Transfer case mounting

Post by **muttis3LV6** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:09 am

Sorry if this question sounds tarded but

How close does the end or the gear box and front of transfer case have to be lined up?
How far off centre can it be with out causing virbation?

Post by **dank** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:46 pm

I"m putting a 20v 4age in mine and from all advice i"ve been given probably the most reliable information came from the Berryman Engineering guys who are building my jackshaft, who also do stuff for the racing scene said that getting it as close as possible to perfectly straight will be your best bet.

It's pretty much common sense that getting it close as possible to straight will be the best.

Post by **11_evl** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:57 pm

dank wrote:I"m putting a 20v 4age in mine and from all advice i"ve been given probably the most reliable information came from the Berryman Engineering guys who are building my jackshaft, who also do stuff for the racing scene said that getting it as close as possible to perfectly straight will be your best bet.

It's pretty much common sense that getting it close as possible to straight will be the best.

yes i agree that perfectly straight is ideal BUT have far off perfectly straight can you go b4 it causes a problem??
im guessing ANY sort of misalignment between the 2 will cause an issue.

i thought the rule with drive shafts is keeping it all at the same ANGLE, ie crank bolt to gearbox output shaft, and transfer input/ output....
i think if they are on the same plane than there should be no vibrations

Post by **dank** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:45 pm

yeah that's what I mean by perfectly straight. Maybe rephrasing it to "all in the same plane" would be a more accurate description.

Post by **11_evl** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:28 am

dank wrote:yeah that's what I mean by perfectly straight. Maybe rephrasing it to "all in the same plane" would be a more accurate description.

arr ok!!
i think thats right anyway

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:35 am

I will post some a photo when I've sorted out my wireless connection, but there's big rewards to be gained by running the jackshaft with as little angle as possible.

I've done it with the last 3 cars I've built and we've just got it right on the new car I'm working on.

Basically, I aim for no visible angle. Uni's are really only fine at 3˚ and accetpable up to 5˚. Beyond that, vibration and power loss increase significantly.

The difference in vibration is unbelievable. I can drive down the highway at 100Km/h and the transfer lever is absolutely 100% vibration free, and I'm running stiffer urethane mounts.

Add in that reduced driveline angle equals more power transmitted to the wheels and longer uni life and it's all good.

The jackshaft angle on a stock 1.0 is frightening - it's crazy steep!

Post by **zook4fun** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:08 pm

would you be able to mount up the xfer case and box together so you just have one uni to conect them both?

i'm putting a trimatic behind a piazza in mine and its going to be close.

Post by **GRPABT1** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:53 pm

Wouldn't mounting the case higher increase shaft angles to the diff? And therefore wouldn't this negate the power gains and possible vibrations? Or is it a side angle you are speaking of steve?

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:35 pm

The angle increase in degrees is far less on the rear driveshaft than the jackshaft for the same amount of lift if you get my meaning.

Zook4fun- no, you can't run one uni. Actually, you can, but only if you bolt the transfer and gearbox together - and it will have to be 100% spot on or you're going to have trouble.

Remember, one uni only allows misalignment like this - _/ but you really need to allow for misalignment to allow for the gearbox and the transfer to fight each other. (i.e move in different directions)

I'm not aware of anyone that hasn't had massive vibration problems, short input shaft life, flogged out unis etc with one uni.

Here's a photo of the car we set up with a G16B, trimatic and 1.3 transfer. Jackshaft is a shortened 1.3.

And this isn't the best photo, but here's a G13BB into Jimny 4 speed auto. this is a stock, full length jackshaft. Both of these cars are vibration free at speed.

Steve.

Post by **Mike_1324** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:03 pm

zook4fun wrote:would you be able to mount up the xfer case and box together so you just have one uni to conect them both?

You could use a rubber connector, like Mercedes use rather than universal joints. This would give you the small connector that would also minimise vibrations....

.... Just a thought.

MF

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:34 pm

Only if the transfer and gearbox were solidly mounted together. Both the transfer case and the back of the gearbox are quite softly mounted on a sierra and move a lot relative to each other.

Steve.

Post by **zook4fun** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:45 pm

i was thinking of making a cradle to sit the x fer and rear of the box in so maybe the rubber connector will work.

now just have to find out where the box is. it's been 2 weeks and hasn't showed up yet.

