3/4 elliptic setup pics?

[GRPABT1]

Hey guys I did a search for 3/4 elliptic setups but there was only one thread with no pics anymore. Any info and pics people have so I can get my head around it would be good. I was thinking of doing it to the rear of my zook for a little more droop without going drop shackles. Anyone got any info or links to share with a how to?

[norm84]

befor the SEARCH natzies get ya

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic142 ... highlight=

thats a link for leaf set ups, but there is heaps of info on there for what you want

[GRPABT1]

Like I said, I did a search and saw that thread. What I am after is mainly pics so I can visualize what people are saying.

I found this thread on pirate http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... buggy+leaf

And I really like this setup and am considering it. I notice alot of them mention traction bars being necessary for 3/4 setups but I assume this is only relevent for SPOA?

[zook4fun]

you normaly run trac bar when spoa because you pull leafs out of your spring pack to get it to sit flatter, if you don't pull leafs out you might get away with it.

think about what way the axle will warp under load, the rear of the spring is bolted th the chassis buy the shackel, with this set up you may flex the elliptic spring if your into it and have taken leafs out.

[Gwagensteve]

It's not entirely only for SPOA cars. The unloading effect can get a nasty hop going in some situations. In this way, it's probably worse than wacky shackles.



Here's Critta after it had accidently driven up a tree. The tree was unharmed. This should show you pretty much everything involved in rear 3/4

Interestingly, some cars seem to get the hop and others don't. Critta didn't hop that I remember, But Grimbo's car and Josh's SWB did.

Personally, I don't think I'd do it on a SWB, especially one with a fair bit of lift in it.

It does work but it does need careful bumpstop placement, shock choice and LOTS of leverage to make it work - the more leverage (heavy tires, track width, heavy axles) the better it works.

Remember too that it doesn't really add any traction to your car. It does look cool, can help balance travel front to rear with flexy front ends, and can improve the feel of the car in tight, technical stuff, but it won't really make the difference between driving and obstacle and not.

Just some of my thoughts. I've done a few 3/4 cars.

Steve.

[GRPABT1]

Yeah I see what you mean Steve, the reason I want to do it is to balance front and rear travel as my front seems to flex better than the rear. I'd take leaves out of the rear but my zook sits nice and level as it is and I carry a fair bit of weight when camping. I notice that pic you posted is NT spacing, using ubolts to hold the spring. I think I will be copying the setup in the pirate link.

I have plenty of room to build custom top shock mounts due to the ute chop and plan to move the diff back a couple of inches (front is forward 1 inch already). But what are your thoughts on bump stops? I need to move mine when I move the diff anyway and I thought welding some box over the plate and spring (so spring goes through the box) for my extended stops would sort that out.

I have the new 15X8 rims and plan to run 31X10.5 pedes.

Does the hop happen perhaps cause the 3/4 spring used is too soft or long? I only want a little more droop and was thinking of using my old front main leaf but perhaps clamped a little short.

[built4thrashing]

for the time and effort youd be better off getting some longer rear springs and longer shackles.

[GRPABT1]

Yeah ok, did I ask about longer springs and shackles? Somehow I don't think a chassis extension or removing and re-welding spring mounts, to fit longer springs and 10bazillionty inch long shackles to gain whatever lift I may loose would be better or easier than the setup I have plus a simple plate welded and 3/4 spring mounted.

[GRPABT1]

I know it sounds a little dogey but could I kill two birds with one stone by mounting the springs so the shackle angle is a little higher on one side to help combat the old sierra lean? As it is I planned on mounting it so the shackle angle is more horizontal to offset the tiny bit of lilft I'll gain but I thought I might be able to kill two birds with one stone. Or would this create some negative affects?

[Spike_Sierra]

for the time and effort youd be better off getting some longer rear springs and longer shackles.

hes got a good point there as you will still need to move your old shackle mounts.

