Toyota Surf - Lemon or Not?

[dommie13]

Hey, I'm interested in buying a Toyota Surf, 1990 Model, I have found one I like and I'm getting it checked by RACQ.

I would just like some things cleared up, I have asked a few people and some say that Surfs are complete Lemons and some have said that they are fine. Can anybody with some experience let me know, cheers.

[mule75]

i don't have any personal experience but a good mate of mine had a turbo diesel one and it was an absolute shit heap.

[tuffer_2.4]

www.toyotasurf.asn.au all the info you need

[gypsy]

lemons mate has one and its always in the work shop.shit off road and motor is always up the shit

[macca81]

have one myself, brilliant bus!

comfy onroad, goes fairly well offraod, engine is good(not sure bout the 2.4 tho, have heard it lacks a little in grunt). its the predecessor to the prado. but yep, above forum link is a tops place, ask there they will give all you need to know plus plenty you wont need

[Struth]

Head over to the site mentioned above, you will find they are not shit offroad, they just need lockers, but even without lockers a stocker will go places.

Very easy to modify as well and cheap to modify.
A 2" suspension and a 2" body lift will see 33s fitted under one with more clearence that a cruiser or patrol on 35s.

I have been out with heaps of these and certain Surf diesels have a tendency to overheat, but a modified cooling system will fix this problem.

Cheers

[Chucky]

The heads have a tendancy to crack. Make sure you get a pressure test of the cooling system and compression test as they are know to have the clocks wound back before they get to Aust.
Check th interiour for tell tales and compare to K's. IE seat and steering wheel cond shouldn't be worn out on a car with only 60k on it.
If it has a sun roof check for leaks, pull back the roof lining to check as well. Some also seem to rust around the rear wagon windows.
I have only owned a manual and was very happy with it, after I rebuilt the engine, so make sure the RACQ/NRMA/RACV checks are done right.
They are a very capable 4wd, and simple mod's make it even more so. And I would have no problem buying another one.

[tweak'e]

you have to remember that they are old vechiles now and they are all imports with questionable milage.

2.4 turbo has weak head but easy fix by useing 2.8 head assuming by now it hasn't been done allready.
if you don't like the 2.4 then get the 2.8 or one of the petrol motor versions.

as mentioned toyota surf site has heaps of info.

[dommie13]

Thanks for the replies fellas, I'm not really planning on modifying it or even taking it off-road, It's a 2.8 Turbo Diesel with 187000k's, I don't think it's been wound back, but I've put a deposit on it and I'm getting it checked by RACQ this week, cheers.

[tweak'e]

Thanks for the replies fellas, I'm not really planning on modifying it or even taking it off-road, It's a 2.8 Turbo Diesel with 187000k's, I don't think it's been wound back, but I've put a deposit on it and I'm getting it checked by RACQ this week, cheers.

they never made factory 2.8 turbo diesel. commonly they fit the 2.8 and keep all the 2.4 turbo gear.
there is a couple of things they could have done which may or may not be to good.
check which motor the turbo gear is off, 2lt will have mechanicl pump + boost comp, 2lt-e has electronic pump. it could have 3l pump which is mechanical but no boost comp.

[Hashman]

A '91 Surf should have a 2.4td. The 3 litres only came out late '93. Depending on funds I would try going for a 3.0litre turbo diesel. Much more grunt thant the 2.4

They are a comfy ride and capable of road with a front locker. The front IFS see's the front wheels of the ground a bit so the locker really helps.

Some of the Auto's tend to get a bit hot when towing up hills due to the small torque convertor but can be fixed with a cheap lockup switch amongst other things.

Def checkout the Surf Forum before buying tho. Everyone there is really helpfull on all things Surfs.

Dave

[macca81]

ill just about garuntee that everyone who says they are crap, has never had one...

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

ill just about garuntee that everyone who says they are crap, has never had one...

