oil/air separators

[03turbo]

Hi Guys
I am looking for peoples opinion on oil catch cans for turbo diesels.
Would like to stop the oil getting into my intercooler and plumbing and have read various reports of good and bad. Spotted one at the spare parts joint, its a DRIFT brand and has the larger in and out pipes on it .
Good or bad ??
Cheers
Its a turbo 2.5 courier

[barbz]

see if you can find one off an air compressor (half inch barbs) as it will do the job more easily and you wont need to worry about baffling or filtering the DRIFT brand one as normally they are just a can and thats it.

[tweak'e]

as above.

most do not have any filtering medium in them to catch the fine oil mist thats comes out of the breather. you will need to modify one to suit.

or you can use an air compressor filter, tho 1/2" ones are not all that cheap (check out surplus stores ) especially if the motor has a MAF sensor make sure the filter has the filter part on the outlet side.

[bogged]

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/index.php
search here, dozens of threads on catch cans, seems a MUSt have for grenade owners.

[ISUZUROVER]

You need one of these:

http://www.mann-hummel.com/industrialfi ... jNfiqC.pdf

ProVent® is MANN newest innovation for crankcase ventilation. It is specifically designed to accommodate the latest generation of turbo-charged engines. Its compact and robust design allows flexible installation locations on the engine or in the engine compartment. It has the following advantages over other solutions:

-Highly efficient oil separation as a closed as well as an open system providing ideal protection for the turbocharger and other components installed downstream
-Low pressure loss
-Less motor oil consumption in comparison to less efficient separators or conventional open systems
-Low running costs
-No electrical energy required
-Maintenance friendly - fittings are not removed during element maintenance

DO NOT use an air compressor filter (air/oil separator). They have a MUCH higher pressure drop across them, because they are too small and too dense for the application. If you fit a compressor filter, you will probably blow oil seals due to the extra crankcase pressure.

The above won't cost you much more than a shiny/bling catchcan, but will WORK MUCH better. Catch cans just remove the really big oil droplets. The above filters remove 90-99% of the mass of oil, and return it straight back to the sump.

[GRPABT1]

Not fourby related but I went through all the researching etc when building a catch can for my worked V8 commodore. What you want is an oil air seperator not just a catch can, you still need to provide proper crank case ventilation which the dorifto and drag style simple hose of the rockers to a can do not provide. If you don't retain proper through crank case vetilation as per factory setup (normally it gets clean air from the intake tract, goes through crank case and out the rocker back into the inlet, hence oil in your turbo plumbing), you will get moisture buildup and possibly pressure buildup in your crank case. Best case scenario then is you will need to change your oil more often like every 3000km or less.

I went to the trouble of designing my own custom oil air seperator and making it out of stainless at work, I used steelo style scourers to catch the oil mist and it works a treat. I drain about 200mls out of it every oil change.

[ISUZUROVER]

Not fourby related but I went through all the researching etc when building a catch can for my worked V8 commodore...

I went to the trouble of designing my own custom oil air seperator and making it out of stainless at work, I used steelo style scourers to catch the oil mist and it works a treat. I drain about 200mls out of it every oil change.

The steel-wool style catch cans remove about 30-40% of the mass of oil at best. You would have been better off buying a Provent.

Petrol engines don't (usually) breath anywhere near as heavily as Turbo diesels.

However I agree with you 100% on the "drifto style " catch cans being next to useless.

[barbz]

Ben,

The ckd filters have next to no pressure drop across them and definatly less restriction that the stock pipe.

works a treat; lots of zd30 guys running them and no problems.

cost was $70.

Paul

[ISUZUROVER]

Ben,

The ckd filters have next to no pressure drop across them and definatly less restriction that the stock pipe.

works a treat; lots of zd30 guys running them and no problems.

cost was $70.

Paul

I am sure they have next to no DP when new and oil free, however I am also sure that won't be the case when they are loaded up with oil.

The surface area of the provent element is huge compared to most compressed air filters.

Large diesel (truck etc) engines have pressure sensors in the crankcase these days, which shut the engine down if the crankcase pressure hits 20 mBar. Most air compressor filters are designed to operate at around 200 mBar when saturated with oil.

Glad to hear you are happy, but no way I would run one. I have been working in R&D in the field for >10 years.

[tweak'e]

the air compressor filters are 1/2". the ZD30's actually have a restrictor in the hose which normally cuts the flow right down anyway.

even with my home built which uses a breather filter inside the can there is no restriction even when filled with oil.
however if rings went and there was huge amount of oil being blown out of the breather then it might become a bit of a restriction.

provent would be awesome, just cost and availability means its often not even looked at. ideally they should be fitted OEM just like big rigs.

[barbz]

Aplogies Ben,

Out of curiosity I checked mine compared to the stock pipe, my filter has been on for around 5k and it was hard to blow through, sorry.

I have the filter out of it now so at least it can equalise but luckily I rarely drive the patrol so it gives me time to sort it.

