Front Locker for NJ Auto

[barneymutt]

Hi all, If been searching the forums for an answer to this but can't find one, so hoping someone might be able to help me.
I have a '94 NJ 3.0L Auto and I want a front locker for it.
Apparently their not available for the auto, so what I'd like to know is can I swap the front diff for one out of a manual.
Does anyone know what the difference is?
Also my Gregory's workshop manual says the rear diff is either a locker or LSD, But guess what, it isn't either. I don't understand why anyone would fit an open diff to a 4x4.
Thanks in advance guys.
Gary

[-Scott-]

Not sure precisely what the differences are (search here long enough and it's all been discussed) but I think it's essentially 7.5" (auto) vs 8" (manual.) I believe it is possible to swap them over, but not sure what's involved. Just make sure you get the right ratio.

How do you know you don't have an LSD? I thought I was without one for a year or two, until I learned how they really work - and discovered mine works well.

Even a good LSD will slip under the wrong circumstances. A few clicks on the handbrake normally makes all the difference.

[NJV6]

Yes the 8 inch diff bolts straight in. To do the swap you also need the 8 inch drive shaft as the pinion is longer and so driveshaft shorter.

Otherwise thats all you need.

[barneymutt]

Oh goodo, I'll start looking for one. I just noticed the front seal is leaking.
As for the rear, I was told the only way to tell if you have an LSD is jack up one wheel and try and drive off the jack. So I did, the raised wheel just spun.
So based on that I don't have an LSD.
Thanks for your help fellas
PS. I'll tell the missus it's cheaper to replace the diff than the seal. That should get me one

[NJV6]

NO trying to drive off the jack is not how a LSD works. You would need a locker or a highly modified (more shims) LSD to drive off a jack.

So that test doesn't and won't work.

What would work better is doing a burnout on tarseal....

But seriously jack up both back wheels and rotate one. Leave the vehicle in gear. If the wheel opposite the one you spin turns the same way then you have an LSD. If its the opposite then open.

Typically this method will work.

As Scott eluded to, they require some sort of resistance to work propeerly so when you are cross axles a LSD won't get you out. But if proir to getting crossaxled you have the handbrake on a few clicks so it is just dragging then it can be very effective.

I don't have one anymore but I think that's what Scott was referring too...

[barneymutt]

Ok, I'll give that a go.
Thanks Mate

[-Scott-]

But seriously jack up both back wheels and rotate one. Leave the vehicle in gear. If the wheel opposite the one you spin turns the same way then you have an LSD. If its the opposite then open.

Typically this method will work.

Um, no. If the vehicle is left in gear the prop-shaft can't turn, so the diff has no choice but to spin the opposite wheel in the opposite direction - LSD or not.

The prop-shaft must be free to turn. With an open diff, it's easier for the axle you are turning to turn the side gears (and spin the other axle in the opposite direction) than turn the crownwheel, pinion and prop-shaft.

With an LSD, to spin the side gears requires the clutch packs to slip. It's easier for the axle to turn the crownwheel, pinion and prop-shaft than it is to slip the clutch packs. If the prop-shaft cannot turn (i.e. in gear) then the only way to turn one wheel is to slip the clutch packs and cause the other wheel to turn.

This is Mitsubishi's official test for the clutch packs. Special adaptor on the hub, and measure the torque required to turn the wheel (and force the LSD to slip.) If it requires enough torque the packs are considered to be OK (or your bearings are completely shagged. )

As Scott eluded to, they require some sort of resistance to work propeerly so when you are cross axles a LSD won't get you out. But if proir to getting crossaxled you have the handbrake on a few clicks so it is just dragging then it can be very effective.

I don't have one anymore but I think that's what Scott was referring too...

I think so too.

Mitsubishi LSDs (well, the earlier ones) are "ramp loading" (like Nissan LSDs) - they tighten as more load is applied. When one wheel is off the ground, there is little resistance and the packs slip easily. Add some resistance (such as the handbrake), increase the load on the packs and they grip better - the slip is limited. It's got me out of trouble a couple of times.

[NJV6]

Um, no.

I knew that! Just checking you did too...

[-Scott-]

Um, no.

I knew that! Just checking you did too...

So, did I pass the test?

[barneymutt]

So how do I check if the diff is open or LSD?

[pickle]

More than likely would have one if it's a GLS as most of them did, but you can check for a bright orange sticker in the drivers side door opening.
Dave

[NJV6]

So how do I check if the diff is open or LSD?

Read above posts.....

[barneymutt]

The above post's don't make any sense to me.
I've never had any experience with an LSD.
I haven't noticed a bright orange sticker but will have a look.

[barneymutt]

Well bugger me, I've never noticed that bright orange sticker before.
Thanks Mr Pickle
Thank you also NJV6 and Scott.

[NJV6]

The above post's don't make any sense to me.