I'll second that

The 3L (1KZTE) is the Prado motor - very reliable, but heavy on juice.
The Auto behind the 3L is the Landcruiser Auto - no probs there.
The Chassis / suspension is Hilux
The interior is jap - all options

What's not to love?

Paul

[Struth]

ill just about garuntee that everyone who says they are crap, has never had one...

I'll second that

The 3L (1KZTE) is the Prado motor - very reliable, but heavy on juice.
The Auto behind the 3L is the Landcruiser Auto - no probs there.
The Chassis / suspension is Hilux
The interior is jap - all options

What's not to love?

Paul

Add coils up the back and your'e on a winner.

[HG]

Some even have coils up front too

[Struth]

Some even have coils up front too

Some being the operative word

[Yom]

A mate is selling his because he can't afford to run a 4wd anymore.

ALl the work has been done to it, 3L head etc. Its a good truck.

Shame I don't like sitting in them. Floor is too high, roof too low etc. Not a big fan of that type of seating position.

[dazlin]

all surf prior to 1995 are pretty crappy, i got a KZN185 series which is the 1996 model change and they are a shit load better. Just sold mine and bought a cruiser though, well someone has verbally agreed to buy it.

[macca81]

all surf prior to 1995 are pretty crappy, i got a KZN185 series which is the 1996 model change and they are a shit load better. Just sold mine and bought a cruiser though, well someone has verbally agreed to buy it.

ahem... there is nothin wrong with the kzn130 thanks... mechanicaly speaking your intercooler(if it even has one) is the only major difference between yours and mine... and the coils in the ifs...

[claud]

mate if u dont like the seating posi then buy a commodore!

the whole 4wd thing is about big high and mighty....now to yr question the surf is dependent on ayr model the one with little mirrors far up front on the fenders are imported and should be avoided . they are v6 petrol or turbo d.s .my opinion which of course will differ from any modern car owner is that the old classics are the best for reliability,parts and simplicity and ofcourse tuffness. my old girl pictured call her cinnamon girl , has done 400,000 2nd mtr but same box diffs and body. shes bin all rnd oz and sideways too. take a few spares and forget the rest.
now those 4cyl diesels are crap. if u want to waste money , heartache and spend lots of time under her cursing go for it.
doesnt matter hopw good it looks or if yr gonna drive it 50ks a week .a duds a dud.!ya dont go buyin cars from mates to save them a problem either.

[macca81]

the one with little mirrors far up front on the fenders are imported and should be avoided

sorry to say, but EVERY surf in this country is an import...


now those 4cyl diesels are crap. if u want to waste money , heartache and spend lots of time under her cursing go for it.

those 4cyl diesels are bloody great! cost less to run than a 6cyl, has similar performance to a petrol(i can drag off all but suped up V6's, have even beaten the odd V8)

i drive around 500km in an average week, and i struggle to fault it. i also do regular weekends away offroad, and again, i struggle to fault it.


give it a drive, see what ya think, if ya dont like how ya seated then ya can change that easy enuf. but dont discredit them. give the toyotasurf.asn forum a good go, ask lotsa questions on there, and you will get many a reply

[ferrit]

mate if u dont like the seating posi then buy a commodore!

the whole 4wd thing is about big high and mighty....now to yr question the surf is dependent on ayr model the one with little mirrors far up front on the fenders are imported and should be avoided . they are v6 petrol or turbo d.s .my opinion which of course will differ from any modern car owner is that the old classics are the best for reliability,parts and simplicity and ofcourse tuffness. my old girl pictured call her cinnamon girl , has done 400,000 2nd mtr but same box diffs and body. shes bin all rnd oz and sideways too. take a few spares and forget the rest.
now those 4cyl diesels are crap. if u want to waste money , heartache and spend lots of time under her cursing go for it.
doesnt matter hopw good it looks or if yr gonna drive it 50ks a week .a duds a dud.!ya dont go buyin cars from mates to save them a problem either.