I just moved my old shackle mounts on the LWB to put longer springs in(~120mm longer) and the shackle mounts are really easily removed and rewelded. This setup gave me 180mm of droop.

steve, was there alot of banging when the spring rested back on the chassis.

[GRPABT1]

You wouldn't have to move the old shackle mounts. If you look at the link I posted they are still there and there is just a plate welded over it. I should be able to cut the plate off and revert it back to stock if I want to.

[Aerenandmel]

Engineered sprungover + 3/4 eliptic + track bar, but has a chassis extention which made it an easy job and I have never experienced any hop either

[GRPABT1]

Looks to be NT spacing also.

[Aerenandmel]

Looks to be NT spacing also.

Is NT with WT wheel turners......

[11_evl]

can this be used at the front??
is it advisable??
id say no but if used WITH a panhard rod maybe??

its only till i get the time to coil the front as well , so having the panhard wont be a bad idea???

[Gwagensteve]

There doesn't seem to be any really noticeable banging until the car starts to hop.

The effect of the 3/4 is quite tunable depending on the length, arch and rate of the buggy leaf.

I built a shackle reversed car with 3/4 front years ago. I don't feel that buggy leaf is feasible without a shackle reverse. However, the shackle reverse means that the buggy leaf will be short and steeply angled, following the angle of the chassis. IMHO, the advantage is minimal.

I don't think leaving the shackle mount in place is advisable. It's messy, will change the travel arc of the rear suspension, and the shackle angle will be hard to tune, and the 3/4 will actually be less effective set up like this.



This car ran a very very soft and long rear 3/4. It was probably underdamped so it was very loose but it was very "active" on its 3/4 and had LOTS of travel. With refinement this would have been the business. but it also had a very long wheelbase for a SWB suzuki - probably nearly as long as a stock LWB. It was also wide - 2" Wheelspacers, 8" rims, 12.5's

Steve.

[ljxtreem]

There doesn't seem to be any really noticeable banging until the car starts to hop.

The effect of the 3/4 is quite tunable depending on the length, arch and rate of the buggy leaf.

I built a shackle reversed car with 3/4 front years ago. I don't feel that buggy leaf is feasible without a shackle reverse. However, the shackle reverse means that the buggy leaf will be short and steeply angled, following the angle of the chassis. IMHO, the advantage is minimal.

I don't think leaving the shackle mount in place is advisable. It's messy, will change the travel arc of the rear suspension, and the shackle angle will be hard to tune, and the 3/4 will actually be less effective set up like this.



This car ran a very very soft and long rear 3/4. It was probably underdamped so it was very loose but it was very "active" on its 3/4 and had LOTS of travel. With refinement this would have been the business. but it also had a very long wheelbase for a SWB suzuki - probably nearly as long as a stock LWB. It was also wide - 2" Wheelspacers, 8" rims, 12.5's

Steve.

Ahhh memories

Mock

[built4thrashing]

I dont think a 3/4 setup would be that easy in a WT. i Think youd get better results from a RUF setup similar to what i did and then longer springs with a military wrap in the rear. you can extend your wheelbase by the position of the locating pin. You can easily extend it by 2 1/2 inches with stock springs. To get teh best from the longer springs the top shock mounts will need to be moved and longer shocks used but ya would have to do this anyway with the buggy leaf setup.

[GRPABT1]

I don't plan to have mine that soft, I only want a slight increase in travel to match the front. Stability is a bigger priority than travel for me. How will the travel arc of the suspension be changed? Leaving the mount in place will give a tiny lift (10mm?) but I plan to combat this by making the shackle angle less vertical and hence also helping droop. I will look at fiddling with shackle angles to fix the lean also unless you guys advise against it.

[Gwagensteve]

Do some measuring and have another look at the thread on pirate. The shackle mount + the striker plate require will lower the rear mount a fair bit. Add a longer shackle to that, and the 3/4 (although 3/4 doesn't really need a long shackle per se) and you'll find the axle will start to move much more fore/aft than stock. The effect will be the rear axle starting to drive under the car on climbs, and the 3/4 will actually start to unload, making the hop/banging etc worse.

the angled striker plate will also make the buggy leaf sweep forward more under droop, complicating the shackle angle solution. This can be hard to resolve and is very dependent on the amount of compression travel you run.

