Possibly able to pick up:
"For Sale- Charade 1.6 DeTomasu engine + loom + computer + dash cluster + DeTomasu badge (130,000kms)"
for $300 plus freight to sydney from qld.
From reading through the forum noone seems to have done this swap yet due to price.
However i was hoping that someone knew:
A) Would it be worth it (the car isnt a DD)
B) What would i need to do electrically (never done a full ECU swap but im up for anything!)
C) Will the intake manifold fit as it point the other way but is much shorter.
Thanks for any help here
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Tomo Engine
Moderator: Tiny
Tomo Engine
80 Series 4.2TD:
4" Lift on 35's, F+R Air Lockers, F+R Barwork, Sliders, Warn Hi-Mount
4" Lift on 35's, F+R Air Lockers, F+R Barwork, Sliders, Warn Hi-Mount
You'd most likely have to integrate the new loom and ECU into the Feroza. From what I've read the Detom has a far more advanced ECU that can do ign timing control etc. I doubt you'd be able to simply slot in the engine and swap the ECU's.
Apart from that it should be no different from a normal Applause engine swap which is well documented on here.
Apart from that it should be no different from a normal Applause engine swap which is well documented on here.
David
Whoa guys - Its the SAME engine - just tarted up a bit
There are very few differences between an HD and an HD-E, cam is different, runs coil packs, a knock sensor and a different ECU - so the HD's biggest limitation - lack of adequate timing control is solved
Block, crank, head, rods, pistons etc etc are ALL THE SAME.
Exhaust and inlet are different but of little use in a Feroza, especially as extractors/headers are readily available.
The detomaso makes its power by revving harder and better timing control - a gain yes, but not at all ideal for a Feroza.
Without sounding like the "SEARCH" Nazi's this is a case where it would have worked. I'm running a detomaso engine - now modified again as it was a PITA in the Feroza.
You can get far better results with an aftermarket ECU and a few bucks on a cam - but ignition control is an absolute must.
Just buy the badges - you'l feel more powerful already
There are very few differences between an HD and an HD-E, cam is different, runs coil packs, a knock sensor and a different ECU - so the HD's biggest limitation - lack of adequate timing control is solved
Block, crank, head, rods, pistons etc etc are ALL THE SAME.
Exhaust and inlet are different but of little use in a Feroza, especially as extractors/headers are readily available.
The detomaso makes its power by revving harder and better timing control - a gain yes, but not at all ideal for a Feroza.
Without sounding like the "SEARCH" Nazi's this is a case where it would have worked. I'm running a detomaso engine - now modified again as it was a PITA in the Feroza.
You can get far better results with an aftermarket ECU and a few bucks on a cam - but ignition control is an absolute must.
Just buy the badges - you'l feel more powerful already
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
Sorry MM i did search and came up with a very old thread on the engine that basically stated what you have said however it was said that although the engine is a higher revving one it still makes more HP than the applause down low.
just in terms of cost though if i can get the lot for $300 + postage whihc i can imagine would be around $200 thats still a damn sight cheaper than a cam regrind, computer and then a tune even if i went with a DIY kit like MS i would think?
just in terms of cost though if i can get the lot for $300 + postage whihc i can imagine would be around $200 thats still a damn sight cheaper than a cam regrind, computer and then a tune even if i went with a DIY kit like MS i would think?
80 Series 4.2TD:
4" Lift on 35's, F+R Air Lockers, F+R Barwork, Sliders, Warn Hi-Mount
4" Lift on 35's, F+R Air Lockers, F+R Barwork, Sliders, Warn Hi-Mount
This is going to sound negative, but I'll tell it as I see it - and I've tried lots of options with the HD.
Second hand cam -$20, Grind $100 - I've published the cam specs a number of times, and played with a whole range. I've also got adjustable timing gear fitted so I can advance and retard the cam at will. Frankly cam retard made more torque improvement without sacrificing driveability than the hot cams.
MS Fuel and Spark - depends on if you buy or build, but not expensive, and the information on the connections / sensors etc etc is available - and when you realize you need significantly more power the MS can be used again....
And you still haven't addressed the issue that the engine doesn't really match the vehicle and there's not a lot you can do to re-tune it as the factory ecu is not easily reprogrammable. Start retuning and you just end up back where you started but with Detomaso badges. ( send me $10 and you can have a Detomaso sticker )
If your going to bother doing the work required, then IMO you need substantial gains and anyway you look at it 1600 is just too small for the vehicle. If it was 2 litre then I'd say absolute must, but I just don't think its worth the work.
Fundamentally the HD engine is a short stroke passenger vehicle engine which just happened to end up in the Feroza. They lack what's required - torque at reasonable revs.
And I'd wonder about the quality of the whole package for that sort of $ - still you could put the cam and electronics on what you have if the engines US. The HD-E engine doesn't even look significantly different.
The more I reflect of the whole exercise the less convinced I get. at the most I'd use the electronics.. and get a more tractable cam - the rest hmmmm......
Second hand cam -$20, Grind $100 - I've published the cam specs a number of times, and played with a whole range. I've also got adjustable timing gear fitted so I can advance and retard the cam at will. Frankly cam retard made more torque improvement without sacrificing driveability than the hot cams.
