Test vehicle required.

[Dzltec]

We are looking for an 02 onwards Gu factory turbo patrol, ute and wagon. We are wanting to try a new ball bearing turbo to use as a factory upgrade.

The vehicles should be in stock form, ie diffs, tyres, wheels, factory intercooled. You may have done an exhaust, boost and fuel upgrade or hiflowed turbo upgrade and want more. Well thats what we are looking for.

We need a ute with 4.11:1 diffs, factory wheels and tyres. We need a wagon with 3.9:1 diffs and as above.

What will you get? A vehicle that has the potential to have 130rwkw, very good exhaust temps, better low down torque. The costs will be the cost of parts, my labour at 1/2 price. We will need it for 3-5 days.

We have already used Garrett bb turbos, we now have another unit that is a t3 flange and needs no water connections.

Dyno graphs have been posted for the Garrett unit to give an idea.

Anyone that is serious please contact me.


Thanks

Andy

[benhl]

Mate - i'd be keen to offer my services however i'm in Brisbane. Can you send me some more info on these turbo units however as i think this will be the next mod with large IC. Was looking at Garret but interested in something a bit different, and less lines = easier = happy!

Already got Motsons Stage II turbo mods (internals on factory unit), 3" dump/exhaust, dyno tune with upped fuel, 14 psi, good EGT's = 130 rwkw on 35's and std 3.9 diffs and 992Nm...

any advice/info apprecieted - Cheers

[Brendan-s]

Paying for parts is fair, but you want someone's car for R&D and you want them to pay any amount of labour?

The other problem I see is not a lot of people on here would have put work into their turbo and engine but kept it stock height and on standard rubber.

[WICKED]

Paying for parts is fair, but you want someone's car for R&D and you want them to pay any amount of labour?

I thought it was just me! Yer seams a bit rich to me! The bloke stands to make a lot of money of this. If I had a GU I'd hire it too him. Lol

[zagan]

What will you get? A vehicle that has the potential to have 130rwkw, very good exhaust temps, better low down torque. The costs will be the cost of parts, my labour at 1/2 price. We will need it for 3-5 days.

Thanks

Andy

Should be done completely for free, and the parts given to the owner of the R&D 4wd for free as well, after all you could stuff up the install and/or do damage to it while driving it or should I say testing it.

Then make your cash off the customers who want it.

That's the only way I've seen other companies do R&D work.

nothing against you though.

[Ben]

Paying for parts is fair, but you want someone's car for R&D and you want them to pay any amount of labour?

I thought it was just me! Yer seams a bit rich to me!

Nup, not just you, I agree.

Someone's expected to be carless for 5 days and you want them to pay you for 5 days labour so you profit from it?

I know Nissan owners are a bit slow but IMHO that's a bit rich!

[nicbeer]

Parts at cost $$ i can understand unless manufacture backed up (cheaper free stuff)

but labor i can see where people are coming from for it to be free or substidised.

re the other work done. if all they have is springs and bigger tyres done then drop it down for the r&d side of things

[danaz]

By the sound of Andy's offer he is willing to do it for little or no profit, which sounds like a good deal to me.

[bogged]

My car goes in on monday

I get charged no labour cost since I'm first and didnt complain *


And andy is a great bloke, good lookin, handy with a spanner, knows his stuff, drives a lovely GQ shorty, Auto too... *suck grovel*






























* That would be nice lol!!!!
more free upgrades to ya site too

[Ben]

Parts at cost $$ i can understand unless manufacture backed up (cheaper free stuff)

He can write the costs of the parts off on tax, and at the end of the day he's trying to turn a profit from those parts.

[Dzltec]

Some interesting comments, wasn't really prepared for the negative side of things.

First of, the job would carry a 12mths, 20,000km warranty. We are a registered business, dealing only in diesel. We also carry a full business insurance, so I would think that gives people a little piece of mind.

The time frame gives me the ability to do things right the first time, no pressure, making sure it all works as predicted. It doesn't matter if the vehicle is raised or externally accessorised, I can put standard wheels and tyres on to testif need be. It was just trying to get baseline testing for comparisons.

Its an open forum, everyone is entitled to say what they like.

I think it is fare on pricing, my opinion.



Andy

[Guy]

Some interesting comments, wasn't really prepared for the negative side of things.

