Xtreme Production Winch Challenge (New Name)

[FESTA]

when and where are you looking to hold the first round, and what type of vehicle are you going to run in it festa? a secret stocko weapon?

petty GQ wagon.............until i kill it

[Draven]

when and where are you looking to hold the first round, and what type of vehicle are you going to run in it festa? a secret stocko weapon?

petty GQ wagon.............until i kill it

We will just have to build it tough, so you cant kill it

Im more worried about the Navi, hehehe

[FESTA]

when and where are you looking to hold the first round, and what type of vehicle are you going to run in it festa? a secret stocko weapon?

petty GQ wagon.............until i kill it

We will just have to build it tough, so you cant kill it

Im more worried about the Navi, hehehe

AT LEAST THE NEXT GQ IS ALREADY CUT DOWN

[Unidriveshafts]

How bout a dirty old cut down 100 series? Surely thers 1 lyin round sumwhere cheap rustin away!!!Steve.

[FESTA]

How bout a dirty old cut down 100 series? Surely thers 1 lyin round sumwhere cheap rustin away!!!Steve.

wanna buy it it is real cheap

[Unidriveshafts]

Couldn't give away that old horse & cart!!

[rocketman]

hey festa boyley here i am in i got that old winch bar of yours on the other day had to use a forklift to lift it on there wont be a tree left with that big jigger on the front of the 80

[Mosko111]

Oh thats no good why a pootrol? this event shouold be heaps fun though with it being a lot cheaper to run in and since the cars cheaper then the care factor will be out the window haha

[XTREME MMM]

Below is the edited post regards roll cages:-


Rollcages:-
As it becomes to hard to have a mine spec cage in a ute and to make it fair on everyone. You now require a full internal cage starting at the "A" Pillar. The cage will be built to a minumum of XWC specs (available at www.xtreme4x4sport.com.au ) Afterall this is for your own safety.

The tyre size will be govened by what you are allowed on your vehicle:-

You will be allowed to increase your tyre size by 15mm over the largest optioned tyre for that model range of vehicle. There will be a 3mm tolerance given. This will be a measured size at 24PSI

Cheers
David

[FESTA]

hey festa boyley here i am in i got that old winch bar of yours on the other day had to use a forklift to lift it on there wont be a tree left with that big jigger on the front of the 80

you can take out officials / cars the works with that sucker ..........WATCH OUT METCALF

[Draven]

AT LEAST THE NEXT GQ IS ALREADY CUT DOWN

NOOOOOOOOOO

[gut42]

Bout time your saw the light Festa and drove a real 4B!!!

luv rumboy.

[uninformed]

REGARDING INTERNAL CAGES: this is a quote from the rover section here on outerlimits4x4:

"Assuming these are CCDA events, has anyone raised this with the CCDA ?

Land Rover Defenders really aren't set up to have a fully internal cage, truck cab versions especially so. CCDA regs are pretty generic and little thought seems to have been given to the impact of some parts of the regulations on vehicles, like the Defender, where the body doesn't supply any part of the safety structure of the vehicle.

In the UK, Europe and USA either fully external or external front/internal rear designs are used for Defenders simply because it is the best and strongest way to fit a roll cage to the vehicle. There is no point in linking the cage to the body because it has no structural integrity, the cage needs to be linked to the chassis and a cage designed for a monocoque vehicle is neither applicable or particularly safe in a Defender.

I see no justification for insistance on an internal cage on a vehicle where the body work above the "waist" of the vehicle can be unbolted and removed as desired. Land Rover themselves used external front hoops when they developed their own roll cages for Defenders in partnership with Safety Devices. Defenders used on the Camel Trophy all had external front cage hoops even though the Discoveries, Range Rovers and Freelanders all had fully internal cages.

