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steering dampner problem????
steering dampner problem????
Been keeping my eyes open for someone with the same problem, but I hav'nt seen any as yet. I've got a 92 Sierra in rock bog stock form at the moment. I've owned it probably a little over a month now. What would happen is every now and again, the car gets the death shudders driving down a normal road, usually around the 70km/h mark, but it happened very few and far between. Anyway, the other week I went wheeling around Menai, which as anyone that wheels around Sydney knows, is more of a track for modified machines and not stockers. I was pretty impressed as I got it to prado hill with no assistance, albeit a couple of flat tyres and a dented fuel tank later. Anyway, since that day, the car has been getting the death wobbles on a more regular basis. They're really, really bad, and if anyone remembers, it kinda feels like when you're learning to ride a pushbike, and all of a sudden you start wobbling and then go arse over tip. I've been under the car and can't physically see anything wrong. Tailshafts and uni's are ok, and I fugure it can't be that anyway, because the last time it happened, I put my foot on the clutch to disengage the driveline, and it still shook the crap out of me until the car practically slowed down to under 20km/h. I just jacked it up and checked the front end, and everything is ok there too. I was wondering if a crook steering dampener might be causing the problem?? As I mentioned, the car is standard at the moment, and the steering dampener has oil stains around it, indicating it's rooted, but I wouldn't have thought, that it would shudder as bad as it does. When it happens I have to fight to hold onto the steering wheel, and the gearstick thumps against my left knee. Has anyone got any idea's?? The car has got a little over 140 000km's on it and I'm pretty certain the shocks and dampener are still factory original.
Re: steering dampner problem????
Could be a whole bunch or stuff combined or something simple, however it isn't caused by the steering dampenerRockHopper wrote:Been keeping my eyes open for someone with the same problem, but I hav'nt seen any as yet.
I've got a 92 Sierra in rock bog stock form at the moment. I've owned it probably a little over a month now. What would happen is every now and again, the car gets the death shudders driving down a normal road, usually around the 70km/h mark, but it happened very few and far between.
Anyway, the other week I went wheeling around Menai, which as anyone that wheels around Sydney knows, is more of a track for modified machines and not stockers.
I was pretty impressed as I got it to prado hill with no assistance, albeit a couple of flat tyres and a dented fuel tank later. Anyway, since that day, the car has been getting the death wobbles on a more regular basis. They're really, really bad, and if anyone remembers, it kinda feels like when you're learning to ride a pushbike, and all of a sudden you start wobbling and then go arse over tip.
I've been under the car and can't physically see anything wrong. Tailshafts and uni's are ok, and I fugure it can't be that anyway, because the last time it happened, I put my foot on the clutch to disengage the driveline, and it still shook the crap out of me until the car practically slowed down to under 20km/h.
I just jacked it up and checked the front end, and everything is ok there too. I was wondering if a crook steering dampener might be causing the problem??
As I mentioned, the car is standard at the moment, and the steering dampener has oil stains around it, indicating it's rooted, but I wouldn't have thought, that it would shudder as bad as it does. When it happens I have to fight to hold onto the steering wheel, and the gearstick thumps against my left knee. Has anyone got any idea's??
The car has got a little over 140 000km's on it and I'm pretty certain the shocks and dampener are still factory original.
- Leaf bushes
- Buckled rim
- Loose U-Bolts
- Bent steering links
Check these and get a wheel alignment.
Buckled rim it ain't, and steering links are fine. Leaf bushes look fine, but am going to replace them anyway. U bolts I hav'nt checked, but will do so in a couple of days. The wheel alignment is on the cards, as I've got a set of 31x10.5" Mickey T's in the garage ready to go on. Am just waiting on a bodylift and some bits and pieces I ordered off JustCruisin to arrive so I can accomodate the tyres.
In an ideal situation you shouldnt even need a dampener. If yours is totally stuffed replace it for sure. There will still be a underlying issue that the dampener will just mask. Its a bandaid.
From - http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic13 ... th+wobbles
From - http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic13 ... th+wobbles
Do a search for "death AND wobbles" in the suzuki section and you will find HEAPS of information... just sorted this out on my own zook so i understand your painCheck EVERYTHING in the front end.
It seems that it's rarely one thing, but a range of small factors multiplying.
Wheel bearing tension
Knuckle seals (felt and rubber)
Caster
Bushing condition
Kingpin bearing condition
Worn shackles
Ball joint wear
Steering box wear
Often any one of these (or a small amount of wear/out of spec in all of them) may result in the wobbles.
The steering damper won't really help. Rim offset and balance will make it worse, but a clubmember who normally runs unbalanced beadlocked Q78 swampers with 2.5" backspacing, no steering damper and longish shackles had unbrearable death wobbles when he went back to stock tyres (he's never had it with the swampers on it.... go figure)
Apparently worn knuckle seals are a major cause.
