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Stuff

General Tech Talk

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Stuff

Post by Suspension Stuff »

The purpose of this thread is to let you guys know what the differences are between variable/Flexy coils compared to regular coils.

What I have tried to achieve with the flexy coils is more flex without compromising on ride quality and longevity of the coil.

The centre coils below are up side down Patrol 3" lift rear soft flexy coils. I also have heavy duty flexy coils and softer flexy coils for those who have a shorty.

Image

You will notice that about 5 turns are wound fairly tight. These coils compress under normal driving and only uncompress when you flex it up. That's it. Pretty simple but it costs more to make them.

On the 3" lift I have not made the front ones flexy coils because it just isn't worth the hassle. I do supply softer front coils which do help a lot with front end flex. Being softer they are longer anyway. The softer fronts are available to suit a no winch and with a winch on a Patrol. I only have flexy 3" lift heavy duty front for the Crusier.

The rear flexy coils are slightly longer then the 4-5" lift rear coils so you can run the same shocks as the 4-5" lift guys.

I will edit this post tonight to include more info about the 4-5" lift coils on both the Patrol and Landcruiser.

You can read a bit more about it here https://www.suspensionstuff.com.au/shop ... cts_id=996

Feel free to ask questions.

Cheers
Shane
Last edited by Suspension Stuff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:36 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by rockcrawler31 »

I'm interested in these. i have 80x mounts and want to run about 4 inches of lift,but with longer springs at a lower spring rate particularly in the rear where i have an aframe. The main thing i would question is with all the extra coils are you likely to get binding on the coils, and will it cause damage or destroy their temper/spring rate

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Post by Suspension Stuff »

Hi Milo

Have you finished that beast yet?

Dobinsons coils get fully compressed before they send them out. If they don't come back up within 2mm then the coil doesn't pass their tests.

I had to re design my 3" Rangie flexy coils because they chucked them on me. They were probably 1mm over stressed.

There is a couple of turns more on these coils. Compressing the tight turns isn't an issue because they are not over stressed but compressing the rest on a regular basis wouldn't be ideal. There has been no problems with the Nissan coils and the 3" lift Cruiser coils.

I have only just got the 4-5" Cruiser flexy coils in stock and as we speak they have not been in a vehicle.

Milo if your rig is ready and you wanted to test them I would give a discount. Anybody else who wants to test the 4-5" Cruiser flexy coils will also get a discount and a refund if you are not fully happy with them. I don't have flexy coils for the front of the 4-5" Cruiser.

All these flexy coils are not pushing the boundaries, they are only about 2" longer then normal coils. You could easily get a lot more flex with extra soft coils however I will give a Suspension Stuff (Not manufacturers) 1 year warranty on all my lifted coils and if coils are going to sag you normally find out within 3 months or the first decent wheel that you do.

Cheers
Shane
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Post by rockcrawler31 »

sounds like a top offer mate

i'm hoping to be engineered and starting barwork this break, which means driving round the paddock and testing flex/clearance to barwork etc. So i might take you up on that offer.

considering my truck is neither 80x nor 75x what sort of weights do you need to get the spring rates right.

i have a weighbridge near me that is 4x4 friendly, and i can get overall, front axle and rear axle weights. but we will have to estimate the weight of the upcoming winch, bars, tray etc

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Post by Suspension Stuff »

I think we should start with the flexy coils on the rear and heavy duties up front and then swap the fronts if you don't sit level.
What are your plans on the rear? A steel tray might work well for when you put it on its side. :D

It is hard to determine the perfect setup until you have all your gear fitted such as your winch etc.

I do remember going wheeling with you at Ormeau in the pouring rain. My brother in-law had his Hilux and the tracks started turning into fast flowing creeks. I'm pretty sure it was your first time in there. Your rig has definitely come a long way since then. I like what you have done. Nice red too.

Shane
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Post by Auto-Craft »

That coil design looks very much like the design given to dobinsons that they have been making for us for some time now, exclusively, will be interesting to follow this up with Dobinsons today, and ensure the design differs from our rear coil design enough to not be an issue for supplying it.

We have also been doing them in 2 rates for front and rear, for cruiser as well as patrol, though ours does come with all the sway bar spacers, correct length shocks, in quality twin tube or FOX bolt ons, brake line spacers, castor correction etc etc, as a complete kit, rather than parts.