Post by **joeblow** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:41 pm

Post by **zook4fun** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:45 pm

thats what i was thinking, is it bolted to the box?

Post by **joeblow** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:51 pm

yeah, was half finished. picks up on more points. done lots of variations. but one thing to remember-run 2 uni's, and forget rubber joints.

Post by **Mike_1324** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:46 pm

joeblow wrote:yeah, was half finished. picks up on more points. done lots of variations. but one thing to remember-run 2 uni's, and forget rubber joints.

I reckon that if a Mercedes putting out a couple hundred HP can run thru a rubber joint, then a Holden Gemini engine powering an 800kg Zuk wont have any issues. The rubber joint will be more forgiving then a uni, especially if its alligned well, and supported.

MF

Post by **joeblow** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:08 pm

i take it you have tried it then?

Post by **GRPABT1** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:01 pm

Mike_1324 wrote: 800kg Zuk wont have any issues.
MF

Where did you get this 800kg measurement from? Are you driving a MK1 swift?

Post by **joeblow** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:37 pm

GRPABT1 wrote:
Mike_1324 wrote: 800kg Zuk wont have any issues.
MF
Where did you get this 800kg measurement from? Are you driving a MK1 swift?

...i thought a gemini engine was about 800kg....

Post by **zook4fun** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:00 pm

a 2 door gem is about 900 a 4 door is about 1200.

Post by **Mike_1324** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:03 am

joeblow wrote:i take it you have tried it then?

I take it that you have too, and thats why you are able to dismiss it!

Motorcycles (Road) put out much more Hp than a Zuk (ANY Zuk) and they run all their power thru a rubber cush drive..... whether it be in the back wheel, or in the front sprocket.

And yes i do have a tail shaft setup running rubber joints rather than Unis...

MF

Post by **GRPABT1** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:11 am

The thing I see being a (potential, no I havn't tried it) problem is the weight and traction, 200hp pushing a 200kg motorbike with a tiny little contact patch will not create much force before either taking off or smoking the tyre. 100hp pushing 1000kg through 4 fat tyres and you may have alot more force on the driveline on take off.

Post by **joeblow** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:46 pm

Mike_1324 wrote:
joeblow wrote:i take it you have tried it then?
I take it that you have too, and thats why you are able to dismiss it!

Motorcycles (Road) put out much more Hp than a Zuk (ANY Zuk) and they run all their power thru a rubber cush drive..... whether it be in the back wheel, or in the front sprocket.

And yes i do have a tail shaft setup running rubber joints rather than Unis...

MF

so there is one uni and one rubber joint, or two rubber joints on the one shaft?

Post by **zook4fun** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:16 pm

no the idea is one rubber joint or uni with the gearbox out put shaft and the xfer input. mount both up in a cradle so they can't move with out the other moving. so i can mount the box close to the xfer without moving it back or having to move the engine forward heaps.

by the way vs commodors us a rubber joint in the tail shaft. my mate had a vs ute putting about 250 kw at the wheels a few years back, stuffed the diff a few times but never the rubber joint so they will handle the huge power of any engine in a sierra

Post by **joeblow** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:08 pm

will find it won't work too well with just one rubber, or just one uni.

Post by **zook4fun** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:13 pm

why not, is it to hard to line up?

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:16 pm

Yes. one uni/one rubber only allows misalignment in one plane

_/ - like that.

That's not normally how misalignment works - It's normally
_
_/

Which is why you need two unis/rubbers.

Even if you get it very nearly right, a tiny amount of misalignment in the wrong plane (less than 1mm) would be enough to murder unis, cause power loss, wreck transfer bearings etcetcetc.

Steve.

Post by **ca18zook** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:39 pm

I use a rubber joint on my zook behind a ca18 and had no trouble as of yet. My tranfer and box are on the same plane a seams to work good. Only had trouble when i frist set it up. Bent the tranfer bar and didnt relise it and put the 2 out of line. It stuffed the input bearing on the tranfer. But with a custom mounts i have had no trouble from then.
Trent

Post by **zook4fun** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:50 pm

got any pics ca18zook?

Post by **ca18zook** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:47 pm

not at this point of time, but next time im under the zook ill take some

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Transfer case mounting

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