Steve.
Thanx for that link. Can't say why I could'nt find it myself. One thing I that I can't comprehend is why would knuckle seals cause the death wobbles. My understanding of seals are that they are there to hold oil and grease in and dirt and water out. So why would worn knuckle seals cause the wobbles??
100% there will be something loose or worn or misaligned causing your problem , such as :
Loose wheel bearings , generally tighten but better to remove and check for wear , if good they should be smooth. when worn they can be scored or grooved where the rollers indent the outer collar. Check and or replace.
Loose wheel nuts , can camber the wheel slightly and cause incorrect steering , tighten and check pads for incorrect wear.
Worn /Loose kingpin bearings , this will cause the ball to chatter and cause negative camber , check , replace , re-shim , tighten.
Ball seals worn or loose , this will cause the ball to be loose as the seals place presure on the ball to cause risistance while keeping in the grease , if you pull the balloff , replace the seals and tighten.
Wheel alignment problem , ie
Castor or camber , toe in , toe out , this will cause the car to do a few things , too much toe out will cause the car to wander on rutts in the road and too much toe in will cause the front end to bind or hop while cornering , have the alignment checked.
Bent diff housings , this will cause the camber to be out and will cause the tyres to wear incorrectly and make the car steer awkwardly , a wheel alignment will tell if the housing is straight.
Bent steering arms or links , this will affect the toe , toe out , generally when bent it will shorten the steeringand you will have too much toe in , check steering links for bends , a indicator is steering wheel mis alignment after 4wding.
Tie rod ends worn or loose , this will allow movement in the steering arms and a liitle movement in each part adds up to a lot of movement , check and replace if needed , have somebody move the steering wheel while you have a look at the tie rod ends.
Pitman arm loose , check that your pitman arm is tight and not allowing movement.
Steering box loose or worn , Check mounting bolts on the chassis are tight , And the steering box is adjusted correctly according to the manual.
Steering column loose or worn , check steering column for movement , this can be in and out , side to side.
Steering rubber joint loose or worn , this allows shock transmission through the steering column , check there is no movement or wear , splitting of rubber.
Steering dampner worn or loose , this will provide sideways shock loading from steering load and if worn or loose will provide no resistance to shock loading , bearing in mind thes things don't last forever and should be replaced at reguliar intervals.
U-bolts loose , worn or stretched , Loose U-bolts will cause the diff to move arround and cause steering inconsistancy , check tighten , replace.
Diff pads rounded and flared , This allows the diff to rock backwards and forward during driving causing your castor to move back and forth , while also stretching your U-bolts , when rounded the front and back top edges will flare , this ia a indicator , replace if round as metal will have fatigue properties.
Springs bushes flogged out and loose , This allows the spring to move sideways in the shackle , causing play in the steering , replace , check , tighten.
Worn or loose shackle's , this will cause movement in the shackle , this allows the shackle to move sideways and it appears as play in the steering wheel , shackles should not move sideways when the steering is applied , check , tighten replace , also corroded pins in the shacles don't fit snugly in the bushes , check , replace.
Bent springs , this will make the car sit incorrectly causing a high side and alow side , also bent springs shorten one spring and cause the car to crab , this affects the steering.
Broken centre spring bolts , this allows the springs to sometimes seperate and allows one or both sides of the diff to float along the spring , sometimes stopping when the diif scews against the springs , this will dramatically affect steering , check , tighten , replace , this is a cheap part , if it looks dodgey replace it.
Worn tyres , tyres which are worn on a angle or unevenly due to poor wheel alignment or bent equipment , will cause eradic steering , check , replace.
Buckled rims , buckled rims make the wheels spin out of balance and with a bad wheel alignment will make the tyres hop and cause steering shimmey.
Offset rims , provide two much leverage to wheell bearings and steering components causing excessive loads.
Oversize tyres , oversize tyres cause the tyres to shimmy while on the rims , and lead to excessive wear and tear on steering components.
Unbalanced tyres , will cause the tyres to vibrate and this might change at different speeds , such as when your wheel shimmy occurs , check tre balance.
Loose worn steering arms , some diffs have bolts on steering arms incorporated into the top or bottom kingpin mount , check and tighten.
These will all affect steering shimmy , you will need to check all of these and eliminate things to correct your problem , I had at least half of these when I had this problem , now it is gone , Cheers Paul.
Loose wheel bearings , generally tighten but better to remove and check for wear , if good they should be smooth. when worn they can be scored or grooved where the rollers indent the outer collar. Check and or replace.
Loose wheel nuts , can camber the wheel slightly and cause incorrect steering , tighten and check pads for incorrect wear.
Worn /Loose kingpin bearings , this will cause the ball to chatter and cause negative camber , check , replace , re-shim , tighten.
