Painting 4WD's

[Swerve]

Getting near that time to start preping and painting the 1972.

I'm not going to use any bog or filler and just knock out a few dings with a hammer and dolly and paint. This is what I had found previously and I asume that is Arcylic.

Does anyone have anything to add ?

1-Wet sand with the finest grit paper you can find very lightly
2-Use denatured alcohol to wipe down after wet sanding and before each coat, to clean and prep surface for next coat of paint
3-Paint 3 coats before sanding in between coats denatured alcohol to wipe down
4-Let it dry for about 24 hrs each 3 coats and about a 2 hours in between the sanding and next coat
5-Supply 4 more coats with sanding in between and wipe down with denatured alcohol before next coat

[NutterGQ]

not even close, first you need to know if it is acrylic, 2k or some other crap (machine enamel etc), then you can be told what to do.....acrylic certainly doesn't go on like that. Get some acrylic thinners on a rag and see if it washes the color you have now off, that's a good start.

[Swerve]

The car (1972 Nissan Patrol G60) is original paint which is 35 years old, I would asume this is 2 pack.

From what I have read acrylic will stick to teh 2 pack as long as I rough it up etc . (I'm no expert) Will prime any raw steel patchs or where I sand back rust spots.

[LFONZ]

If your not using bog of filler just a dolly you must be a good beater. what to you want a good finish for if the panels arn't spot on.

For a ruff job I would sand with 150, under coat, sand again, colour, let it flash off then colour again, and done.

Wet rub the final coat then clear it or just cut it (depends on what you want).

Its all in the prep work

[Swerve]

If your not using bog of filler just a dolly you must be a good beater. what to you want a good finish for if the panels arn't spot on.

For a ruff job I would sand with 150, under coat, sand again, colour, let it flash off then colour again, and done.

Wet rub the final coat then clear it or just cut it (depends on what you want).

Its all in the prep work

Trust me I'm no panel beater, just the occasional ding that can be reduced by a bang teh other direction. Will have a few crumples but thats fine.

I just dont want to use bog at this stage as I may take it apart later on (all bolts together) and do a panel by panel properly and use bog then. Would rather not be placing bog over bog at this stage ! Plus it's a 4wd and is going to get dinged, cant be to pretty

[Guy]

If your not using bog of filler just a dolly you must be a good beater. what to you want a good finish for if the panels arn't spot on.

For a ruff job I would sand with 150, under coat, sand again, colour, let it flash off then colour again, and done.

Wet rub the final coat then clear it or just cut it (depends on what you want).

Its all in the prep work

Trust me I'm no panel beater, just the occasional ding that can be reduced by a bang teh other direction. Will have a few crumples but thats fine.

I just dont want to use bog at this stage as I may take it apart later on (all bolts together) and do a panel by panel properly and use bog then. Would rather not be placing bog over bog at this stage ! Plus it's a 4wd and is going to get dinged, cant be to pretty

You have about 10 coats in your first post ... isnt that going a bit over the top for something not to pretty ?

[NutterGQ]

If your not using bog of filler just a dolly you must be a good beater. what to you want a good finish for if the panels arn't spot on.

For a ruff job I would sand with 150, under coat, sand again, colour, let it flash off then colour again, and done.

Wet rub the final coat then clear it or just cut it (depends on what you want).

Its all in the prep work

Trust me I'm no panel beater, just the occasional ding that can be reduced by a bang teh other direction. Will have a few crumples but thats fine.

I just dont want to use bog at this stage as I may take it apart later on (all bolts together) and do a panel by panel properly and use bog then. Would rather not be placing bog over bog at this stage ! Plus it's a 4wd and is going to get dinged, cant be to pretty

You have about 10 coats in your first post ... isnt that going a bit over the top for something not to pretty ?

10 coats is too much no matter how you do it, it causes all kindsa probs...2k wasnt commonly used back then, i suggest you wipe it like i said and work out what it is, that way you'll get the right answer instead of lots of guesses.

[chunderlicious]

im about to do mine in 2pak im scared to say the least as im not a painter and to tell the truth, i have no painting skill really.

the advise i was given about acrylic basically was that its shit and it will require more work after the paint has been applied aswell as before it is applied. it also doesnt last very long as the chemical reaction it uses to stick is the thinners and when it dries the stuff just falls off or gets crows feet all through it.

off topic, how long should i leave between coats of 2 pak, one guy said just leave it overnight while another told me do the 4 primer coats 45 mins apart, leave overnight then sand and clean, degrease it again then do the 4 colour coats, leave overnight, sand very very lightly, clean again and degrease, then 4 clear coats. does this sound right?

[bimbo]

If you are spraying 2 pack then i hope you have a self ventilating mask and a booth to spray in. that cr@p is nasty stuff and if you use a standard dust/chemical mask from bunnings it will knock a few years off your life.

I have sprayed a car in 2 pack and sprayed a coat a day. If you don't let it set or long enough then the paint will clog sand paper up quick smart. too long and you will be sand for ever.

