AU falcon 302's

[Rory]

hey all,

just woundering what ppl know about this engines and there smartlocked ecu.
I was wondering if it is a case of running the engine, gearbox and computers and it should run?

Or are they other parts of the falcon body loom that will be needed to make it function correctly?

Iv had a sus around and havent been able to find many answers so any help would be great.

Rory

[PGS 4WD]

The AU has a flash ram inside the ECU, I haven't done one, I get more BA BF's but it should be possible to disable the antitheft via a flash tune, the box is about $700. I could look at the software and see if the necessary switches are in there.


Joel

[Eddy]

dis where the knowledge is at ...

http://www.fordaustraliaforums.com/forum/

[want33s]

The Ford EECIV computer is a good bit of gear* but trying to disable bits and pieces of it is a nightmare.
Throw it away and run a Wolf3D, Haltech or Motech ECU.
Sounds like a lot of money but I reckon it will work out cheaper in the long run.
Then throw the 302W and fit a 1,2,3UZFE
Jas.

* Ford use the same EECIV computer to run an XF Falcon & Cosworth F1 (& lots of others). Its a VERY good ECU but VERY hard to crack into unlike GM stock.

[mattsluxtruck]

The smartlock device is in the ignition barrel. You can buy a smartlock defeater device off ebay or from shiftkits.com.au to make it run in a vehicle without the smartlock ignition. They work and work well. I have one in my Maverick that I did the 5.0 EFI Windsor conversion to.

Series 1&2 AU runs smartlock , Series 3 runs Smartshield. I have no experience with smartshield so I cant help there.

Shiftkits.com.au is a good place to start cause they have a few little gadgets you need to make em run properly eg you need a frequency generator for an auto ECU to run correctly without an auto connected. Otherwise the computer will retard the timing on the motor and throw it into limp home mode and it will run like a busted arse.

Dont chuck the EEC cause of a couple of issues. It is a very good management system and you will need it fitted to pass emissions for engineers. If you have a factory computer you wont need an emissions test cause its already been done by the factory. To run aftermarket you will need one. At least thats the case in NSW.

If you severly mod the motor and the factory EEC dont wanna play no more , put a twEECer in it. Full programable but goes straight in the EEC case and uses all EEC sensors........................

Fordmods.com.au is a good source of info too. From memory 66coupe on there is the guy from shiftkits.com.au.

Hope this is of some help.
Matt

[Rory]

Thanks alot of the info guys!

I will be sure to sign up to the given forums and have a search around.

Want33s ur dead against the 302 for this project arent u lol been using uz's since i first mentioned it.

Thanks again and any more info is always handy.

Rory

[Struth]

What are you putting the windsor into?

Cheers

[brad-chevlux]

the easiest way around around smartlock and smartsheild is to buy an A9L mustang ECU from the states.

try these guys, shows what the A9L ecu can do, and you can buy a plug and play kit.
http://www.mass-floefi.com/index.html

[Rory]

Im planning to put it into a 1995 mazda bravo 2600 ute.

Thanks for the further information.

[Dexter]

Doesnt the 302 produce more torque than the 1UZFE?

[Struth]

The Windsor will undoubtedly be the best engine to squeeze in, essentially because it is physically smaller than the Lexus.

Possibly more torquey down low as well

Cheers

[Dexter]

The Windsor will undoubtedly be the best engine to squeeze in, essentially because it is physically smaller than the Lexus.

Possibly more torquey down low as well

Cheers

I thought that was the case just wasnt sure. I think it would be a very sweet engine for a four wheel drive.

[RAY185]

The smartlock device is in the ignition barrel. You can buy a smartlock defeater device off ebay or from shiftkits.com.au to make it run in a vehicle without the smartlock ignition. They work and work well. I have one in my Maverick that I did the 5.0 EFI Windsor conversion to.

Series 1&2 AU runs smartlock , Series 3 runs Smartshield. I have no experience with smartshield so I cant help there.

Shiftkits.com.au is a good place to start cause they have a few little gadgets you need to make em run properly eg you need a frequency generator for an auto ECU to run correctly without an auto connected. Otherwise the computer will retard the timing on the motor and throw it into limp home mode and it will run like a busted arse.