Challenge the rules, don't compromise your vehicle or it's safety trying to fit a cage design that was intended for a saloon car derivative. i was told I'd need an internal cage for the OBC too btw, my external cage does now have a new CCDA logbook sticker on it. There are some close ups of my cage in the youtube vids in my sig, especially the 2nd one."



my point is, if this is an entry level event, surely it wont be full on hardcore. surley an external cage, that is well built and properly designed is strong and safe enough, and i would bet would be cheaper to make simply because of the labour involved.

if you care to look at a defender ute, there is NO room in them for a internal cage without major surgery. plus the way there chassis are designed makes them perfect fo a external cage that will be very strong. thats why they have been using exos on all the camel trophy vehicles.

cheers, Serg

[HeathGQ]

Uniformed.... the rules are set by MMM... full stop. Not CCDA.

[uninformed]

yep, just making a point about how although its entry level, it wont be entry level on a wallet.

serg

[Lepar]

yep, just making a point about how although its entry level, it wont be entry level on a wallet.

serg

SERG, do a bit of homework and shop around and i am sure that you will find it is relativley cheap to set up a car for this type of event!
This event is designed for the budget concious people who would like to have a go at a winch challenge!

Maybe everyone should stop whinging and b&$ching about CCDA and Fat wallet's E.T.C. and Provide information for people who are genuinely interested in this event on this thread or go and find yourself another thread to B&#ch on.
( my 2 cent's )

Cheer's Lepar.

[Lepar]

when and where are you looking to hold the first round, and what type of vehicle are you going to run in it festa? a secret stocko weapon?

petty GQ wagon.............until i kill it

Petty being the optimal word here Festa,
I don't see The Petty GQ making it home from the first event with you behind the bloody wheel.........TRADER!!!!!
I thought that you had some pride Festa???
Guess i was mistaken huh ,
Bloody nissan convert!

Lepar.

P.S. Go tha 80! R.I.P. the red beast!

[uninformed]

yep, just making a point about how although its entry level, it wont be entry level on a wallet.

serg

SERG, do a bit of homework and shop around and i am sure that you will find it is relativley cheap to set up a car for this type of event!
This event is designed for the budget concious people who would like to have a go at a winch challenge!

Maybe everyone should stop whinging and b&$ching about CCDA and Fat wallet's E.T.C. and Provide information for people who are genuinely interested in this event on this thread or go and find yourself another thread to B&#ch on.
( my 2 cent's )

Cheer's Lepar.

i already have a 110 defender ute, low range gears(transfer case), rear difflock, pto hyd winch....

so as most of that wont comply. i would have to start over. and then try fitting a internal cage in a def ute...

so i guess while i didnt follow the path that alot of others have, ie nissan or toyo, elec winch... it rules me out. i dont have the cash to go buy a rig to build or rebuild mine.

more to the point, why should i???? i cant see the difference between lower diff gears and lower transfer gears. my winch is good, but not upto the speed the comp elec are running. a full exo cage could be built strong and safe and for less than an internal....

i would have thought that an entry level event would cater for all makes and models as long as they were road registered and safe.

Serg

[rockcrawler31]

I have a question/suggestion

My truck sits squarely in between most classes currently available. It's too modified to be a beginners vehicle, and i can see how new competitors with stockish cars would be upset competing against it. But there's no way in hell is it going to be competitive against the higher classes/outlaw rigs. Further more, me as the driver am totally new to competitions. zero experience, bugger all skill. zip.

All i want to do is experience a competition atmosphere without the pressure of having to go up against experienced competitors with wildly modified rigs. i want to see what it is like to drive against the clock, on a course set by experienced competition organisers to see how both i and my car goes. I want to see if its the kind of thing i'd be interested in continuing or if i should stick to going wheeling with mates on the weekend.

How about if some of us who don't quite fit your mould of what you consider "beginner" vehicles are given the chance to run the same courses in the same conditions as actual competitors. But we do it on the proviso that we totally forfeit any points or placings and are ineligible for any prizes etc.

i agree with the defender dude. there are beginner vehicles and there are beginner drivers. not all beginner drivers own stock vehicles. If you truly want to have a competition for entry level people, listen to what your potential entry level drivers are having to say. There have been quite a few of us here now in this thread who are in the same boat as me. quite a few of us who would love to have a crack, but because we don't fit a certain mould of what you consider "noob" are being ruled out.