I note on the website you mention they can "coil chatter' [tapping noise you call it] though I did many desert miles, canning, Tanami, Nullabor across the dirt, Simpson 3 times, Madagan line, Hay river twice, with the coil design we use, and we had no issue with coil chatter, and I was running 750mm long front shocks and 980mm rears with the 3" lift "assassin slinky coils" as part of our Long Travel kit.

You do need to ensure you have the insulator between the coil, and the chassis, when you fit the coils, to stop any noise transfer.

You can see the coil design here, on my GU [before i sold it]

Image
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Post by GUJohnno »

We really should have a vendors section on this site.
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Post by Suspension Stuff »

EDIT: It
Last edited by Suspension Stuff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by roverrat »

:popcorn:


Oooo :D

Back on topic shane how do the flexy coils stand up to being loaded in a GU wagon on long trips aka Aust Outback?
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Post by Suspension Stuff »

EDIT: Just
Last edited by Suspension Stuff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by oondy »

roverrat wrote::popcorn:


Oooo :D

Back on topic shane how do the flexy coils stand up to being loaded in a GU wagon on long trips aka Aust Outback?
I had (and have put them back in now) some 4-5" flexy coils in the back of my GQ before I went to the Kimberley's last year. I did a quick test run around home while only half loaded up for my trip......lets just say that a higher rated spring is definitely needed for touring loads.

before I went away I put 340lb/inch coils in and lets just say I wouldn't want any lighter coils than that for what I did. i was carrying 170L diesel, 110L water, 1/2 length roof rack, 2x 33" spares plus a heap of spares, camping gear, food...blah blah blah. And after a few unsuspected washouts in the road I would have killed the flexy coils real good if still had them in.

The long coils i had in were rated from 215-305 lbs/inch and it was waaaaaaaay too light for heavy loads. but for a lightly loaded camping trip.....boo yah....go for it.

cheers

OONDY
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Post by Suspension Stuff »

oondy wrote:
roverrat wrote::popcorn:


Oooo :D

Back on topic shane how do the flexy coils stand up to being loaded in a GU wagon on long trips aka Aust Outback?
I had (and have put them back in now) some 4-5" flexy coils in the back of my GQ before I went to the Kimberley's last year. I did a quick test run around home while only half loaded up for my trip......lets just say that a higher rated spring is definitely needed for touring loads.

before I went away I put 340lb/inch coils in and lets just say I wouldn't want any lighter coils than that for what I did. i was carrying 170L diesel, 110L water, 1/2 length roof rack, 2x 33" spares plus a heap of spares, camping gear, food...blah blah blah. And after a few unsuspected washouts in the road I would have killed the flexy coils real good if still had them in.

The long coils i had in were rated from 215-305 lbs/inch and it was waaaaaaaay too light for heavy loads. but for a lightly loaded camping trip.....boo yah....go for it.

cheers

OONDY
In the 3" lift flexy coils I have extra heavy duty ones which have the same wire thickness as my heaviest coils in the normal 3" lift coils.

In the 4-5" lift flexy coils I also have a heavier front and rear flexy coils which can carry more weight then the softer flexy coils. I will note however that the 4-5" lift flexy coils are softer then the 3" lift flexy coils however I have been told by a customer who has loaded up the heavy duty rear 4-5" flexy coil and he said that it carried a big load well. (I'm getting a bit tongue tied here)

If down the track I feel that they are not heavy enough for the big trips I will get heavier ones again made up.

Shane
Last edited by Suspension Stuff on Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by oondy »

Mine actually held the height pretty well, sat a bit lower than the heavy coils but when i hit a washout or a bump the car sat right down on the bump stops and came up a again....it just didn't feel too safe in the mean time.

cheers

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Post by Suspension Stuff »

oondy wrote:Mine actually held the height pretty well, sat a bit lower than the heavy coils but when i hit a washout or a bump the car sat right down on the bump stops and came up a again....it just didn't feel too safe in the mean time.

cheers

OONDY
OONDY, it sounds like you probably have the same 4-5" flexy coils in the normal duty and they are quite soft, this is why I got heavier ones made up. I didn't get a chance to do my write up on the 4-5" lift coils to explain this.

