Jimny Supercharged

[JrZook]

Dont think Spike is trying to make a high revin' race car some how mate, and again the issue is tuning, regardless of how much boost is going through. Yea gearing may work but personally Id rather have my engine just off idle and still have the whole rpm band to play with rather than sitting on 2k or greater all day. With the flatter torque curve from a super or even the G16B im sure it'll make a much more drivable offroad rig with controllable acceleration rather than the brisk take up when a turbo gets on song with such a small displacement engine.

Anyways back on track.
Spike how is the thing running now? Pinging still? Have you checked the color of the plugs yet?

Dan

[jonno_racing]

GRPABT1 a few things here that i KNOW...

i have JUST finished turboing a GTI... (i did all pipeing etc, everything from the dump to the cooler mounts.. the only thing i didnt make was the exaust manifold and oil/water cooling lines)

I also made the bracket for spikes supercharger....

NOW.. i can quite easily tell u witch one makes more power... The GTI buy far.. BUT the work involved is at least twice as much... we managed to get the gti running and boosting properly for around $1500... that was everything.. but on top of that was at least 50 man hours... (2 blokes every night for a week + a weekend)...
Also the GTI produces SWEET HP (and sounds awesome) But because of the small compacity its not coming on2 song till 3000rpm...

And i know brenno has not spent anywhere near this figure.. But in the same sentience he isnt aiming for that much h/p, and is also looking for a much different power curve

A blower takes engine power to run and a turbo does not, hence why I said that a turbo will make more power at the same boost, especially your puny blower. HP is torque X revs and I'm willing to bet up high in the revs where suzuki motors can go your blower is running out of puff. So in affect I still stand by the theory a turbo will make more HP than a blower overall on the same psi, however slight that power difference may be in such a small application.

You are also VERY wrong in saying that a turbo takes no power from the engine.. let me explain
When your motor is off boost (labouring/low revs) the turbo itself is creating A lot of back pressure.. its also restricting your inlet.. so in the low revs its actual robbing your engine of its power.. Yes it will make SLIGHTLY more once on boost but not significantly enough to make it worth wile offroad...

And on that note if you wish to discus this plz go back to redline and speak to all the other web wheeling tools that PAY some one to work on there cars so actualy know nothing, but will wank on about them all day.


Rant over

[Spike_Sierra]

Anyways back on track.
Spike how is the thing running now? Pinging still? Have you checked the color of the plugs yet?

Dan

Since adding the FPR, there has been no signs of pinging, and since putting in a lighter valve spring in the BOV, the intake temps are considerably lower. I havn't had time as im part way through end of year exams, however will check condition of plugs soon.

Thanks for you help guys..

[GRPABT1]

And on that note if you wish to discus this plz go back to redline and speak to all the other web wheeling tools that PAY some one to work on there cars so actualy know nothing, but will wank on about them all day.


Rant over

No need to get your knickers in a twist, sorry for having an opinion.

[Spike_Sierra]

update: procrastination kicked in, i took some pics of the plugs.




taken from a spark plug diagnostic site,


Appearance Possible cause/resolution
Normal
Light brown, tan or grey firing end. A good indicator that the plug is functioning correctly and general engine conditions are good.
I know this doesnt mean everything is hunky dory.

[JrZook]

Well at least its not ghost white yet. To try and get an idea whats really happening clean them up a bit or grab a new set and see what color they turn after a run. May be even worth seeing if there's a colder plug you can use.

Dan

[Spike_Sierra]

Well at least its not ghost white yet. To try and get an idea whats really happening clean them up a bit or grab a new set and see what color they turn after a run. May be even worth seeing if there's a colder plug you can use.

Dan

OK, so the condition of the plug is not normal?

Took it for a spin to check pinging, engine intake temps.

Surprisingly, it looses traction on gravel roads at about 75km/h, 3rd gear going in a straight line. which means i have to watch how fat my right foot is getting.

Engine intake temps, bytouching the manifold (ooo how reliable and specific) is marginally higher then a hard run without supercharger fitted. Will have to line up a jarcar kit in the near future to monitor the actual intake temps. I have since found our that the NISMO FPR that i was given was a 1:1 ratio, which means for every pound of boost measured, one extra pound of fuel pressure is given.

I might try looking for a higher rising ratio when purchasing a RRFPR, preferably with a gauge. Maybe 1:4 or 1:7 ish.