Congrats on passing "Talking out of your arse about something you know very little about 101"

Theres no difference between the 1KZ-TE in the KZN130 and KZN185 as there is in the KZN165 Hilux and KZN95 and KZN120 Prados- The KZN185 is a prado with a diferent body.

They are a basic, efficient, powerful little turbo diesel that will blow a 1HZ into the weeds while using 2/3 of the fuel.

[MattF]

Well, I can honestly say I've seen some crap posted in threads before, but some of the opinions in this thread take the biscuit for complete and utter tosh.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Surfs. They are not Lemons or anything like. You simply have to remember that a lot of the Surfs are old vehicles, and you have absolutely no idea how they have been cared for in the past. An owners ineptitude is not the fault of the vehicle. The loudest complainers and detractors always tend to be the people who perform naff all maintenance upon them and then complain like the devil when something goes wrong. (As if that comes as a surprise).

They are very capable in standard trim, and become even more so if you go down the route of modifying them.

Problem wise, get the engine fully serviced and give the coolant system a complete overhaul and you will most likely be safe from self inflicted faults. There's always the possibility of Sod's law kicking in regardless, however.

Plus, if anyone else tells you they are naff, merely tell them to prove it. You won't get a single legitimate demonstration.

[Meh]

I'm far from being an authority on the matter but aren't Surf's like most grey imports, much harder / expensive to insure?

[Gwagensteve]

I'm far from being an authority on the matter but aren't Surf's like most grey imports, much harder / expensive to insure?

I haven't found grey imports to be harder/more expensive to insure.

I had a suzuki cappuccino and my Gwagen would have to be far rarer than any grey import and neither were hard or expensive to insure.

Steve.

[claud]

man this is as bad as arguing over religion,
honestly if some one wants an opinion on a type of car he gets it ,

sure some people have little else to do than sit on here 4 hrs and complain n talk shit, but most opinions come from experience.

thats all this blokes after... the full run , good and bad .what i wrote is what ive heard seen and done, and im a mechanic too. who cares if u disagree ? its pure subjective opinion.

[MattF]

thats all this blokes after... the full run , good and bad .what i wrote is what ive heard seen and done, and im a mechanic too. who cares if u disagree ? its pure subjective opinion.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with citing personal opinion and experience. That is usally far better information than any advertising material. However, (using your own post as the marker for the sake of simplicity), at only one point in your post did you state it was your personal opinion. The rest of your post was more akin to saying that the information you gave is absolute truth.

Any personal experience/opinion should always be visibly noted as being just that. One persons experiences will always differ from the next persons to some degree. Mention a proven accepted fact all you wish. No one can argue with that. However, stating something along the lines of the following:

now those 4cyl diesels are crap. if u want to waste money, heartache and spend lots of time under her cursing go for it.

has no bearing or truth in any way other than in relation to your personal preference and/or experience, hence should be noted as being just that and not general truth. Using it in the context of a sweeping statement, as you did, is just begging for people to become less than subtle and point out the fallacy of your statements.

[RAY185]

thats all this blokes after... the full run , good and bad .what i wrote is what ive heard seen and done, and im a mechanic too. who cares if u disagree ? its pure subjective opinion.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with citing personal opinion and experience. That is usally far better information than any advertising material. However, (using your own post as the marker for the sake of simplicity), at only one point in your post did you state it was your personal opinion. The rest of your post was more akin to saying that the information you gave is absolute truth.

Any personal experience/opinion should always be visibly noted as being just that. One persons experiences will always differ from the next persons to some degree. Mention a proven accepted fact all you wish. No one can argue with that. However, stating something along the lines of the following:

now those 4cyl diesels are crap. if u want to waste money, heartache and spend lots of time under her cursing go for it.

has no bearing or truth in any way other than in relation to your personal preference and/or experience, hence should be noted as being just that and not general truth. Using it in the context of a sweeping statement, as you did, is just begging for people to become less than subtle and point out the fallacy of your statements.