If you run a longer main leaf, the shackle mount will be in the wrong spot and this will push the striker even higher - 3"? below the chassis. This will have major geometry implications.

Remember that as the 3/4 unloads the axle will start to move forward.

Shackle angle is largely irrelevant once you go 3/4, (except in realtion to my point above) a vertical shackle won't hurt droop at all as the 3/4 will take it all. Have a look at both photos of unloaded 3/4 setups I've posted - you'll see almost no difference in shackle angle between compressed and drooped. The shackle only needs enough length to account for compression, not droop.

Do not adjust shackle angles to fix the lean. the way to fix the lean is with more spring rate on the heavy side, not by changing geometry on one side. The springs will be fighting each other the whole time.

Steve.

[GRPABT1]

Righto I see what you mean now, the plate appears to be only slightly angled in the pirate thread. Know knowing what you mentioned about it could I weld the plate in so it is straight or angled the other way even? Just by spacing down the bump stop mount? Yes this will give me a little lift in the rear without stuffing around with shackle angles (I still intend on using the same springs and shackles I already have) but that is fine as if anything the rear is a little lower already.

[Gwagensteve]

Draw a line between the two spring mount locations on your car now. The more you lower the rear mount, the more the axle moves fore/aft during travel. This is also true of longer shackles too, but with the exaggerated droop of 3/4, you will notice it a lot more.

What's the obsession with leaving the shackle mount in place? Personally, I think your dooming the 3/4 because you don't want to commit to installing it properly. There's going to be some cuttting and welding in the job anyway, even if only for the shock mounts, so you might as well do a bit more and finish the job neatly. In terms of making it look clean, the best way would be to narrow track the spring spacing and then the buggy leaf will just sit flat along the chassis.

You'll never regret narrow tracking the spring spacing, even if you subsequently weld the shackle hanger back on.

Steve.

[GRPABT1]

I would like to go NT but I'm not confident welding the diff housings myself and I don't wanna fork out the coin to get it done professionally. I have made the plates up at work today and plan to buy a welder in a week or so and after having a look I might cut a bit of the old shackle mount off, just the litte anti inversion tab thingy. And weld a bit of plate to the bump stop mount and that will get the plate level or even a bit higher at the rear and without the tab in the way will give less lift. If you look on the pirate thread he has just welded onto the tab which I plan to remove, without this and a spacer on the bump stop mount it should be level.

[rustyzook]

with the NT chasie, it flares out at the end, so how do you get this to work? do you need to weld a new rail on?

[Zook_Fan]

sorry to bring up and old thread but does this set up pretty much rid yourself of bumpstops?

[lay80n]

sorry to bring up and old thread but does this set up pretty much rid yourself of bumpstops?

.



Totally the opposite, 3/4 requires good bumpstop setup to achive decent opperation. No suspension should ever be rid of some form of bumpstop (not including bottomed out shocks)!

Layto....

[Gwagensteve]

No, the factory suzuki axle mounted bumpstop stays on place if you are SPUA.

Have a close look at aerenandmel's photo he's used front bumstops on his Ubolt plates on the rear and a 2" (or so) spacer on the plate that holds the 3/4 in place.

(PS this is my pet topic but bumpstops are a massively important part of getting the suspension to work properly)

Steve.

[Zook_Fan]

so more or less the bumpstop stays on the diff and when bottoming out so to speak it just hits on the half spring attached to make it eliptic? Do they need to be extended to get the best results?

[Gwagensteve]

Correct, and no, there's no need for an extension unless you've got tyre/guard clearance problems already.

Steve.

[lump_a_charcoal]

Can this thread be added to the bible? The other one is people just putting shit on each other....