Regarding the noise, its quietened it self down alot. I will see in a week or two if i can get a vid of it next to a standard zook to see how loud it is at idle. Might even test out 0-100 times too. Will keep you posted.

[JrZook]

I mean at least its doesn't look like a lean burn ie ghost white. Looks normal, but then again that might just be the build up on the plugs from whenever they were put in, hence the suggestion of cleaning them up or grabbing a new set to see what color the turn after a run. Well if it ain't pinging that's a step ahead.

Dan

[Mud Toy]

I am currently sourcing parts for charging my G13bb in my jimny, its a Sc12 supercharger that i sourced from a good mate, he'll be in on the build aswell. I will be running a small front mount cooler that was a top mount of a Mr2 to combat intake temp dramas.

One question, will the injectors from the swift gti be a straight swap with mine, to combat fueling troubles? If not is there a set that will, like from the g16 ect...?

Otherwise, great thread.....

[FC3892]

thats looking a tad hot, lean to me... ide try a colder plug

[Spike_Sierra]

I am currently sourcing parts for charging my G13bb in my jimny, its a Sc12 supercharger that i sourced from a good mate, he'll be in on the build aswell. I will be running a small front mount cooler that was a top mount of a Mr2 to combat intake temp dramas.

One question, will the injectors from the swift gti be a straight swap with mine, to combat fueling troubles? If not is there a set that will, like from the g16 ect...?

Otherwise, great thread.....

No idea mate, you would have to find the cc rating of the injectors and see if the gti's are actually greater.


Austen - will do, thanks for your knowledgable advise.

[Mud Toy]

Ill look at that, cheers mate.... Thought about putting a intercooler on yours?

[Spike_Sierra]

i did think about it, however the pipes have been staying pretty cool, no where near as bad as they were when it first went on. Dont know an actual temp but its the near enough the same as standard.

[Superduki]

Good work Brenno, cant wait to see this thing in action! Good write up too,

Cheers Superduki.

[money_killer]

any vids of this thing in action yet ?

[Spike_Sierra]

No vids yet, was in march 09 edition of 4WDA custom mag, heading to the west coast of Tas early Dec and will try and get some pics & Vids.

Update: Upgraded to a genuine Sard 1:1 rising rate FPR, as the cheapo Ebay unit was giving up the ghost. Much better to drive, and still has good fuel eco at around 10.5L/100click on 33's and 6.5 gears.

[PJ.zook]

Nice work as usual brenno. Pity none of the slackers here wanted/had-money to do another trip over there this year.

[Spike_Sierra]

Nice work as usual brenno. Pity none of the slackers here wanted/had-money to do another trip over there this year.

Never fear, me and Jimmy will come see you lads sometime in the future...

[flickaz]

GTI injectors are rated around 270cc. I went up to CA18's at 380cc when I turbo'd mine and the duty cycles are really safe at 11.5afr @ 10psi. Depending on boost and how safe you want it I'd probably suggest the GTi injectors may be getting on their limit. As for intake temps the only reliable way is to intercool it. My intercooler (modified RX) kept my temps down around 40 degrees on a dyno on a 41degree day, when the actual turbo output pipe temp was in excess of 80-90 degrees. If you put your hands on the pipes either side of the cooler you'd be amazed how efficient they are!!!

As for the earlier comment about turbo's robbing power and coming on late Id have to say I disagree. If you compensate for the restriction the exhaust housing creates with a free flowing exhaust, coupled with the fact at idle or low rpm the engine is only displacing small amounts of volume you'd find the restriction robs an inconsequential amount. Where the GTI engine falls over with bottom end torque and why people say turbo's dont come on song until 3000rpm is actually a result of the fact the cams are ground for a high revving naturally aspirated engine. The cross over (or lumpyness ) between the inlet and exhaust cams is too great to create the differential pressure between the inlet and exhaust (felt by the turbo as engine load) which spools the turbo. An adjustable cam gear on the inlet side and a matched turbo will see you on boost before 2000rpm, while sacrificing some top end boogy. However I could sacrifice some of my 7800rpm limit for the cause As it was, on 30's and stock 1.3WT T/Case, i could exceed 130Km/h in low range!!!!!!