First of, the job would carry a 12mths, 20,000km warranty. We are a registered business, dealing only in diesel. We also carry a full business insurance, so I would think that gives people a little piece of mind.

The time frame gives me the ability to do things right the first time, no pressure, making sure it all works as predicted. It doesn't matter if the vehicle is raised or externally accessorised, I can put standard wheels and tyres on to testif need be. It was just trying to get baseline testing for comparisons.

Its an open forum, everyone is entitled to say what they like.

I think it is fare on pricing, my opinion.



Andy

But now you have to work with Bruce ...

[bogged]

Andy could charge full retail and not tell you your a guinea pig until after they fuck up everything like some other Cookie I can name thats worked on my fuckin truck.

Simple... if you wanna give it a go, give him a call and discuss it...

If you have a problem with his offer but are still interested give him a call and discuss it... you never know what he will say. He isnt Kevin the jetsetter Rudd you realise.

If you wanna sit back and wait for results then pay full retail, all the better.

Community Service Announcement
Authorised and Spoken by FC Bogged
(c) 2008

[chunks]

I would consider offering my 06 GU coil cab as its an upgrade i want to do anyway, but being in Canberra makes it a bit hard

[bogged]

I would consider offering my 06 GU coil cab as its an upgrade i want to do anyway, but being in Canberra makes it a bit hard

cheap bus ride home

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

Paying for parts is fair, but you want someone's car for R&D and you want them to pay any amount of labour?

I thought it was just me! Yer seams a bit rich to me!

Nup, not just you, I agree.

Someone's expected to be carless for 5 days and you want them to pay you for 5 days labour so you profit from it?

I know Nissan owners are a bit slow but IMHO that's a bit rich!

make room on the band wagon.

ive had vehicles used to test stuff on( shocks, drive train parts)
and it hasnt cost me a cent.

[Guy]

Paying for parts is fair, but you want someone's car for R&D and you want them to pay any amount of labour?

I thought it was just me! Yer seams a bit rich to me!

Nup, not just you, I agree.

Someone's expected to be carless for 5 days and you want them to pay you for 5 days labour so you profit from it?

I know Nissan owners are a bit slow but IMHO that's a bit rich!

make room on the band wagon.

ive had vehicles used to test stuff on( shocks, drive train parts)
and it hasnt cost me a cent.

Guys, this is a volunteer thing .. no-one is being conscripted.

[Struth]

I reckon if the business offering this deal was prepared to warrant the test vehicles entire engine should something go wrong,
Then paying for parts is a fairish deal, you are after all allowing the business to put an untried turbo onto a very expensive engine.

As for paying for labor, that's just a tad greedy.

No one is being forced into this, but people are being asked to hand over their entire vehicle.

Cheers

[bogged]

No one is being forced into this, but people are being asked to hand over their entire vehicle.

Cheers

bit easier than taking the engine out and handing just that over.

[Guy]

I reckon if the business offering this deal was prepared to warrant the test vehicles entire engine should something go wrong,
Then paying for parts is a fairish deal, you are after all allowing the business to put an untried turbo onto a very expensive engine.

As for paying for labor, that's just a tad greedy.

No one is being forced into this, but people are being asked to hand over their entire vehicle.

Cheers

DZLtech have an excellent reputation for 1st class work.. and are well aware the way public forums work.
Many place's would simply market the kit and let you sort out any "issues" at your cost. .. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard " well I have never had that happen before" and you get to wear the expense of fixing it.

I cant belive the response that this has had.
He stated up front what he was after.
He stated up front the conditions .. and people are whinging about it.

By the sound of it he found a test mule.

[hienuf]

Some of you guy's are a bunch of tightarse's.
Paying cost price for parts.
Half price labour.

I don't see what the complaining is about.

[Struth]

I reckon if the business offering this deal was prepared to warrant the test vehicles entire engine should something go wrong,
Then paying for parts is a fairish deal, you are after all allowing the business to put an untried turbo onto a very expensive engine.

As for paying for labor, that's just a tad greedy.

No one is being forced into this, but people are being asked to hand over their entire vehicle.

Cheers

DZLtech have an excellent reputation for 1st class work.. and are well aware the way public forums work.
Many place's would simply market the kit and let you sort out any "issues" at your cost. .. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard " well I have never had that happen before" and you get to wear the expense of fixing it.

