4HE1T or 4HK1-T into 130 Defender

[Nick B]

So here is an interesting one, I need a stack more power want diesel and an isuzu power plant but i don't like the land box, love the LT230 tranny am considering LT85 beefed up BUT.

I would prefer to put a 4HE1T or 4HK1T Isuzu truck engine into my 130 dual cab instead of a 4bd1t, and I think I remember Isuzurover saying he was considering this option. Have you had a chance to play with the idea more, and has anyone done this yet and know what problems I will come up against other than the usual 4bd1t swap probs?

Any help or a point in the right direction would be advantagous as I have been quoted about 6K for all parts including engine, box and tranny etc (let me know if you have the setup cheaper )to do a 4bd1t swap, but I would prefer the smoother running newer engines.

[ISUZUROVER]

I have done a bit more research but not much. The newer generation of engines are all OHC AFAIK - which means they are even taller than a 4bd1. They also have very large bellhousings. So will be a very tight squeeze (if they fit at all).

If I was going to do it I would use an ISUZU 6-speed like John (Bush65) and others have used, and adapt that to the LT230.

When I get my IIA over to the west coast I will be doing an engine conversion, but probably to a 4BD1T, not one of the newer gen engines (mainly due to cost and commonality with my 110).

[Nick B]

so your saying its nothing that cutting can't fix

bigger bell would that mean it isn't a sae #3 style and something else?

The reason I am still willing to look at the newer engine is that there wasn't much difference in price to a 4bd1t because the is so many of the newer engines available now. And I love the fact that they only rattle the truck when cold not disintigrate it

I would sell my 300tdi r380 and lt230 at the drop of a hat if someone sold me a 4bd1t setup ready to chuck in mine at a realistic price I have to start looking for a 0.9 style ratio LT230 as well as I only run 33 and 35 on the road and my lt230 is a 1.4

Thanks heaps for the quick reply mate, you have always been fast on the keys for us.

[ISUZUROVER]

so your saying its nothing that cutting can't fix

bigger bell would that mean it isn't a sae #3 style and something else?

The reason I am still willing to look at the newer engine is that there wasn't much difference in price to a 4bd1t because the is so many of the newer engines available now. And I love the fact that they only rattle the truck when cold not disintigrate it

I would sell my 300tdi r380 and lt230 at the drop of a hat if someone sold me a 4bd1t setup ready to chuck in mine at a realistic price I have to start looking for a 0.9 style ratio LT230 as well as I only run 33 and 35 on the road and my lt230 is a 1.4

Thanks heaps for the quick reply mate, you have always been fast on the keys for us.

EDIT (pressed submit too early)

The 4BD1 is ALMOST an SAE#3, but not quite, according to Bush65 it is clocked and the bolt sizes are different.

The T-case you want is 1.003:1 - these were fitted to quite a few rangies (those with a torque flite?) - but may be a bit tired now. Somewhere like FWD should be able to chase down a set of gears you can swap into yours.

Don't know how much cutting will be needed - you may end up with no leg room!

Have you called around the truck wreckers for 4BD1Ts? Also try those down in sydney and melbourne. To put a truck motor in a landie you have to modify the sump, swap the oil filter for an upward facing one and fit a 12V starter.

To fit a 4BD1/T you have to swap the engine mounts on the chassis and weld on blocks under the bump stops (so the front axle doesn't hit the sump).

Those people who have turbo'd a 4BD1 don't seem to have had any reliability problems. There are only a few differences between the two. I agree that a 4HE1-XS would be a nive option if it can be squeezed in though.

[KiwiBacon]

Another problem I see with the later engines is a rearward pointing starter motor.
Making the bell-housing area even tighter.

The 4BD1 isn't an SAE #3. SAE housings have the same bolt pattern the whole way around. The bottom half of the isuzu pattern is completely different bolt spacing.
I measured up my spare gearbox and drew it up in solidworks, but I haven't put it to a drawing yet.

BTW balancing the crank and con-rods on a 4BD1T makes a massive improvement. 27g were taken off one of my conrods when the previous owner got it done.

[Nick B]

yeah I seriously think a lot of diesel engines of that vintage need balancing, a mate has a tow truck with the 6bd1t and it shook what seemed like 10inches when cold (probably) more like 3 inches but it was insane. when he rebuilt it, it had car like idle tendancies with the balanced gear inside.

I agree on the bolt patern just heard it called that but wasn't sure if it was true.

didn't one of the guys on hear say that they had a starter in the way on one of there isuzu boxed conversions a few years back, I just can't remember what they did to conteract the problem

[Nick B]

I would have such a problem with oil filter being in the road as i use a bypass .01micron oil filter which sits under the drivers seat and is about 16inches long so there is just a small plate and oses to deal with.

well maybe I need to start looking for the bits and transfer/C and ask around at a few more engine importers/wreckers.

I should start writing up a list of bits as well and tick em off as I get them (unless i got lucky and found em all at once but that would be dreaming nothing ever works out that easy)

[KiwiBacon]

There are two types of starters for the 4B series motors. The geared type which will foul your chassis a lot and the direct drive type (suck a lot more amps) which will only foul your chassis a little.

My rangie has a remote filter setup. Basically the stock filter setup has been moved, plated off and connected with hoses. It's okay but could have been done better.

As for gearboxes. I have the Isuzu MSA series box with adaptor plates to the back of the original LT77 gearbox and Lt230. I have documented all the adaptor plates, almost enough for someone to fabricate or machine up the relevant parts.
I'm in the process of swapping the MSA-5P box for an MSA-5G but have some different spline issues to work through.