I would like to add, that while i've done considerable work to my car it is ALL road legal, and ALL of it has been done by myself or under my instructions as i've learnt along the way. If that doesn't fit the ideal of a bloke wanting a capable daily driver to have some fun in on the cheap then what does?

[rockcrawler31]

in fact i'll go one further

if someone on here has a vehicle that does fit the conditions, i'll team up with you. let me drive your stockish car while you navi for me, and i'll navi for you while you have a crack in mine.

Let us enter and have a shot, give us an opportunity to have some fun without the pressure.

but ferchrissakes don't roll the damnned thing, i only just finished building it

[FESTA]

I reakon your car is perfect for extreme milo

[XTREME MMM]

Just got back from Rocky looking at land for next years EFS XI, Looks good.

Now for some answers for those last several posts:-


Event:- this is a chance for everyone to build a vehicle or modify their vehicle to compete in an event along the lines of the XWC. The main difference is that you will all have vehicles that are road legal and will be able to be set up for a minimal cost.

Yes there is always costs involved regardless of what you do.

As for not having to compete against the top runners, this is not going to happen as I can see several building their own vehicles to compete in due course.

The reasons I do not allow hydraulic or PTO winches is that there is to many things that you can do to them that would give you a very big advantage, afterall there are people out there that will spend and do anything they can to get to the pointy end.

My vehicle does not comply:- This is a pointless comment, come and race at the XWC, stuff the big boys. We have had several teams over the years that have proved this with a lot of success.
Why do you have to go out and be competitive in your first event. I would think that you would go out just to compete and try and complete the SS in your first events and not go out to win. After all you are still learning.

Rollcages:- Now this could go on forever, but guess what the rules are set, after all it is for your safety.

To me a roll cage is designed to be a captual which you sit within. It is then covered by a body, not the other way around. Also the roll cage is not attached to the chassis direct, it is connect to the body which is connected to the chassis. So if the body falls off you are still within your captual inside the body. The perfect set up is where the seats and harness's are all part of the rollcage, this puts you in the perfect captual. Even CAMS do not recognize a external cage. If you are keen and want to compete there is always a way to comply.

Competing in non complied vehicles:- What part of NO don't you understand.

Again there is the XWC to compete in, the choice is your.

After all, this is my ball and if you want to come and play you have to abide by my rules or start your own comp with your own balls and rules, choice is yours.

That last comment was a bit much, but true. I have no self interest in how the rules are written. But I have the final say to fairness and safety standards.

This comp is designed for people to go and compete on a more level playing field, where dollars does not necessarily make you the winner. It will be possible to buy/build and go and compete for uder $15K (I know this is a bit of money but it is a lot cheaper then $80 - $100K plus). If you have the gear, expertice and time I think that you will be able to get this under $10K. I have based this on a Patrol. (Some of the winches being used now are worth this alone)

This comp also allows you to drive your vehicles around without fear of being put off the road.

If all else fails come and watch and gain some outside experience or come and be one of my officials, great conditions but no pay.

Cheers
David

[FESTA]

roll cage 1200 / mud tyres 1000 / 2nd hand winch 1000 / 1x ARB air locker 1250 racing winch challenge PRICELESS

[XTREME MMM]

Have received a couple of phone calls re:-

Q:- Wider drums being fitted with a spacer to bring it back to normal width?
A:- Yes you will be able to fit spacer to bring back to standard size. (Good idea Butler)


Q:- Can I disconnect my airfree spool to comply?
A:- Yes

Q:- Can I disconnect my second alternator (24volt) and run my winch on 12Volts?
A:- Yes


To those that are looking at the Xtreme Production Event you will now be able to enter that vehicle in the XWC Xtreme Class (which will now follow these rules) with the added rules of 35" tyres, airfree spool & wider drums, 24 volt system etc.

It will be possible to build one vehicle and compete in 2 events with very minor changes if you want to make them at all.

Please note the name change to the post.

Cheers
David

[gut42]

At the start of this thread it was an entry level event for begginers, I think you should not allow anyone who has competed in more than 2 or 3 XWC events to compete with the "begginers".