I still think the amount of oil captured by these filters is far superior to the super cheap jobbies so it is a matter of changing the filter every 5k when you do the oil so be it.

Cheers
Paul

[ISUZUROVER]

Aplogies Ben,

Out of curiosity I checked mine compared to the stock pipe, my filter has been on for around 5k and it was hard to blow through, sorry.

I have the filter out of it now so at least it can equalise but luckily I rarely drive the patrol so it gives me time to sort it.

I still think the amount of oil captured by these filters is far superior to the super cheap jobbies so it is a matter of changing the filter every 5k when you do the oil so be it.

Cheers
Paul

Hi Paul,

No need to apologise - we are just here to help each other!

Those filters would be very efficient! However I think they would clog up sooner than 5k intervals... Depends how heavily the engine breathes though.

But I agree - even a bit of old rag stuffed in a pipe would be better than one of the "super-cheap jobbies".

[03turbo]

Where do you install the oil return pipe on the provent system?

[ISUZUROVER]

Where do you install the oil return pipe on the provent system?

The easiest is usually to T it into the turbo oil drain. But, you can plumb it in anywhere that will drain back to the sump.

[tweak'e]

Aplogies Ben,

Out of curiosity I checked mine compared to the stock pipe, my filter has been on for around 5k and it was hard to blow through, sorry.

I have the filter out of it now so at least it can equalise but luckily I rarely drive the patrol so it gives me time to sort it.

I still think the amount of oil captured by these filters is far superior to the super cheap jobbies so it is a matter of changing the filter every 5k when you do the oil so be it.

Cheers
Paul

yours the onw on patrol forum?
if so yours would be the only one i've heard thats cloged up. tho it seams yours has a different filter.
if its not you on other forum can you post a pic of the filter?

[barbz]

its me



thats the filter - its the 5um version so the others can only be a tighter weave or havent had them on for as long as I have.

[ISUZUROVER]

thats the filter - its the 5um version

Micron ratings for air filters are misleading. An air filter rated at 5 micron will probably only remove 50% of 5 micron oil droplets. A large proportion of the oil mist which comes out the breather is smaller.

Also, air filters are not seives. The holes in that filter will be much larger than 5 microns.

[PGS 4WD]

We make our own as the BLITZ and alike are practically useless as an oil seperator, altough I have modified some by running one of the pipes to the bottom (they are side by side at the top) and filled the can with stainless steel wool.
Ours are larger and have a baffled compartments with hose fitting top and bottom so the oil/vapour has to pass through going up hill and also through a section of satinless steel wool.

Cheers

Joel

[GRPABT1]

Not fourby related but I went through all the researching etc when building a catch can for my worked V8 commodore...

I went to the trouble of designing my own custom oil air seperator and making it out of stainless at work, I used steelo style scourers to catch the oil mist and it works a treat. I drain about 200mls out of it every oil change.

The steel-wool style catch cans remove about 30-40% of the mass of oil at best. You would have been better off buying a Provent.

Petrol engines don't (usually) breath anywhere near as heavily as Turbo diesels.

However I agree with you 100% on the "drifto style " catch cans being next to useless.

It's on a worked holden V8, they are known for puking oil out the breathers at high revs cause the drain back holes in the heads are too small. I think mine works better than 40% as after a year of using it I checked the intake piping and the intake plenum and they are still clean as a whistle.

This is what it looked like before

[GRPABT1]

We make our own as the BLITZ and alike are practically useless as an oil seperator, altough I have modified some by running one of the pipes to the bottom (they are side by side at the top) and filled the can with stainless steel wool.
Ours are larger and have a baffled compartments with hose fitting top and bottom so the oil/vapour has to pass through going up hill and also through a section of satinless steel wool.

Cheers

Joel

Yours sounds similar to mine, although it is pretty big and takes up some space.

[Dexter]

Where did you source the ProVent from?

[ISUZUROVER]

Where did you source the ProVent from?

The Australian agents are:

MANN AND HUMMEL AUSTRALIA (PTY) LTD
40/8 Avenue of the Americas
Newington Technology Park
Newington NSW 2127

+61 2 9647 1700
+61 2 9647 1936
sales@mann-hummel.com.au

It's on a worked holden V8, they are known for puking oil out the breathers at high revs cause the drain back holes in the heads are too small.

Ahh - ok. If that is the case then you probably have lots of HUGE droplets coming out, so the efficiency would be higher.

Most Tdis and trucks have better oil drainage and larger diameter breathers, so the oil that comes out is smaller in diameter, so harder to capture.

[tweak'e]

the diesel certainly seam to fire out a very fine oil mist. pull the breather hose off and it fires out a cloud of oil. it barely gets your hand wet.
open the rocker cover cap almost fogs out the engine bay

i suspect thats due to the heavy piston cooling from the oil spray bar/jets.
ZD30 is proberly a bit worse due to it having a big passage at the front from sump to rocker cover.