I cant belive the response that this has had.
He stated up front what he was after.
He stated up front the conditions .. and people are whinging about it.

By the sound of it he found a test mule.

I gather from those supporting this company that it is to be trusted, and I don't doubt that.
But if I did not know the company personally I would require a written guaruntee that my vehicle will be returned as healthy as it left, not simply a reccomendation from some unknown forum members.

I have expressed my opinion on the costs asked for, the business in question could take mine and others comments on board as a lesson in how to approach forums with mixed opinions from a wide cross section of the community.

Personally I would not pay to have my vehicle used as a guinea pig, but others would and I wish the best of luck to them and the business doing the R&D.

For those who "Can't beleive" the attitude of some us,

Why not, is it because it simply differs from yours

I don't think our attitudes are in any way outrageous nor our comments particularly offensive.

Cheers

[+dj_hansen+]

In DZLTEC's defence, he could just give it to the next person who turns up on his door for a tune and send them away with a cheeaaap massive power upgrade, but he has come here and offered it to us out of good faith.

If i was in the market or thinking of getting a tune done, id be there straight away, especially considering what your getting out of it!

On the other hand, i spose it all depends on the price at the end of the day Andy, an estimate on price would probably help your situation because that is probably the number 1 question people ask, "what power, whats involved and how much..."

[MICK77]

[quote="+dj_hansen+"]In DZLTEC's defence, he could just give it to the next person who turns up on his door for a tune and send them away with a cheeaaap massive power upgrade, but he has come here and offered it to us out of good faith.

If i was in the market or thinking of getting a tune done, id be there straight away, especially considering what your getting out of it!

On the other hand, i spose it all depends on the price at the end of the day Andy, an estimate on price would probably help your situation because that is probably the number 1 question people ask, "what power, whats involved and how much..."[/quote]

This is a great suggestion. Tell people exactly what they get for their money.

[PGS 4WD]

I think the general public must have little idea as to he costs involved in running a small automotive business. Andy's offer is a good one, one at which he will make no money but hopefully not go backwards, it may cover his costs. I have no doubt whoever gets it done will be very happy as we do similar things to Andy and the results are always pleasing.
My GU cost me over 12k to build an engine, custom manifolds, roller turbo, cooler, pump and all that jazz for 185 rwkW. And that is of course with no labour other than the machining costs.
A reasonable amount needs to be charged to cover warranty and make a profit after paying the bills and wages. There is no warranty if the business isn't there to warrant the work 3 months later.
There are shortcuts to making power, they are usually reliability, I have many customers who have had things done cheaper to save money only to then have to pay again to get it repaired at a greater cost than doing it once right the first time.

Cheers

Joel

[bad_religion_au]

Some of you guy's are a bunch of tightarse's.
Paying cost price for parts.
Half price labour.

I don't see what the complaining is about.

Half price labour. <<<< that is the problem many of us have... i can swallow the cost of parts (although if it were a BIG business, i would expect the parts thrown in)

it is not a charity, it is a business.

test mules get put through rigors some of us wouldn't put our own rigs through. get the mixture/tuning/ whatever wrong during the initial start up and it can potentially shorten the life of the engine. these things are less of a guess on a known product...

at the end of the day, this business is trying to find a new way to make money. the labor in fitting the kit to the test mules should be written off as part of the R&D expenses, as it is in pretty much any industry.

Not covered by those who are going without their car for 5 days, so the company can profit from a finished product to offer the public...

PGS, there is no argument over the quality of the work done by the company, nor that quality workmanship is worth paying for. the issue rests with PAYING for the privelage of being a guiney pig

[hienuf]

Some of you guy's are a bunch of tightarse's.
Paying cost price for parts.
Half price labour.

I don't see what the complaining is about.

Half price labour. <<<< that is the problem many of us have... i can swallow the cost of parts (although if it were a BIG business, i would expect the parts thrown in)

it is not a charity, it is a business.

test mules get put through rigors some of us wouldn't put our own rigs through. get the mixture/tuning/ whatever wrong during the initial start up and it can potentially shorten the life of the engine. these things are less of a guess on a known product...

at the end of the day, this business is trying to find a new way to make money. the labor in fitting the kit to the test mules should be written off as part of the R&D expenses, as it is in pretty much any industry.