Dont chuck the EEC cause of a couple of issues. It is a very good management system and you will need it fitted to pass emissions for engineers. If you have a factory computer you wont need an emissions test cause its already been done by the factory. To run aftermarket you will need one. At least thats the case in NSW.

If you severly mod the motor and the factory EEC dont wanna play no more , put a twEECer in it. Full programable but goes straight in the EEC case and uses all EEC sensors........................

Fordmods.com.au is a good source of info too. From memory 66coupe on there is the guy from shiftkits.com.au.

Hope this is of some help.
Matt

My only addition to this is not to buy the ebay one. It doesnt work, I got 3 sent to me and none of them worked. Bought one off shiftkits and it works beautifully, plus the guy from shiftkits (cant remember his name) is a champ and very helpfull. Didn't bother trying to get my money back from the ebay bloke as it seemed like a waste of time. This is on an EF I6 motor but should be the same for the 302.

Matt: Can you elaborate anymore on the frequency generator you're talking about for the auto ecu? Are you talking about the vehicle speed sensor input? I think you replied to me once on a thread at fordmods. I checked out your build up, very impressive.

[mattsluxtruck]

The smartlock device is in the ignition barrel. You can buy a smartlock defeater device off ebay or from shiftkits.com.au to make it run in a vehicle without the smartlock ignition. They work and work well. I have one in my Maverick that I did the 5.0 EFI Windsor conversion to.

Series 1&2 AU runs smartlock , Series 3 runs Smartshield. I have no experience with smartshield so I cant help there.

Shiftkits.com.au is a good place to start cause they have a few little gadgets you need to make em run properly eg you need a frequency generator for an auto ECU to run correctly without an auto connected. Otherwise the computer will retard the timing on the motor and throw it into limp home mode and it will run like a busted arse.

Dont chuck the EEC cause of a couple of issues. It is a very good management system and you will need it fitted to pass emissions for engineers. If you have a factory computer you wont need an emissions test cause its already been done by the factory. To run aftermarket you will need one. At least thats the case in NSW.

If you severly mod the motor and the factory EEC dont wanna play no more , put a twEECer in it. Full programable but goes straight in the EEC case and uses all EEC sensors........................

Fordmods.com.au is a good source of info too. From memory 66coupe on there is the guy from shiftkits.com.au.

Hope this is of some help.
Matt

My only addition to this is not to buy the ebay one. It doesnt work, I got 3 sent to me and none of them worked. Bought one off shiftkits and it works beautifully, plus the guy from shiftkits (cant remember his name) is a champ and very helpfull. Didn't bother trying to get my money back from the ebay bloke as it seemed like a waste of time. This is on an EF I6 motor but should be the same for the 302.

Matt: Can you elaborate anymore on the frequency generator you're talking about for the auto ecu? Are you talking about the vehicle speed sensor input? I think you replied to me once on a thread at fordmods. I checked out your build up, very impressive.

Thanks Ray.
The frequency generator sends a signal to the ecu to make it think it is in drive. If the ecu doesnt think it is in drive it retards the timing right back. Something to do with keeping the power down when the standard auto is being shifted from reverse to drive. If it doesnt have the frequency generator on it the ecu will think the car is in reverse all the time pulling a huge chuck of timing out. Not good for power or fuel economy.It basically gets around having to run the transmission control unit with all resistors piggy backed into it. I got mine from shiftkits.com.au. He has all the information you need , it was actually him who told me that I might need it. Only cost something like $80.
I have never run a speed sensor input on mine. Have never needed it and it works fine.

[Struth]

The smartlock device is in the ignition barrel. You can buy a smartlock defeater device off ebay or from shiftkits.com.au to make it run in a vehicle without the smartlock ignition. They work and work well. I have one in my Maverick that I did the 5.0 EFI Windsor conversion to.

Series 1&2 AU runs smartlock , Series 3 runs Smartshield. I have no experience with smartshield so I cant help there.