Thats an utter load of bollocks guv

Why is his view the only one that needs a disclaimer? There are many posts in this thread, mainly for the argument. How many of those have a warning saying something like "the views expressed in this post are strictly the opinion of the poster based on experience and preference (and possibly how many beers they've had before logging in) and in no way reflect any remnance of fact and should be taken with a grain of salt".

Most of the threads in here are personal opinion and thats fine, thats what the original poster is expecting. Thats what anyone should expect when they log in to a discussion forum manned by semi-annonymous armchair experts. You sift through the shit until you find some useful information and sometimes, if you're lucky, among the nuggets you'll find a gold one.

[Simo63]

thats all this blokes after... the full run , good and bad .what i wrote is what ive heard seen and done, and im a mechanic too. who cares if u disagree ? its pure subjective opinion.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with citing personal opinion and experience. That is usally far better information than any advertising material. However, (using your own post as the marker for the sake of simplicity), at only one point in your post did you state it was your personal opinion. The rest of your post was more akin to saying that the information you gave is absolute truth.

Any personal experience/opinion should always be visibly noted as being just that. One persons experiences will always differ from the next persons to some degree. Mention a proven accepted fact all you wish. No one can argue with that. However, stating something along the lines of the following:

now those 4cyl diesels are crap. if u want to waste money, heartache and spend lots of time under her cursing go for it.

has no bearing or truth in any way other than in relation to your personal preference and/or experience, hence should be noted as being just that and not general truth. Using it in the context of a sweeping statement, as you did, is just begging for people to become less than subtle and point out the fallacy of your statements.

Thats an utter load of bollocks guv

Why is his view the only one that needs a disclaimer? There are many posts in this thread, mainly for the argument. How many of those have a warning saying something like "the views expressed in this post are strictly the opinion of the poster based on experience and preference (and possibly how many beers they've had before logging in) and in no way reflect any remnance of fact and should be taken with a grain of salt".

Most of the threads in here are personal opinion and thats fine, thats what the original poster is expecting. Thats what anyone should expect when they log in to a discussion forum manned by semi-annonymous armchair experts. You sift through the shit until you find some useful information and sometimes, if you're lucky, among the nuggets you'll find a gold one.

"Thats an utter load of bollocks guv"

Funny but also spot on Ray .... maybe the 'guv should be reminded that in Australia we have a thing call FREE SPEECH . And we don't need to say "In my humble opinion .... blah blah" everytime we express ourselves.

Old matey asking the question was looking for opinions and experiences and that's what he got. A range of opinions and experiences, some good, some bad. He now needs to see if he can actually get anything out of those opinions and experiences ..... some stuff is valid and good and some stuff is probably crap.

[MattF]

However, (using your own post as the marker for the sake of simplicity),

Thats an utter load of bollocks guv

Why is his view the only one that needs a disclaimer?

Did you ever bother reading anything I wrote, especially the partial sentence I have left quoted above, or did your urge to attempt to belittle someone kick in before your common sense did?

As to why personal opinion should be stated as being such, if someone has to ask a question to which they have little or no background knowledge to work from, how can they sift through and sort the wheat from the chaff? That would infer that they do have some basic, (at least), knowledge regarding what they have already asked, which would then negate the need for them to ask, in certain cases. What would be the point of asking in the first place if they knew the general answer to a question such as this?

The only time someone can do as you suggest is when they are trying to clarify or enhance knowledge they already possess. In this thread, however, the O.P would appear to have no prior knowledge upon which to work from.

And we don't need to say "In my humble opinion .... blah blah" everytime we express ourselves.

Regarding that, btw, you are correct. It would be grossly misplaced on occasion if one did. It is also poor form not to mention it when it is relevant, however. We have free speech here too. They never made stupidity a legal requirement over here though.