[Woop]

As for gearboxes. I have the Isuzu MSA series box with adaptor plates to the back of the original LT77 gearbox and Lt230. I have documented all the adaptor plates, almost enough for someone to fabricate or machine up the relevant parts.
I'm in the process of swapping the MSA-5P box for an MSA-5G but have some different spline issues to work through.[/quote]

Did you use a cable gear shift for the MSA 5P? Work ok?

Nick

[KiwiBacon]

Did you use a cable gear shift for the MSA 5P? Work ok?

Nick

No, the guys who did the original install cobbled together some Austin Allegro parts and welded them to the top of the box.
It works, but it's not pretty and it doesn't feel that good. Especially as it's done about 200,000km since the conversion.

I plan to do the cable change, but at a later stage.

[Bush65]

Rover engines are offset to left, and the gear reduction starter on my 4BD1-T fouled the chassis as Dougal has said.

I would expect the larger flywheel housing of the 4HE1-T would be a problem. It may be possible if the engine was moved closer to centre. You would need to measure up the flywheel housing and how far the LT230 could go across to the right. The height may also be a problem.

National Truck Spares currently list a 4BD1-T and 4HE1-T as well as several 5 speeds on the web site.

[ISUZUROVER]

I would have such a problem with oil filter being in the road as i use a bypass .01micron oil filter which sits under the drivers seat and is about 16inches long so there is just a small plate and oses to deal with.

It is a good idea to still use a full-flow filter of some description, even if you have a good bypass filter.

[Mark2]

What about the 4JB1T - fitting kits are readily available from the UK for about 1k landed, and they fit with room to spare. Much smoother than the truck motors. Easy to get second hand here.
Yes, they dont have the same torque as the truck motors, but they wont kill a Rover gearbox and with the addition of an intercooler have plenty of go..............If you need much more than that in a diesel Landy, I'd go out and buy a truck or a new Land Cruiser.....

There was some informative threads with pics on here a few months ago.

[ISUZUROVER]

What about the 4JB1T - fitting kits are readily available from the UK for about 1k landed, and they fit with room to spare. Much smoother than the truck motors. Easy to get second hand here.
Yes, they dont have the same torque as the truck motors, but they wont kill a Rover gearbox and with the addition of an intercooler have plenty of go..............If you need much more than that in a diesel Landy, I'd go out and buy a truck or a new Land Cruiser.....

There was some informative threads with pics on here a few months ago.

The 4JB1T is a great motor - and would be better than a 300Tdi, but Nick has a 130 Dual cab (for which there is no real competitor in the toyota and nissan offerings), and it could use a big torquey motor.

[Mark2]

What about the 4JB1T - fitting kits are readily available from the UK for about 1k landed, and they fit with room to spare. Much smoother than the truck motors. Easy to get second hand here.
Yes, they dont have the same torque as the truck motors, but they wont kill a Rover gearbox and with the addition of an intercooler have plenty of go..............If you need much more than that in a diesel Landy, I'd go out and buy a truck or a new Land Cruiser.....

There was some informative threads with pics on here a few months ago.

The 4JB1T is a great motor - and would be better than a 300Tdi, but Nick has a 130 Dual cab (for which there is no real competitor in the toyota and nissan offerings), and it could use a big torquey motor.

OK - what about a dual cab Isuzu truck then

[KiwiBacon]

OK - what about a dual cab Isuzu truck then

That with a defender body would go down quite nicely.

[Nick B]

he he yes have considered all kinds of things plus land rovers are the only truck that still looks good with dents am measuring up the 4h engines and think the only room issue is the bell housing but after looking at some pics kindly emailed to me it looks at though the isuzu bell for isuzu boxes are easier to fit (that by just looking at them )

In regards to oil filters Yes I do prefer to have a normal one plus the bypass .01micron setup as the bypass filter is that fine it would clog up to quick without the factory setup plus there is all the other factors.

By morning each day I am dicided get a 4bd1t and be done with it but when I rock up at work and see a guy pull up with a New isuzu truck with the 4HK1T in it and change my mind to it

anyone know how hard it is to fiddle with the fuel computer on the 4H engines?

[desertrat]

Im also considering the 4HE1-T. Can get one for $7500 with 5 speed. So whats the verdict. Could you make it fit or what?

[Nick B]

Yes it does fit, haven't put it in mine yet as am considering a lgp power due to stupid fuel prices. have measured it all up an it fit but like the 4BD1's it helps if you have lifted suspension and fit the 2007 onward bonnet. you will also need to fit a custom radiator and thermo fan or mount the radiatior under the tray at the back or under the roof rack all just simple logistics really I'll try and find some photo's on one fitted as someone else has finished there conversion already. and took pics can't remember where I saw it though.

[KiwiBacon]

Has anyone checked clearance for the rear facing starter motor?

[desertrat]

Awsome Nick pics would be great!

What's the MSA 5 speed Box like to shift up and down gears? My lt95 is notchy to the extreme and quick down changes impossible. The isuzu auto an option?

[KiwiBacon]

Awsome Nick pics would be great!

What's the MSA 5 speed Box like to shift up and down gears? My lt95 is notchy to the extreme and quick down changes impossible. The isuzu auto an option?

I have the MSA behind my 4BD1T. It's slower shifting than a car box, but quiet and smooth.

[desertrat]

Anyone looked into fitting isuzu 4 speed auto also?