Ideas for sliders please

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

I want to knock up a set of sliders to replace the factory side steps as they are steadily gettign mangled, and am after ideas. I have an impossible criteria list to meet, but all input is appreciated.

a) Keep it light = alloy is better than steel. Folded steel is better than RHS.

b) I have seen the ARB steps bend up - the chassis is a long way in on the 105 and this puts huge leverage on the mounts. Could I mount off the body? How about off the body mounts? How about off the chassis with rubber blocks to the sill channel for support?

c) I don't need to jack off it - it's to stop sill damage - maybe the factory sill mounts are tough enough for that. Rangie's get away with sliders attached to the sill. Maybe again using combo of sill mounts (factory) and rubber / nylon blocks to the under-sill channel.

d) Ideal would be no "cross" bars. They are just places to get hung up on rocks. I'm trying to come up with a design that has nearly all longitudinal bars. Maybe there is an alloy section that is strong, and I just replace it every few years? Ditto nothing below the chassis rail to hang up on. Anyone seen any intersting alloy extrusions? Painters trestle for example....

e) My missus is short, and my kids young - it still needs to be a sidestep.

f) I'm broke - it needs to be cheap.

g) Be nice if it could double as a support for under sill water tanks.

As you have seen from my other projects, I don't think "more steel is better", so innovative ideas appreciated.

Think this way - your chassis and body are not rigid RHS, they are flexible folded steel structures that react dynamically. Your fuel tank is a lightweight pressed steel shell. Aftermarket kit should be the same - at least for me and my car.

Thanx
Paul

[chimpboy]

You are too pro-alloy, anti-steel my friend.

I would hate to use alloy for sliders, it just doesn't have the right properties and is too easy to gouge. Sliders should slide; alloy sucks for that. Watching really skilled drivers in action, the sliders become a part of their driving style and get used as part of the driving process not just as protection against accidents.

Since you like wacky ideas, how about filling your sills up with some liquid that sets really hard, effectively turning them into solid items without any new external bits to hang up on? I wouldn't do it but you might

[bogged]

Since you like wacky ideas, how about filling your sills up with some liquid that sets really hard, effectively turning them into solid items without any new external bits to hang up on? I wouldn't do it but you might

[Evil 73]

What ever you do with your side steps/sliders, please for everyones sake don't attach them to your vehicle with "POP RIVETS"

Ben

[chimpboy]

Well first question, where do you want to transfer the whack to? If you mount to the body, the body will have to take the hit. If you mount to the chassis, the chassis will.

Then, the next thing is that you need to spread the whack. Effectively you need to stop the whole weight of the vehicle from being concentrated onto a smallish area.

Personally I have often thought that the better approach would be to "armour" the sills, rather than building sliders. eg simply weld (or rivet!) 4mm thick angle steel the full length of the sills, so that any load is spread across the entire length of the sill.

Dunno. I think you should start with a lighter vehicle for the kind of things you're trying to achieve.

[GRPABT1]

Go buy some kitchen cutting boards and counter sink screw them to your sills. serious thats what Mal V uses on the bushrangie

[NutterGQ]

you don't want weight....do you really think your model car would notice?

[Yom]

Aluminium foil from coles or woolies should do the trick I reckon.

A couple of roles will do. Throw out the aluminium foil and just use the centre rolls.

I saw someone try and use toilet paper rolls once but they weren't strong enough. Plus then there was no toilet paper in the house. Was a pretty messy afternoon I was informed.

[chimpboy]

Your fuel tank is a lightweight pressed steel shell.

That's why we bolt heavy steel fuel tank protectors under them There are so many bashed up fuel tanks out there.

*Some* of that flexy, thin, lightweight new OEM stuff is just flexy, thin, and lightweight because it's cheaper to make it that way. Not all, but some. IMHO there is a place for light materials, and a place for heavy ones.