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Post by roverrat »

oondy wrote:Mine actually held the height pretty well, sat a bit lower than the heavy coils but when i hit a washout or a bump the car sat right down on the bump stops and came up a again....it just didn't feel too safe in the mean time.

cheers

OONDY

its always a compromise I guess .. flex or load .. hard to have both and still maintain ride height i guess ..
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Post by Suspension Stuff »

EDIT: isn't
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Post by Auto-Craft »

4WD Stuff wrote:
OFF TOPIC
I phoned up Dobinsons and as far as they are concerned I am the first person to get 3" lift flexy coils made at their factory. (There is a slight possibility that you have dealt with someone else at Dobinsons and your coils slipped through without my contact knowing) If they had part numbers there to copy they wouldn't have spent hours and days helping me with my designs.
I have to get them made up in lots of 10 for them to make them for me.
What is the business name that you use at Dobinsons? Which Dobinsons do you deal with?

Shane
Shane, in response to your questions,

i spoke with Dobinsons, and they have given you the old slinky design which was for an overseas customer, from 3 years ago, before we started, that wasnt successful for them, when they tested them, and they had a set left over, that we tried also, and found unsuccessful, before we came up with our own designs, based on the initial requirement, with both dead coils, and tapered wire.

We have been working in conjunction with Ateco / Ridepro, as josh Brown has been involved with Dobinsons for many many years, and we have been dealing with the owners, so maybe your contact isnt in that area? Ridepro are a long term customer of Dobinsons, and have been working with us, as we have been having these coils made for over 2 years and also for our export market overseas for certain models, and we also developed a range of shocks, in silver series, to match the coils with Ridepro, which are extra long, up to 700mm front and 735mm rear, as well as install kits based around these coils, so with the lift not being to high, 35" or even 37" are possible, and it comes with all the tried and tested parts to make it work, from brake line requirements, to castor correction, arm relocation, billet control arms, to bump spacers, so the customer can just install, or have it installed, bolt on, and have the full warranty on all the parts supplied where ever they are, as most of the vehicles we build are for more extreme touring, fully loaded, even well over GVM some end up packed, more so than weekend warrior trucks.

We are still speaking with Dobinsons regarding the part No and design of your coil, well, now 3 you mention, so will have more information over the next few days, as we are about to update our coil design again, now new wire which works better is available, and works out cheaper, with the 2 recent price rises, and another about to come on coils, which drastically effects the slinky coil prices, given thy have so much more steel in them.
4WD Stuff wrote: Stock everything expcept coils and shocks my GU Wagon ramped the same height as a 44 Gallon drum. This is about 200mm - 300mm higher then most 3" lift Patrols.
We have also found, our slinky long travel kit ramps the same as the red truck above on Fox, with standard everything, except shocks, coils, castor correction, as per the pic below of our slinky kit. The ramp is 1350mm high [compared to 900mm for a 44 gal drum]

Image
Image
Image
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Post by Suspension Stuff »

EDIT: Worth
Last edited by Suspension Stuff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Suspension Stuff »

This is a link to a full 3" lift kit besides sway bar link pins. Sway bar link pins coming soon and they will be cheap and strong.

https://www.suspensionstuff.com.au/shop ... ts_id=1004
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Post by RUFF »

Image

Darren what are you trying to prove with this pic? Could you find a more stupid pic to try and prove a point? You have the RF wheel running up the ramp. Show us a pic with the rear tyre in the exact same spot and the RF on the ground and it may make sence. But i imagine with the RF on the deck the LR would not be on the ground at this point right? Meaning you ran out of flex a long way down the ramp.

Maybe you should design an IFS rig. I hear Walker Evens runs one in Rock Crawling ;)
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Post by sootygu »

GUJohnno wrote:We really should have a vendors section on this site.
cant agree with you more.

this look at my prodcut is becoming more frequent by some members.
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Post by Suspension Stuff »

EDIT: trying
Last edited by Suspension Stuff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by GUJohnno »

sootygu wrote:
GUJohnno wrote:We really should have a vendors section on this site.
cant agree with you more.

this look at my prodcut is becoming more frequent by some members.
Maybe we could arange some sort of arm wrestle between 4WD Stuff and ATS.