Its starting to sound like some regular competitors are gonna demodify their proven comp rigs just so they can be at the top of the field?

Maybe allow officails to advise/warn about possible rule infringements to help the newbies learn?

Just a few thoughts, what do you reckon Dave.

[XTREME MMM]

At the start of this thread it was an entry level event for begginers, I think you should not allow anyone who has competed in more than 2 or 3 XWC events to compete with the "begginers".

Its starting to sound like some regular competitors are gonna demodify their proven comp rigs just so they can be at the top of the field?

Maybe allow officails to advise/warn about possible rule infringements to help the newbies learn?

Just a few thoughts, what do you reckon Dave.

Hi some good comments.

I know that I set out to run a standard type event, and my possible name as entry level was not the correct thing as it should have related more on the vehicle.

I think that I did do that by having rules made up of what you could do to your vehicle more so then what or who could enter the event.

If you limited the entry level to what events you have done, I would knock out some of the early entrants who due to one thing or another sold their vehicle and have not come back. Now I have created an event that is affordable to most, and you can even drive your comp truck on the road (legal) at any time.

I cannot see that any of the major modified vehicles that compete in ARB XWC being changed back so they can compete in this event.

I can easily have a rule that past Xtreme Open vehicles are not premitted, with their current drivers or codrivers. If I did that they would only be one vehicle in the ARB XWC that could come and play.

As you might have noticed I will be bringing back the rules in the Xtreme Class in the ARB XWC, so that with only a few mods of the Production Event vehicles, they will become more competitive against "The Big Boys".

The rules will remain the same as ARB XWC, I think you learn more after you get a penalty then if you get a warning. All events must have the same guidelines. The major difference between the ARB XWC & Xtreme Production Event will be the track set up and DNF times may be a bit more.


Cheers
David

PS keep the questions coming..

[FESTA]

At the start of this thread it was an entry level event for begginers, I think you should not allow anyone who has competed in more than 2 or 3 XWC events to compete with the "begginers".

Its starting to sound like some regular competitors are gonna demodify their proven comp rigs just so they can be at the top of the field?

Maybe allow officails to advise/warn about possible rule infringements to help the newbies learn?

Just a few thoughts, what do you reckon Dave.

from my understanding from the start its a budget style winch challenge. the entry level bit came from the fact that you did not need to spend $100000 building a truck to be able to go out and mix it . The main factor that stops poeple competing in winch challenge is the cost. i will be racing this class next year as i am in the process of building a car which has cost me less to build than my last winch

[gut42]

Thats cause you work in a wrecking yard!!!

Me and bike boy will still beet you though! Even if it is with a big stick while your sleeping!

[FESTA]

Thats cause you work in a wrecking yard!!!

Me and bike boy will still beet you though! Even if it is with a big stick while your sleeping!

Thats right WORK in a wrecking yard , still got to pay for my bits

[Lepar]

I Agree wit u Festa,
Winches are the one biggest cost to any competitor wanting to mix with the so called "BIG BOY'S"
but you can still keep up with them or even beat them you just need bigger BALL'S and let me tell you it count's for a lot, aint that right Festa???
If any of you are a bit worried that your rig may be to far modified then go to one of the XWC event's and have a crack as we have all done in the past and i am sure that you will be quite surprised at how well you actually go at this event!
I first took my car to one such event as a GXL 80 Sreies wagon and all that i had was a roll cage,lockers and a stocko warn high mount that was as old as a dinosaur and was not mounted much better either, but i tell you what it didn't matter how bad i went everybody was only to happy to help out with a lot of simple suggestion's that made my car quite competitive and all that i had to do then was learn how to drive.........with by the way i am still trying to figure out, the pedals get me confused there is only one........GO FASTER, but that doesn't alway's work either!!!!
Slow and steady wins the race, just remember,
TO FINISH FIRST, FIRST YOU MUST FINISH!

Cheer's Lepar.

P.S. Dave i wont be at this event as i am leaving for the mine's on Sunday the 12th oct, i will try and be back with Piggy when i can.
Catch up soon.