[ISUZUROVER]

a) Keep it light = alloy is better than steel. Folded steel is better than RHS.

b) I have seen the ARB steps bend up - the chassis is a long way in on the 105 and this puts huge leverage on the mounts. Could I mount off the body? How about off the body mounts? How about off the chassis with rubber blocks to the sill channel for support?

c) I don't need to jack off it - it's to stop sill damage - maybe the factory sill mounts are tough enough for that. Rovers get away with sliders attached to the sill. Maybe again using combo of sill mounts (factory) and rubber blocks to the under-sill channel.

d) Ideal would be no "cross" bars. They are just places to get hung up on rocks. I'm trying to come up with a design that has nearly all longitudinal bars. Maybe there is an alloy section that is strong, and I just replace it every few years? Ditto nothing below the chassis rail to hang up on. Anyone seen any intersting alloy extrusions? Painters trestle for example....

e) My missus is short, and my kids young - it still needs to be a sidestep.

f) I'm broke - it needs to be cheap.

g) Be nice if it could double as a support for under sill water tanks.
l

a) you are kidding yourself. IME even 2mm wall RHS will not hold up if you rub up hard against something.

b) mounting off the body is a BAAAD idea, just design it strong enough so it doesn't flex (much)

c) if it is strong enough to jack off it will be strong enough to work as a slider and vice versa. defenders (real rovers) don't have sill mounted sliders.

d) this is the first sensible thing you have said. One of my vehicles has sliders made from seamless pipe 2.5" or 2.75" - not much good as steps though - unless you mounted them further out. I am using 50x120 rhs for the other.

e) see above

f) do I care - if that broke, sell the 4x4 and buy a car.

g) up to you. My sliders double as air tanks.

The other dribble - you need to rethink your ideas. Chassis ande fuel tanks aren't designed to be subjected to side impact loads. Rover chassis and some others are made from 2 "C" sections welded together - about as close to RHS as you can get.

I have seen HEAPS of buggered sidesteps and sliders made from ally and thin-walled steel (exhaust pipe, etc...)

I have DEEP gouges in my STEEL sliders, from rubbing up against rocks.

[MART]

I vote pool noodles , no seriously get some 3mm steel bent into a profile to incorporate yor step and also slider , then put some ally cheque on top for grip , Cheers Paul.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Go buy some kitchen cutting boards and counter sink screw them to your sills. serious thats what Mal V uses on the bushrangie :roll:

Now that is a very interesting idea - nylon under the sill. It's slippery, tough as, and could be profiled to the sill.

A 100x50mm nylon solid extrusion would work.

Attachment could be hard.
Need holes for the sill drains
And no sidestep.

Hmm - that one I like.

Paul

[GRPABT1]

I wasn't kidding about the bushrangie using it, alot of comp guys do. But I was kidding about the cutting boards. And you still need something solid to mount the nylon to, ie this thing that was discovered yonks ago called STEEL!

[fester2au]

You could try some of that fancy HDPTFE etc type of nylon or poly or whatever designation it actually comes under these days. Like they use for body blocks. We got some softer stuff for handles the other day for sterilisers that could withstand 130 degrees and was 130mm wide and 12mm thick in a length about 1200 long. So you might be able to get longer lengths. We also got a large block of some black stuff recently to get someone to machine into a die for our pipe bender so we could bend box section. It was so hard when we hit it with the ball pien it didn't even leave a mark but put a tiny flat spot on the ball of the hammer.

Ig you got a suitable thickness it might still mould around the sills and could be rivetted with large head countersunk rivets. (I still don't like this idea personally)

Or how about some structural grade ally tube, recently played with some that was about 65/70mm diameter and 8mm wall thickness. Mind you be interesting to weigh it up length for length against say 3/4mm steel. Tressle extrusion or step extrusion etc is all thin wall. Don't recall seeing any thick wall extrusion in the catalogues. Maybe structural ally channel. Something like 120 x 80 with 8mm walls etc.

What about 3mm steel sheet folded into a suitable profile and punched along the top edge with that safety tread type of pattern, like truck steps. You know the punched hole that is then reverse punched into a die to raise the edge a little or give a countersunk look form which ever side you want to use. This is one of my project ideas that or the structural ally tube but then I am not looking at full on hard core rock sliders. My truck came without the original steps and their not worth putting on and I want something different (that doesn't need to be bombproof)

At the end of the day you could have any manner of pretty designs outboard of the sills for the look, assuming you don't need rock crawling protection that far out. As long as you have something solid directly under the sill and of course the easiest and most proven design is the mount back off the chassis.

I too dislike the simple tubes back to chassis for the reasons of hangups and if I were making a set no matter the step style I think you should have a solid longitudinal bar directly under the sill with chassis mounts inboard of this. Outboard you could then have any number of step designs as I've mentioned.

The cruiser step mounts as per original have absolutely no strength whatsoever so forget them. Maybe you could run a box section along the inside of the sills bolted to all the original step mounting holes, sleeve all the bolt holes through the box section and hang (weld) a slider/step off this if you want a body mount design. BUT I WOULD NOT.

