had a pump.

I have an FTE out of a ute and after talking to some industry turbo guys about more power I was led to believe the wagon motor has different injectors and different pump set ups so going back to an FT pump would probably hurt the motors power. Whether this in turn would hurt economy due to not running as efficiently I'm not sure but probably irrelevent if you are paying next to nothing for your fuel.

That european extract mentions a VP37 pump, my understanding is the cruiser pump is a VP44 and has no electronics inside it. I am also led to believe there are security codes/coding or something in the wagon pumps which including the ignition security is the reason why not so many are jumping at the wagon FTE for conversions.

The guy on the other forum also changed rocker cover, inlet tract etc but not sure if totally necessary. I expect you could have ECU problems without the pump that you may need to investigate first also.

This could be a very costly exercise before you start gettign your money back unless you can swap parts with someone else. It would also no doubt be highly illegal from a DOT and EPA perspective.

[Shadow]

Considering you WONT get a good 1HZ from a wreckers for under $7000, that will buy you a lot of chemicals to process biodiesel.

you can get a brand new long 1HZ from toyota for about $5k

[Shadow]

i would not even try to do it.

sell your 100series abd look for a 105, thats got the exact motor you want. You will be able to turbo it for the extra coin you get from the swapover.

It wont be as fast as your FTE, but it will take the vege oil better.

Ultimately you would want an inline injection pump which is lubed with sump oil, ala 12HT and 2H era.

[dumbdunce]

Peter, you could change back to a mechanical pump but it's requires other work (timing case, timing gears, etc) so it will all add up.

is the timing case/gears on a FTE any different?

[Dzltec]

A fte pump has a 4 bolt flange, a ft or 1hdt only has 2 bolts. So you will have to change the inner cover and anything else that may be required. Injectors are also different from ft to fte.

A fte pump is not a vp44, its is made by denso not bosch. As far as what we see from experience, its best to not run any elctronic pump on bio diesel. It is frought with danger and excessive cost to fix.


Andy

[hdj105]

is the timing case/gears on a FTE any different?

Yep, all 3 gears are different as is the rear timing cover.

[ferrit]

Considering you WONT get a good 1HZ from a wreckers for under $7000, that will buy you a lot of chemicals to process biodiesel.

you can get a brand new long 1HZ from toyota for about $5k

Im not going to call you stupid, but you do realise that a long motor is minus injectors, manifolds, pump, ancillaries etc..

Those easily add up the extra $2000- The pump alone is about $1200 new.

We just pulled a motor from our 1HZ powered drill rigs with a Turbo on it.

#5 piston is cracked in half!

[dumbdunce]

is the timing case/gears on a FTE any different?

Yep, all 3 gears are different as is the rear timing cover.

good to know, thanks

[PeterAC]

Ah, sorry I have not replied earlier but I have 2 new family members that are keeping me awake till the wee hours of the morning!

Thanks for the replies, I can assume that the consensus is to sell the 100 and purchase an 80 series with mechanical pump or go earlier if I don't mind slower less modern vechicle. I'm not up on what a 105 is but will look at that now on the net. Is this what people are saying???

Oh yes and someone wants the puter and the IP if I'm giving it away!!

Peter<><