Not covered by those who are going without their car for 5 days, so the company can profit from a finished product to offer the public...

PGS, there is no argument over the quality of the work done by the company, nor that quality workmanship is worth paying for. the issue rests with PAYING for the privelage of being a guiney pig

You are kidding me.
It'a b/b turbo upgrade and tuning......not a engine rebuild.

wtf

[Ben]

I think the general public must have little idea as to he costs involved in running a small automotive business.

Every business has costs. It's a business. Hell charities these days don't expect things for free anymore, let alone when the end goal is to make money for themselves.

[PGS 4WD]

We do custom work every day, we obviously can't work at 1/2 price just because we haven't done that exact job before. Would you expect a house builder to build a house at 1/2 price labour just because you changed the floor plan from the last 20 he built?
In reality we make less money on such work as we already often have to discount of rates to get the job.
Automotive parts suppliers offer very poor warranties, it is the fitter of the parts that wears most issues. The liability is much greater with custom work. Particularly with performance upgrades where the power of an engine may be double or triple that of stock and pre existing production parts are more highly stressed.
For example I've fitted camshafts that have failed, had them tested and proven the material hardness was not satisfactory and still have to wear the labour of the repair, all we get in most instances is a replacement part, not the days labour required to fit it or the gaskets and oils and so on.

Cheers

Joel

[zagan]

We do custom work every day, we obviously can't work at 1/2 price just because we haven't done that exact job before. Would you expect a house builder to build a house at 1/2 price labour just because you changed the floor plan from the last 20 he built?
In reality we make less money on such work as we already often have to discount of rates to get the job.
Automotive parts suppliers offer very poor warranties, it is the fitter of the parts that wears most issues. The liability is much greater with custom work. Particularly with performance upgrades where the power of an engine may be double or triple that of stock and pre existing production parts are more highly stressed.
For example I've fitted camshafts that have failed, had them tested and proven the material hardness was not satisfactory and still have to wear the labour of the repair, all we get in most instances is a replacement part, not the days labour required to fit it or the gaskets and oils and so on.

Cheers

Joel

Hate to break it to you but it's not custom work, you'd charge custom work at full price or even at a higher rate than normal work as someone would expect as it's all done as a once off item.

R&D work is normally done at cost, because the company is looking to work out what the complete costs and parts will be and then charge everyone else those costs.

Basically this guy is wanting to do custom work on a 4wd but have the owner of the test 4WD basically pay out his R&D costs for him, that's the real crux of the problem.

I'll put it this way... you don't expect the diesel chip companies or the diesel/gas companies to charge people for R&D work done on their engines, they get it all done for free and keep the end result as the test unit is never quite the final product or 100% the same as the final product ends up being.

all up the R&D costs could be $3,000 for parts and $1,000 for the labour so you get a cut of $500 for you letting the guy rip out & dump in stuff and dyno your 4wd to his hearts content for X amount of days at the owners cost.

after all he'd be doing at least.
pipe work
turbo
then jigging the motor to take a turbo

then as extras.
intercooler
then if it's a water/air intercooler
you'd have to add water pumps, radiator/fans.

after all the AXT turbo kits are around $2-3,000+ just in parts.

Then your motor would be dyno'd a heap of times to get a tune for the turbo and if it doesn't work out it's back to square 1 again.

Problems people could get down the track is over heating, poor performance ever after the testing, something breaks a year+ later.

I have no problems with the guy I think he'd probably do a good job and I've never been there at all, but at the end of the day all you have protecting the owner is business insurance which might not cover your 4wd for R&D work nor will it cover you once it's back in your hands.


When your asking for custom work then your more than happy to pay full price but also agree that if anything goes wrong well you'd be up for some extra cash to fix it to.

If this goes wrong for the guy, the owner is expecting it to be fixed 100% and probably for free as well, they might not be expecting to have to pay for more parts or what ever.

also if the guy pushes a piston out the side of the motor what happens then, you get a 2nd hand motor or a new one?

lots of risk in R&D work that's why it's mainly dead cash if you want to go down that road but hopefully it'll pay off.

I know some of this might be over the top but I think some people are thinking this will be super cheap after all your getting a turbo kit installed at half labour costs and that's it really but have miss judged what the real risks or costs could be.