Shiftkits.com.au is a good place to start cause they have a few little gadgets you need to make em run properly eg you need a frequency generator for an auto ECU to run correctly without an auto connected. Otherwise the computer will retard the timing on the motor and throw it into limp home mode and it will run like a busted arse.

Dont chuck the EEC cause of a couple of issues. It is a very good management system and you will need it fitted to pass emissions for engineers. If you have a factory computer you wont need an emissions test cause its already been done by the factory. To run aftermarket you will need one. At least thats the case in NSW.

If you severly mod the motor and the factory EEC dont wanna play no more , put a twEECer in it. Full programable but goes straight in the EEC case and uses all EEC sensors........................

Fordmods.com.au is a good source of info too. From memory 66coupe on there is the guy from shiftkits.com.au.

Hope this is of some help.
Matt

My only addition to this is not to buy the ebay one. It doesnt work, I got 3 sent to me and none of them worked. Bought one off shiftkits and it works beautifully, plus the guy from shiftkits (cant remember his name) is a champ and very helpfull. Didn't bother trying to get my money back from the ebay bloke as it seemed like a waste of time. This is on an EF I6 motor but should be the same for the 302.

Matt: Can you elaborate anymore on the frequency generator you're talking about for the auto ecu? Are you talking about the vehicle speed sensor input? I think you replied to me once on a thread at fordmods. I checked out your build up, very impressive.

Thanks Ray.
The frequency generator sends a signal to the ecu to make it think it is in drive. If the ecu doesnt think it is in drive it retards the timing right back. Something to do with keeping the power down when the standard auto is being shifted from reverse to drive. If it doesnt have the frequency generator on it the ecu will think the car is in reverse all the time pulling a huge chuck of timing out. Not good for power or fuel economy.It basically gets around having to run the transmission control unit with all resistors piggy backed into it. I got mine from shiftkits.com.au. He has all the information you need , it was actually him who told me that I might need it. Only cost something like $80.
I have never run a speed sensor input on mine. Have never needed it and it works fine.

I have heard that the speed sensor is not required on Ford EFIs.

I thought the same on my GMH EFI, but have since discovered that the speed sensor plays a large part in the fuel delivery to the engine, the power and the fuel consumption, particularly in not dumping too much fuel in once cruising.

Is there something fundamentally different between the two engine ECUs?

Cheers

[RAY185]

I cant speak for the V8 but with the I6 I had a rev limiter come in around 4200rpm. Wasn't overly worried about this as by that rpm I'm ready to shift but I planned on looking into it eventually. It never did it on LPG so I figured its cutting fuel somehow rather than spark, perhaps my lift pump/surge tank isnt up to it. I put a fuel pressure gauge on it and took it for a drive and it didn't drop or spike at the rev limiting point. Had to be injectors being cut electronically but why?

Heaps of people said these motors don't need VSS input because all it does is tell the box when to shift. I was lucky enough to have access to another EF falcon and pulled the plug on the transducer. Sure enough, same rev limiter. I ended up getting an aftermaket transducer (hall effect) with an adapter which would thread onto my transfer and accept my cruiser speedo cable. After wiring it in it fixed the problem and now I can rev it out to red line at 5,500rpm.

Motor runs well and seems to be advancing the timing as it should but I might have a look at the resistances the ECU is expecting from the inhibitor switch and rig something up to see if it makes a difference.

Matt does yours rev out to redline with no dramas?

[mattsluxtruck]

Yeah mine seems to rev out hard with no issues. I wanted to have my speed sensor hooked up but there is no piggy back unit available cause the Maverick runs an electronic speedo drive. I was going to have a pulse splitter set up to run the speed sensor but was told that it is only required for the auto to know where to shift. Further more the speed sensor input does not go directly to the ECU. It goes to the speedo first in the Falcon where it is convertered to a data stream and then sent to the ECU.

[RAY185]

Further more the speed sensor input does not go directly to the ECU. It goes to the speedo first in the Falcon where it is convertered to a data stream and then sent to the ECU.

Correct, all thats needed is a resistor between the reference wire and the signal (to ECU) wire on the transducer and she's apples.

So it would seem that there might be 2 differences between the v8 and 6cyl ecu requirements as far as the auto trans (or lack thereof) is concerned.