MS Fuel and Spark - depends on if you buy or build, but not expensive, and the information on the connections / sensors etc etc is available - and when you realize you need significantly more power the MS can be used again....
And you still haven't addressed the issue that the engine doesn't really match the vehicle and there's not a lot you can do to re-tune it as the factory ecu is not easily reprogrammable. Start retuning and you just end up back where you started but with Detomaso badges. ( send me $10 and you can have a Detomaso sticker )
If your going to bother doing the work required, then IMO you need substantial gains and anyway you look at it 1600 is just too small for the vehicle. If it was 2 litre then I'd say absolute must, but I just don't think its worth the work.
Fundamentally the HD engine is a short stroke passenger vehicle engine which just happened to end up in the Feroza. They lack what's required - torque at reasonable revs.
And I'd wonder about the quality of the whole package for that sort of $ - still you could put the cam and electronics on what you have if the engines US. The HD-E engine doesn't even look significantly different.
The more I reflect of the whole exercise the less convinced I get. at the most I'd use the electronics.. and get a more tractable cam - the rest hmmmm......
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
thanks MM,
i think i will keep what i have got and when and if i get into he MS world (which i would love to learn) then i will move from there.
out of interest is the MS info still on the forum as i would love to read up on it.
thanks
i think i will keep what i have got and when and if i get into he MS world (which i would love to learn) then i will move from there.
out of interest is the MS info still on the forum as i would love to read up on it.
thanks
80 Series 4.2TD:
4" Lift on 35's, F+R Air Lockers, F+R Barwork, Sliders, Warn Hi-Mount
4" Lift on 35's, F+R Air Lockers, F+R Barwork, Sliders, Warn Hi-Mount
Its at.....http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
Wise choice IMHO, a whole lot of work for very little practical result.
Wise choice IMHO, a whole lot of work for very little practical result.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
The main issue I can see with aftermarket ECU's is the emissions side of things- if you ever get pulled over and caught you'll get defected and have to pay for emissions tests etc. At least with the Detomaso option you've got a full factory system off a car that was approved to be driven on the roads.
David
Yes, but at least it will look like the factory system - you're unlikely for them to pick it up even if they inspect it. Where as aftermarket systems stand out like the proverbial!MightyMouse wrote:But not for that vehicle... so its just as illegal.
may as well have a programmable illegal system as an unprogrammable illegal system.
David
Well that's a matter of opinion - so IMO there's no definitive answer A MS can be connected to the standard underbonnet loom and installed in the original place ... so thats pretty hidden
On the other hand a Detomaso needs extra wiring and has coil packs which cant be hidden.
Even the emissions issue isn't clear the Feroza ECU isn't very smart and an aftermarket system wouldn't find it difficult to equal. The Lambda sensor makes life pretty easy for much of the steady state stuff. Transient is more timeconsuming to do but isn't that difficult.
On the other hand a Detomaso needs extra wiring and has coil packs which cant be hidden.
Even the emissions issue isn't clear the Feroza ECU isn't very smart and an aftermarket system wouldn't find it difficult to equal. The Lambda sensor makes life pretty easy for much of the steady state stuff. Transient is more timeconsuming to do but isn't that difficult.
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
Bottom line is $300 for all that gear is a bargain- and it's all bolt on and doesn't require expensive equipment for programming or paying out for wide band oxy sensors etc.
I've had an aftermarket system (and installed quiet a few many years ago) and they take a lot of time to get things like "cold start" set up properly- sometimes even just to get the engine running!
I've had an aftermarket system (and installed quiet a few many years ago) and they take a lot of time to get things like "cold start" set up properly- sometimes even just to get the engine running!
David
As I sort of said earlier $300 is a bargain if its any good and its very cheap which makes it interesting AND risky.
So what are you getting really that's in advance of a second hand HD engine... a camshaft that's of doubtful value in a Feroza. Coilpacks that are of use, and a non programmable ECU ( BTW the Detomaso is narrow band IIRC - but your comment could be read a couple of ways so ... ). Oh and badges.....
For around those dollars - I still maintain a MS provides better bang for buck and there are lots of example tuning maps available on the MS forum so its far from new territory.
There are other also other sytems ( down as far as kits ) that can provide greater flexibility.
But you are right - expertise is required and so shouldn't be tackled by the uninformed. A non functional Detomaso ecu etc also aint going to be much fun and help is a lot scarcer.
Automotive electronic systems are an area that I'm not exactly uninformed in either
So what are you getting really that's in advance of a second hand HD engine... a camshaft that's of doubtful value in a Feroza. Coilpacks that are of use, and a non programmable ECU ( BTW the Detomaso is narrow band IIRC - but your comment could be read a couple of ways so ... ). Oh and badges.....
For around those dollars - I still maintain a MS provides better bang for buck and there are lots of example tuning maps available on the MS forum so its far from new territory.
There are other also other sytems ( down as far as kits ) that can provide greater flexibility.
But you are right - expertise is required and so shouldn't be tackled by the uninformed. A non functional Detomaso ecu etc also aint going to be much fun and help is a lot scarcer.
Automotive electronic systems are an area that I'm not exactly uninformed in either
( usual disclaimers )
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
It seemed like a much better idea when I started it than it does now.
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