Or maybe a test to see who can beat their own chest the loudest :D
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Post by oondy »

GUJohnno wrote:
Maybe we could arrange some sort of arm wrestle between 4WD Stuff and ATS.

Or maybe a test to see who can beat their own chest the loudest :D
bahahahahahahah.............GOLD...ABSOLUTE GOLD...

cheers

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Post by GUJohnno »

The above was tongue and cheek, but seriously, if this was a tech info thread then, you would be telling us about the product and giving us part numbers to use.
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Post by sootygu »

4WD Stuff wrote:
sootygu wrote:
GUJohnno wrote:We really should have a vendors section on this site.
cant agree with you more.

this look at my prodcut is becoming more frequent by some members.
On all of these other forums we wouldn't be discussing these products. I haven't posted this up on the Patrol forum or the 4WD Action forum or AURLO forum or the Cruiser forum, it's on Outers up for discussion. You hear things first on Outers. The other forums will hear stuff down the track via Outers members.

Having said that, this thread did go pear shape because Darren thinks he has exclusive rights to variable coils. Darren I do understand your frustration mate, thinking your designs got copied, because down the track people are going to be steeling my designs also. It has cost me a lot of money to get these flexy coils up and running. Not all my designs worked perfectly the first time.

As Darren says, because of the price of steel going through the roof, anything suspension will be going up in price very soon.

Shane

i'm not having a go at anyone who has new products to promote its all the better for the end user. but there has been a few threads like this turned to s*** because theirs v our products.
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Post by DIRTY ROCK STAR »

MY Q. is at the end of the day, i run 2 inch lifted lovells coils in my Fj40/ute/comp truck. im only interested in flex i coudlnt give a $h1t about onroad handling or load carrying.
whos coils are going to give me the most droop and still reasonable up travel (once i retain my coils which fell out at TTC)...
is there a clear winner?
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Post by Suspension Stuff »

DIRTY ROCK STAR wrote:MY Q. is at the end of the day, i run 2 inch lifted lovells coils in my Fj40/ute/comp truck. im only interested in flex i coudlnt give a $h1t about onroad handling or load carrying.
whos coils are going to give me the most droop and still reasonable up travel (once i retain my coils which fell out at TTC)...
is there a clear winner?
I have some SWB flexy coils that are quite soft. They would give you about a 2.5" lift. (Or half an inch higher then normal 2" lift LWB coils) They would be too soft for most applications but I think they would stretch really well for rock crawling. If you dropped off a ledge you would need bump stops that are softer then stock Nissan ones. No doubt you have all this sorted.

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Post by 1MadEngineer »

DIRTY ROCK STAR wrote: whos coils are going to give me the most droop and still reasonable up travel (once i retain my coils which fell out at TTC)...
is there a clear winner?
Yep, something FACTORY!!!! we only use OEM (old) springs and coils!! damn'it they are still alive after umpteen years in a std vehicle and they will last a few more in ours. It just seems they use a better grade of material, not just a blend of old Malvern Stars and coke cans, but real STEEL!!!! we have tried heaps of aftermarket stuff over the years and NOT ONE has lasted, yet the crappy junkyard stuff just takes it!!! (and is cheap). At one stage we were sponsored by a suspension company and the springs they made/arranged for us (a copy of nissan pathfinder rears) lasted a whole 30mins of competition!!!! so they were replaced with the same old set that are still in the lux!!! and the poor old girl still gets 1000RTI on a 30 deg ramp, not bad for leafs and 118" wheelbase.
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Post by RUFF »

sootygu wrote:
GUJohnno wrote:We really should have a vendors section on this site.
cant agree with you more.

this look at my prodcut is becoming more frequent by some members.
There is only one person on this site that has any say in what is and isnt allowed here. Thats me ;) Would you all prefere me to delete every activly posting member from here that owns a shop or supplies products to the industry?

Shane isnt here spamming anyone. Shane has been here for a very long time and has put the hard yards into helping out the average joe for free. Just like Darren(ats) has also and many other "vendors" have as well.

If every second post a vendor had on here was "hey buy my product" then we would have a problem but at this point in time im happy with what is going on.


As for a dedicated "vendor" section it is in the pipe line and allways has been.
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