But seriously jack up both back wheels and rotate one. Make sure the vehicle is in Neutral. If the wheel opposite the one you spin turns the same way then you have an LSD. If its the opposite then open.

I just corrected the piece I got wrong which Scott corrected me in the later post.

[barneymutt]

Hi guys,
I went and saw a chap at ARB Coopers Plains and he couldn't have been more helpful. He told me the reason ARB don't do a front locker for an auto is the diff internals are just too small to fit in the locker. So in order to get one I'll have to swap it for a manual diff.
I thought I'd share this in case others wondered the same thing.

[NJV6]

Good to see you read the 1st two responses to your original post........

[Glennb]

Good to see you read the 1st two responses to your original post........

I think hes refering to WHY no one makes a front locker, which there is no answer to in the reply posts.

[Lambie]

hey Scott - This resistance thing and LSD's you mentioned that the back wheels need a bit of resistance and thats where the handbrake comes in.................

Trust me I've tried (in vain) to get my handbrake to wedge herself under a spinning rear wheel - but never been successful . Though I've found getting your handbrake to push can work wonders sometimes...........LOL

Lambie

[viducce]

Yes the 8 inch diff bolts straight in. To do the swap you also need the 8 inch drive shaft as the pinion is longer and so driveshaft shorter.

Otherwise thats all you need.

Hi there,

I am in the process to swap my front Diff on my LWB 3000 V6 24V AUTO of 1997.
Does it apply to my Modell as you describe above?
How about the ratio?

BTW my chasis n° is JMBORV430WJ000329

1. 8 inch diff + 8 inch driveshaft of a 3000 V6 manual, that's it, sounds really simple & than I can get my ARB locker installed as well?

I am complete novice to the subject and would like get an front ARB locker for my rig.

Thanks & Cheers, Chris

[viducce]

Hi Friends,

just found this about how to identify the diff on pajeros:

NH Pajero front diff is stamped KN5 and is 8 inch , and lockers are freely available for those.

these will bolt into the Deli no problem , you will need to shorten the front propshaft by 10mm to make it fit.

be aware Pajeros come in 4.875 and 4.636 , you will need 4.636 most likely , check your compliance plate for diff ratio.

Is this correct, can anybody confirm this?

Cheers, Chris

[NJV6]

it may be 4.625 and not 4.636 so as you say - make sure you check the plate under the bonnet.

[Guy]

ARB don't do a front locker for an auto is the diff internals are just too small to fit in the locker.

7.5 inch diff is to small is BS
They make ARB airlockers for suzuki sierra's with a 7 inch diff centre from memory front diff.
They make em for the 8 inch due to strength and tooling (easier and cheaper to make one size and stick to it)

[barneymutt]

Your probably right there bud. Sometime ago A fellow from ARB told me "We don't do much for Pajero's because there're not really an offroad vehicle". I just shook my head and walked away.

[Kool68]

G'day mate,
I believe you can fit a manual complete diff in the front. You'll also need a manual passengers side cv shaft. The drivers side is the same as the auto. If you have a look on the Pajero Club of Victoria's forum you'll see a bit about this. I have a 91 NH auto & plan to install a Lokka.
Cheers,
Adam

[VHPirie]

Is there any reason NOT to weld the front diff? If ya don't have ya hubs locked in, and ur not in 4wd....ya wouldn't even know it had a welded diff hey? Then when ya go off road she'll be locked.

[Kool68]

Is there any reason NOT to weld the front diff? If ya don't have ya hubs locked in, and ur not in 4wd....ya wouldn't even know it had a welded diff hey? Then when ya go off road she'll be locked.

because they're an auto lock?

[VHPirie]

Is there any reason NOT to weld the front diff? If ya don't have ya hubs locked in, and ur not in 4wd....ya wouldn't even know it had a welded diff hey? Then when ya go off road she'll be locked.

because they're an auto lock?

The hubs or the diff?

I'm thinkin of welding the centre in the front of my triton....just thought I'd ask about it here instead of starting a new thread.

[-Scott-]

I'm thinkin of welding the centre in the front of my triton....just thought I'd ask about it here instead of starting a new thread.

Why do you think you want a locked front diff? I've got the air-locker, and rarely need it. When I do need it, it's great - but I turn it off again as soon as I can, because it makes a significant difference to the steering.

Personally, I think a welded front diff would be a pig of a thing to have offroad.

[VHPirie]

I'm thinkin of welding the centre in the front of my triton....just thought I'd ask about it here instead of starting a new thread.

Why do you think you want a locked front diff? I've got the air-locker, and rarely need it. When I do need it, it's great - but I turn it off again as soon as I can, because it makes a significant difference to the steering.

Personally, I think a welded front diff would be a pig of a thing to have offroad.

The other week when we went up through the hills, there were a few spots it had trouble getting up. It was rocky, and coz of the IFS and leafs, it would spin the opposite wheels on the front and back and go nowhere. Figured if we weld the front diff, it will atleast give us some traction when we're in a position like that again.