As for prep i would find out what the original paint type is and either spray the same - acrylic or enamal or sand everything back to bare metal and spray what ever you want.

If it were me i would spray the same type. scuff the body back with 80-150 grit to give the primer something to key to. kill any rust with a suitable paste/solution and bog/weld/replace the area

wipe it with some wax and greas remover. Spray a coat of high build primer. Considering the questions you are asking i am guessing you havn't done heaps of spray work before so chances are there will be runs in some areas and orange peal in others.

give the primer time to cure and then sand it with 400grit wet using a sanding block. dry with compressed air or sun and wipe with wax and grease remover. spray another coat of primer. and hit it with 600grit wet.

if the paint is looking good and you havn't had to sand off too much then you can shoot some colour on it. if you are spraying well you can probably shoot 3 coats of colour - check cure times etc on the tin of paint.

if you are still spraying ordinary - orange peel and runs the probably only spray one or 2 coats then sand flat again with 600-800 wet.

once you have 3-4 good coats on then let it cure for a while. wet sand with 1000-1500 and gradually move up in grade then buffing compound then cut and polish.

Hope this helps you out a little but if you google it there are plenty of tips out there that will help

Cheers
James

[Slunnie]

I just used a roller and a tin of Rustgard blue for a bushready jigger.

[ajsr]

ok all the above bullshit aside
particularly bimbos first three statements which are totally wrong.

if you are capable of spraying it two pack is definatly the go.its harder lasts longer and keeps its shine its generally less affected by chemicals

you do not need two remove the substrate (old paint) if its in reasonable kinck.

you must sand all area's to be painted properly (as in no shiny spots) 600 wet and dry for solid colors 800 for metalics idealy scotch brite panels after sanding to make sure (red scotch brite not green) ajax cleaner is great on scotch brit as it remover any shine an cleans the paint make sure the water is clean

all repairs should be finished with at least 80 - 120 grit or finer with paint edges feathered out to stop shrink back later and primer should be given a couple of days drying time

vehicle should be washed inside and out (yes the door jambs too) to remove all rubbing sludge and dust and then dried properly with rags and air blower gun blowing out trims ect

entire vehicle should be prepwashed (wax and grease remover) one panel at a time wipe it on with one rag soaked in it wipe it off properly with a dry rag (never leave it on panel )

mask with a good brand masking tape (no they are not all the same)
and pref masking paper (caution two pac can bleed through news paper and cause it two stick two surface beneath)

when masked up re prepwash whole car

paint

you dont need a self ventilating mask just one rated for isocynate use
you paint shop will be able to help you there(they are not real cheap)

if using two pack mix ratio is critical be it 2:1 3:1 or 4:1
mix paint and leave it to sit at least 10 minutes before spraying (it needs to activate)
do not thin two pack down too much (its not like acrylic 50/50) most two packs are thinned only 10 - 15 %

spraying temperature for two pack is as close to 20 deg c as you can get

time betwwen coats is between 5 - 15 minutes or when it is nearly tacked off (touch some masking tape with paint on it with you finger)

never leave two pack longer than 1 hour between coat and never never over night (no brand recommends this) it can delaminate between coats(not stick) or can cause fry ups in paint

do not try to cover in one coat this causes runs 50% overlap from last pass

3- 4 coats total in solids are usually enough

some colors may require a ground coat (grey base ect) under them to
cover properly

with two pack less is sort of more dont go silly it flows for a few minutes after application

allow 24 hours before unmasking (caution if you unmask too earliy the paint on tape and paper can stick to you job)

treat very carefully for a few days if its not been backed it water spots within first 30 hours so if you get it wet carfully chamious off


acrylic is a different story pm if you need
im sick of typing this

how do i know this
I had a panel shop for years and was a tech rep for watyl paints for 18 mths
happy to answer and questions pm me
cheers andrew
anyone that knows better or doesnt agree you know where to stick this

[Swerve]

asjr,

Great write up and thanks for your help. I will follow your advice word for word.

Really appreiciated and thankyou

Steve

[JohnJohn]

2- 3 coats of quality 2k solids automotive paint is more than enough about 10 mins + between coats with std hardner.
Dont use fast hardner on a full respray.

[bimbo]

ok go nuts guys but dont come cry on here when you get crapload of runs in your paint, and all sorts of bits and pieces of grass and dust stuck in your paint. as someone else said 2 pack 'flows'for a good few mins after it has been sprayed so it will look good when it goes on but once you go back and have a look it will have sagged and run. It also stays wet for much longer than auto acrylics etc which are much easier to spray.

If you havn't done much spraying i would STRONGLY recomend not using 2 pack. Acrylic is far easier to spray and much cheaper, so you can respray areas many times and still be infront $ wise.

If you are going to use a cartridge mask make sure they seal properly. I was under the impression that you couldn't get cartridges for isocyanate, well i couldn't find them when i was spraying my car but that was sa few years ago.