Oh and don't stick the ally checkplate sheet on top of the steel slider, nothing looks worse. The ally checkplate infill has been done to death and rarely very neatly.

[Gwagensteve]

As per bogged - fill the sills with expanding foam and double them with 2mm or so of steel, rolled to suit the profile.

Anything else is adding junk for the sake of it.

Or just live with the panel damage.

Steve.

[Harrow]

Dont waste you time just make tube STEEL sliders attach them to your chassie not your body the 105s are a tough built car but the body wont hold up. i have sliders on my 105 and they are awesome never been hooked up on them cause they slllliiiidddddde hence the name sliders and i have 4 mounts going to my chassie to my sliders. alloy is sh*t dont bother and if you do dont put water in there 1 cause after your 1st trip you will have holes in it and 2 cause if its not 100% full you will hear the water sloshing back and forth as u brake and acelarate it will drive you nuts!!!!!

[98lux]

The sliders on my 105 series

[cj]

I've had sliders attached to the body that were shaped to the sill profile. They kept all my clearance bar for a few mm, couldn't get hooked up on anything and coped with dropping onto rocks and sliding along rocks but they need to be steel imho. Very

[atari4x4]

I've had sliders attached to the body that were shaped to the sill profile. They kept all my clearance bar for a few mm, couldn't get hooked up on anything and coped with dropping onto rocks and sliding along rocks but they need to be steel imho. Very

Hey CJ,
I like the sound of your sliders, were these on a Vit?

[cj]

Yes, a lwb.

[little rusty]

my disco has ARB chassis mounted sliders/steps... the chassis support bars bend below the sill and are as close the the tyres as possible to aviod 'hanging up'. And they dont hang up on anything. They do bend up on jacking however no plastic deformation... have got a bend in the passenger side though due to a hard wack. sill still good and doors open.

I am thinking of making my own and would basically use a similar design but with a longitudinal tube under the sill between the support bars and plate (as above) to enhance the 'slide' part of the title.

sacrificing 40mm of clearance under the sill (still higher than the bottom of chassis rail and transmission brake) is a better proposition than damaged panels. Its only large rocks that the longitudinal bar wont move out the way anyway and thats want you want to protect from - mud, sand, logs, small boulders will probably move when the lider hits it...

my 5c worth...

[atari4x4]

have you got any photos, I like the sound of you sliders.

[WelchyGQ]

why not cut the sill off the car with a grinder leaving the top part for the door to seal onto. then weld in some box section. Then for the step weld some mandrel pipe bends ($2) and a bit of pipe off that new box section?

Welchy

[cj]

have you got any photos, I like the sound of you sliders.

PM me your email and I'll send them to you.

[98lux]

why not cut the sill off the car with a grinder leaving the top part for the door to seal onto. then weld in some box section. Then for the step weld some mandrel pipe bends ($2) and a bit of pipe off that new box section?

Welchy

Like this one, about half way down the page
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic144567.php

[GRPABT1]

I've had sliders attached to the body that were shaped to the sill profile. They kept all my clearance bar for a few mm, couldn't get hooked up on anything and coped with dropping onto rocks and sliding along rocks but they need to be steel imho. Very

Hey CJ,
I like the sound of your sliders, were these on a Vit?

A vitara ways a hell of alot less than a 105 series cruiser and hence would not need as hardcore sliders.

[WelchyGQ]

cutting the sills seems to work for the comp GQs i have seen it done to.

doing mine over the weekend

welchy

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

cutting the sills seems to work for the comp GQs i have seen it done to.

doing mine over the weekend

welchy

Cut sills make a lot of sense.
I reckon they would be a magnet for rust though.

And a bit of a bold step for a tourer :)

Paul

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

The sliders on my 105 series

Are there any angle braces on those bars coming out from the chassis?
I have considered this design, and I like the flat skid plate, but others I have seen have bent up when the car dropped heavily onto them (ARB SII Disco). Couldn't open the passenger door.

It's a long arm = lots of leverage and easier bending.

If I did this I would be putting 4 nylon or poly blocks between the step and the body, so if it started to come up - the sill would assist in supporting the load.

The bolts dont hang up too much? (then again - the rear lower control arm mounts hangs right down and hangs me up often too - used my bodgy winch twice for that and once for hung up on the diff centre.).

Paul

[fester2au]

Expanding foam in your sills is a good idea because the sills will rust out saving you the hassle of cutting them out.

don't put expanding foam in your sill it will just be a magnet to attract and trap water.