Ball seals worn or loose , this will cause the ball to be loose as the seals place presure on the ball to cause risistance while keeping in the grease , if you pull the balloff , replace the seals and tighten.
Wheel alignment problem , ie
Castor or camber , toe in , toe out , this will cause the car to do a few things , too much toe out will cause the car to wander on rutts in the road and too much toe in will cause the front end to bind or hop while cornering , have the alignment checked.
Bent diff housings , this will cause the camber to be out and will cause the tyres to wear incorrectly and make the car steer awkwardly , a wheel alignment will tell if the housing is straight.
Bent steering arms or links , this will affect the toe , toe out , generally when bent it will shorten the steeringand you will have too much toe in , check steering links for bends , a indicator is steering wheel mis alignment after 4wding.
Tie rod ends worn or loose , this will allow movement in the steering arms and a liitle movement in each part adds up to a lot of movement , check and replace if needed , have somebody move the steering wheel while you have a look at the tie rod ends.
Pitman arm loose , check that your pitman arm is tight and not allowing movement.
Steering box loose or worn , Check mounting bolts on the chassis are tight , And the steering box is adjusted correctly according to the manual.
Steering column loose or worn , check steering column for movement , this can be in and out , side to side.
Steering rubber joint loose or worn , this allows shock transmission through the steering column , check there is no movement or wear , splitting of rubber.
Steering dampner worn or loose , this will provide sideways shock loading from steering load and if worn or loose will provide no resistance to shock loading , bearing in mind thes things don't last forever and should be replaced at reguliar intervals.
U-bolts loose , worn or stretched , Loose U-bolts will cause the diff to move arround and cause steering inconsistancy , check tighten , replace.
Diff pads rounded and flared , This allows the diff to rock backwards and forward during driving causing your castor to move back and forth , while also stretching your U-bolts , when rounded the front and back top edges will flare , this ia a indicator , replace if round as metal will have fatigue properties.
Springs bushes flogged out and loose , This allows the spring to move sideways in the shackle , causing play in the steering , replace , check , tighten.
Worn or loose shackle's , this will cause movement in the shackle , this allows the shackle to move sideways and it appears as play in the steering wheel , shackles should not move sideways when the steering is applied , check , tighten replace , also corroded pins in the shacles don't fit snugly in the bushes , check , replace.
Bent springs , this will make the car sit incorrectly causing a high side and alow side , also bent springs shorten one spring and cause the car to crab , this affects the steering.
Broken centre spring bolts , this allows the springs to sometimes seperate and allows one or both sides of the diff to float along the spring , sometimes stopping when the diif scews against the springs , this will dramatically affect steering , check , tighten , replace , this is a cheap part , if it looks dodgey replace it.
Worn tyres , tyres which are worn on a angle or unevenly due to poor wheel alignment or bent equipment , will cause eradic steering , check , replace.
Buckled rims , buckled rims make the wheels spin out of balance and with a bad wheel alignment will make the tyres hop and cause steering shimmey.
Offset rims , provide two much leverage to wheell bearings and steering components causing excessive loads.
Oversize tyres , oversize tyres cause the tyres to shimmy while on the rims , and lead to excessive wear and tear on steering components.
Unbalanced tyres , will cause the tyres to vibrate and this might change at different speeds , such as when your wheel shimmy occurs , check tre balance.
Loose worn steering arms , some diffs have bolts on steering arms incorporated into the top or bottom kingpin mount , check and tighten.
These will all affect steering shimmy , you will need to check all of these and eliminate things to correct your problem , I had at least half of these when I had this problem , now it is gone , Cheers Paul.
BLOWNZUK 1.3 efi,sc14 supercharger,hilux diffs,detroit lockers,stage 4 rockhopper,6 point cage,35 muddies.
The knuckle seals are tight on the knuckles and act as a damper.RockHopper wrote:Thanx for that link. Can't say why I could'nt find it myself. One thing I that I can't comprehend is why would knuckle seals cause the death wobbles. My understanding of seals are that they are there to hold oil and grease in and dirt and water out. So why would worn knuckle seals cause the wobbles??
More so in Coily's than leafy's but same idea.
Jas
it will be the kingpin bearings/ bushes.. jack the zook up grab the tyre from top and bottom and shake it back and forth, you will see it moving. now determine if its moving on the knuckle or if its the wheel bearings loose.
cheers mark
cheers mark
Mud4b/ OPT, Cheap rates, Not cheap work. Search Opt- option offroad on facebook. Call or Sms 0439609525.. Sunshine coast, Eudlo, 4554.
Was my thought also, but it has no play. I even used a pry bar to check for play, but nothing.mud4b wrote:it will be the kingpin bearings/ bushes.. jack the zook up grab the tyre from top and bottom and shake it back and forth, you will see it moving. now determine if its moving on the knuckle or if its the wheel bearings loose.
cheers mark
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