Maybe i should have put a disclaimer in my last post. I am not a professional spraypainter by any means but have painted a few cars and panels. The car that i completely resprayed in 2 pack - apparently all wrong - still looks pretty friggen good after 5 or so years on the road. What i suggested in my posts i how i would/have done it in the past and never had an issue.

cheers
James

[ajsr]

ok go nuts guys but dont come cry on here when you get crapload of runs in your paint, and all sorts of bits and pieces of grass and dust stuck in your paint. as someone else said 2 pack 'flows'for a good few mins after it has been sprayed so it will look good when it goes on but once you go back and have a look it will have sagged and run. It also stays wet for much longer than auto acrylics etc which are much easier to spray.

If you havn't done much spraying i would STRONGLY recomend not using 2 pack. Acrylic is far easier to spray and much cheaper, so you can respray areas many times and still be infront $ wise.

If you are going to use a cartridge mask make sure they seal properly. I was under the impression that you couldn't get cartridges for isocyanate, well i couldn't find them when i was spraying my car but that was sa few years ago.

Maybe i should have put a disclaimer in my last post. I am not a professional spraypainter by any means but have painted a few cars and panels. The car that i completely resprayed in 2 pack - apparently all wrong - still looks pretty friggen good after 5 or so years on the road. What i suggested in my posts i how i would/have done it in the past and never had an issue.

cheers
James

as bimbo said acryic is far more forgiving and is advisable for anyone with little or no spraying experince.
but acryic really is shit.
you can get quite good results with spraying enamel too
but it is shit as well
if you beat the piss out of you fourby and wish to quickly clean it up every year use one of the above if you want to do it properly and have it look good for years ,with good chemical and sratch resisance use two pack.

but heres the thing spraypainting is a 4 year apprenitceship for a reason the job you end up with is all in the prep and the closer you follow the rules of prep and paints the better the job you will end up with.make no mistake paint companies dont market two pack for use by the public its deigned to be used in temp controled booths etc ,baked at 60 deg c but if you are carefull and follow the tips ive given you it will work ok .it takes practice to paint properly


and yes his vehicle may still look good after 5 years but two pack is a professional product and hence has a strict scope within its supposed to be used .I didnt make the rules of two pack use bimbo Im just telling you what they are.Ive seen some of the biggest tech farkups when working for wattle caused by people doing some of the things that you put in you post.if you really want the final word on this down load the msd sheets from dulux or wattle im pretty sure they both post them on the net.
if you have any questions pm me im happy to help
cheers andrew

[turkey]

Listen to what ajsr is sayin, he is pretty much right on the money... I have been manufacturing and spraying marine, auto and industrial 2packs for 15 years and what he has said is pretty much gospel when it comes to 2packs. Same any questions feel free to ask or PM me also, I am still in the trade and happyto help

[booflux]

I agree with ajsr I got similiar advice before doing my barwork and tray in 2pac. Came up great and I would never touch acrylic after doing it. I was a total novice also, like anything we do ourselves patience and the right tools are the keys imo.

[cj]

If you don't mind me asking, I'm building a weekend toy that is not going to be a daily driver so show winning attention to detail is not a priority. What I want is to spray it with something suitable for someone with no experience and ideally I could also get some rattle cans made up with it as well for touch ups for the inevitable damage. Any suggestions as to which way to go?

[ajsr]

spraying enamel is a good place to start for a bush 4by
the shine is ok, its cheap,will go over average repairs and prep is not as critical.
if you use it make sure you use an emamel hardener it make it shine better and generally more scratch resistant. also use enamel thinner for best results altough multi purpose will also work and is less likely to run.
some paint places will put paint colors into cans. although id paint the car in a color you can readily by anywhere in cans.
cheers andrew

[cj]

Thanks, I originally started looking for a colour by looking at the cans on the shelf at Bunnings figuring that it would make it easy to get a touch up can. Then I started thinking about using Kill Rust or Rust Guard epoxy enamel seeing as I live near the sea and corrosion is a problem.

[jessie928]

your a beginner.... stay well away from 2k

your first choice should be acrylic, its easy to spray, easy to repair, easy to rub and buff...

acrylic paint is not crap, if you get a quality paint it will be all you need.

i cant beleive the posts here that advise sanding with 150 grit before PAINT... have you guys ever painted 2k over paint that has been hit with 150!????

Jes

[ajsr]

jessie is right acrylic is a good place to start if you dont have a lot of confidence in what you are doing.it does require a lot of rubbing and buffing though to get a good looking shiny job compared to 2 pac.
also acrylic requires a regular polish to keep looking its best.
acrylic is not very chemical or scrach resistant however so watch spilling things on it and some of those truckwashes will pull all the shine off it and send it chalky.bird shit can wreck it sometimes too
it is easy to buff a shine on though

(note be carefull buffing acryic when its fresh as it burns really easily)

and NEVER PAINT OVER ANYTHING LESS THAN 600 GRIT PAPER 800 FOR
METALICS you will see every scatch

cheers andrew