I6 needs a speed sensor and the v8 does not.
V8 needs an inhibitor switch input and the I6 does not. (I will test this to confirm but it seems the case at the moment)

[want33s]

Want33s ur dead against the 302 for this project arent u lol been using uz's since i first mentioned it.



Rory

I am all for transplanting fine Ford power into anything it will fit in from an MX-5 to an F150.

I love Fords but I don't think it is the best engine for a lightweight ute that didn't handle brilliantly with a small 4 cylinder engine in the first place.

I know in QLD you can fit a turbo to a six if a V8 is legal in that car so(after speaking with an engineer) I'd be tending to look at Nissan VG30 with big turbo or something similar.
Anything that produces the power you want and is as light as possible.

I tend to look at what suits the vehicle best and is the nicest, neatest fit (looks like a factory fitment) rather than go with whatever is popular at the time.

Jas.

[Struth]

I cant speak for the V8 but with the I6 I had a rev limiter come in around 4200rpm. Wasn't overly worried about this as by that rpm I'm ready to shift but I planned on looking into it eventually. It never did it on LPG so I figured its cutting fuel somehow rather than spark, perhaps my lift pump/surge tank isnt up to it. I put a fuel pressure gauge on it and took it for a drive and it didn't drop or spike at the rev limiting point. Had to be injectors being cut electronically but why?

Heaps of people said these motors don't need VSS input because all it does is tell the box when to shift. I was lucky enough to have access to another EF falcon and pulled the plug on the transducer. Sure enough, same rev limiter. I ended up getting an aftermaket transducer (hall effect) with an adapter which would thread onto my transfer and accept my cruiser speedo cable. After wiring it in it fixed the problem and now I can rev it out to red line at 5,500rpm.

Motor runs well and seems to be advancing the timing as it should but I might have a look at the resistances the ECU is expecting from the inhibitor switch and rig something up to see if it makes a difference.

Matt does yours rev out to redline with no dramas?

My GMH struggles above 3000 rpm, it will go to four but slowly, currently investigating on Aussie V8s why this may be. I must say it has been driving me mad since the conversion hit the road 9 months ago.

I will ask them over at Aussie regarding the inhibitor switch on the GMH.

Cheers

[mattsluxtruck]

I just remembered. The v8 ecu has a seperate transmission control unit and the I6 has the transmission control built into the ecu. Therefore that is why I dont need a speed sensor in mine but Ray needs one in his!

[Rory]

Jas- the reason i shy away from the uz is the fact every 2nd modded ute has or wants to run one, or a 350chev. The ones iv been in didnt impress me much out of the box.

mattsluxtruck - I was down at the wreakers before and noticed it had 2 ECU style boxs hanging off it and woundered what the other one was.

Im actully planning on keeping the auto attached to it and using it in the ute, hopefully being smoother will save the need to a diff upgrade untill later.

My next problem is i cant get a straight enough answer from the wreakers as to what series motor it is?
They are saying its from a 2000fairlane, so i think that makes it a s2?

The shiftkits.com.au site says that the smartlock bypass only works on s1 motors. Any conformation if it will work with a s2?

What model engine did u put in you mav matt?

Thanks for all the info and links guy, its helping lots!

[mattsluxtruck]

Rory ask the wreckers if they have the remotes to open the car. If it is the old style black 2 button one it is smartlock and the override should work ok. If it it the new funny shaped one it will be a smartshield and i dunno what to do there. There should be some markings on the side windows of smrtlock or smartshield as well.
Maybe get the numbers off the ecu and send them to shiftkits. He should be able to tell you what ECU it is from the catch codes.

[mattsluxtruck]

I put an EB series 2 XR8 motor in my Mav mate. Not really that much different from the AU except the AU got the explorer manifold and GT40P heads while I got stuck with the crappy HO manifold and E7 heads.
Both of which will be retified when I rebuild the motor to the 347 stroker Im planning..............

[ozrunner]

I believe Smartshield commenced around May 1999 so anything prior is Smartlock

There is a bit of confusing info above

These model engines do not run EEC-IV, they use EEC-V. The difference being EEC-IV uses a TFI ignition distributor system whereas EEC-V has no distributor being coil pack ignition with an ignition trigger on the harmonic balancer and a sensor in the distributor hole

Obviously EEC-V is a much smarter system in that it’s computations are much faster and it does more etc than the EEC-IV but the EEC-IV system is still more advanced than most so it comes down to preferences etc.

As you are proposing a complete swap with trans etc into a 2wd then if you are able to access all the electrical parts including the engine and trans ecu’s etc etc then it would be a relatively simple swap using a smartlock engine with the simple bypass and the way to go.

In my engine conversion swap in 1993 I used the EEC-IV and initially had the engine mated to a Toyota ecu controlled auto and used a basic EB Falcon auto ecu to run the engine. No issues whatsoever. I later swapped in a Toyota 5 speed and retained the auto engine ecu with again no issues.

Later, I tested a variety of later model EEC-IV ecu’s including a smartlock model using an eBay bypass and again all were fine.

But I also tested a US Mustang manual A9L and Auto A9P and I currently run the A9P auto ecu as it is the best I have used to the extent I brought a new one from the US and plan to have a Capa eliminator chip added to it to run my new 347 that I am currently building as a refresh motor .

So from a conversion perspective and something to keep in mind is as far as the engine goes it’s only mechanical and couldn’t give a rats what model ECU is telling it what to do , ie if it’s a smartshield engine then it will still run using a smartlock ecu or if it was me I would ditch the whole coil pack ignition sustem, install an EEC-IV distributor and run it on a EEC-IV Mustang A9P ECU

[mattsluxtruck]

You are 100% correct there ozrunner. I totally forgot that the AU was EECV and is a coil pack setup.

How did you connect the Windsor up to the Toyota auto? What box did you use and what bits? Reason I ask this is I have a 3.slow V6 auto 4runner in the driveway and a spare 302 EFI Windsor in the backyard...................... getting evil ideas here. Is it possible?

[PGS 4WD]

My GMH struggles above 3000 rpm, it will go to four but slowly, currently investigating on Aussie V8s why this may be. I must say it has been driving me mad since the conversion hit the road 9 months ago.

I will ask them over at Aussie regarding the inhibitor switch on the GMH.

Cheers

What GMH are you running, I have had no issues tuning the early Delco or current Delfi ECU's without vss, it can be disabled in software no worries, it takes a bit of getting the idle correct as you drop an auto into gear and when you slow to a stop so it dosen't stall. An inhibitor is no isses either, its just like a manual. Mixture control is no problem and the economy will be just as good with it corrected or not. I'd be looking at fuel supply as you may be causing some harm to your motor if it won't rev freely.

Cheers

Joel

[ozrunner]

.....How did you connect the Windsor up to the Toyota auto? What box did you use and what bits? ..... Is it possible?

Yes as I used the same auto and still have the special discontinued US bell and all the bits you would need but in all honesty it's not really a good auto to use.

After 7 years use with the auto I swapped in a manual and the difference was chalk and cheeze. No comparison as the manual is waaaaay better

.

[Struth]

My GMH struggles above 3000 rpm, it will go to four but slowly, currently investigating on Aussie V8s why this may be. I must say it has been driving me mad since the conversion hit the road 9 months ago.

I will ask them over at Aussie regarding the inhibitor switch on the GMH.

Cheers

What GMH are you running, I have had no issues tuning the early Delco or current Delfi ECU's without vss, it can be disabled in software no worries, it takes a bit of getting the idle correct as you drop an auto into gear and when you slow to a stop so it dosen't stall. An inhibitor is no isses either, its just like a manual. Mixture control is no problem and the economy will be just as good with it corrected or not. I'd be looking at fuel supply as you may be causing some harm to your motor if it won't rev freely.

Cheers

Joel

Thanks for that, I am having the fuel pressure checked tomorrow morning as low fuel pressure can contribute to all the symptoms my engine is displaying.

It's a VT 5.0

Had the MAF checked today, it's ok too.

I hooked up a VSS adaptor late last week and it now runs a bit more economically (not enough yet though).

Thanks again for the input.

Cheers