Just my 2c, from my own experience as my brother and I did the complete install and fabrication of parts ourselves, which was half the fun

[Spike_Sierra]

GTI injectors are rated around 270cc. I went up to CA18's at 380cc when I turbo'd mine and the duty cycles are really safe at 11.5afr @ 10psi. Depending on boost and how safe you want it I'd probably suggest the GTi injectors may be getting on their limit. As for intake temps the only reliable way is to intercool it. My intercooler (modified RX) kept my temps down around 40 degrees on a dyno on a 41degree day, when the actual turbo output pipe temp was in excess of 80-90 degrees. If you put your hands on the pipes either side of the cooler you'd be amazed how efficient they are!!!

As for the earlier comment about turbo's robbing power and coming on late Id have to say I disagree. If you compensate for the restriction the exhaust housing creates with a free flowing exhaust, coupled with the fact at idle or low rpm the engine is only displacing small amounts of volume you'd find the restriction robs an inconsequential amount. Where the GTI engine falls over with bottom end torque and why people say turbo's dont come on song until 3000rpm is actually a result of the fact the cams are ground for a high revving naturally aspirated engine. The cross over (or lumpyness ) between the inlet and exhaust cams is too great to create the differential pressure between the inlet and exhaust (felt by the turbo as engine load) which spools the turbo. An adjustable cam gear on the inlet side and a matched turbo will see you on boost before 2000rpm, while sacrificing some top end boogy. However I could sacrifice some of my 7800rpm limit for the cause As it was, on 30's and stock 1.3WT T/Case, i could exceed 130Km/h in low range!!!!!!

Just my 2c, from my own experience as my brother and I did the complete install and fabrication of parts ourselves, which was half the fun

thanks for you information, but I wasn't quite sure on who you were refering to?
I have standard Jimny injectors, which seem to be fine at this point in time. The intake temps on my supercharged engines arent substantial and i would say are around the 40 degree mark (even less) as there is no heat soak from exhaust gasses, and the 5-6psi pressure isnt increasing the temp of the air enough to cause problems.

Of course this set up could be achieved by spending a bit more cash for new computer, tuning, bigger injectors, but for the price of the set up I have at the moment, and the reliable power I have achieved for over a year is enough in my books to negate the need of the expensive route.
Cost so far

AMR300 supercharger (ebay) $275
brackets - free (fabbed at home)
piping - 2" stainless - free (old cadbury chocolate piping)
1 x 90 degree bend - $22
high pressure hose clamps - $free - thanks dad (usually around $5 each)
Sard Rising Rate FPR - (ebay) $165 inc postage
BOV (recirculative) - $50 from boostcruising forums.
BOV hose + clamps - $10
Lend of a mates Wideband tuner - $carton of froffs
belt - $11

all up around $575 - $600.

[flickaz]

GTI injectors are rated around 270cc. I went up to CA18's at 380cc when I turbo'd mine and the duty cycles are really safe at 11.5afr @ 10psi. Depending on boost and how safe you want it I'd probably suggest the GTi injectors may be getting on their limit. As for intake temps the only reliable way is to intercool it. My intercooler (modified RX) kept my temps down around 40 degrees on a dyno on a 41degree day, when the actual turbo output pipe temp was in excess of 80-90 degrees. If you put your hands on the pipes either side of the cooler you'd be amazed how efficient they are!!!

As for the earlier comment about turbo's robbing power and coming on late Id have to say I disagree. If you compensate for the restriction the exhaust housing creates with a free flowing exhaust, coupled with the fact at idle or low rpm the engine is only displacing small amounts of volume you'd find the restriction robs an inconsequential amount. Where the GTI engine falls over with bottom end torque and why people say turbo's dont come on song until 3000rpm is actually a result of the fact the cams are ground for a high revving naturally aspirated engine. The cross over (or lumpyness ) between the inlet and exhaust cams is too great to create the differential pressure between the inlet and exhaust (felt by the turbo as engine load) which spools the turbo. An adjustable cam gear on the inlet side and a matched turbo will see you on boost before 2000rpm, while sacrificing some top end boogy. However I could sacrifice some of my 7800rpm limit for the cause As it was, on 30's and stock 1.3WT T/Case, i could exceed 130Km/h in low range!!!!!!

Just my 2c, from my own experience as my brother and I did the complete install and fabrication of parts ourselves, which was half the fun

thanks for you information, but I wasn't quite sure on who you were refering to?
I have standard Jimny injectors, which seem to be fine at this point in time. The intake temps on my supercharged engines arent substantial and i would say are around the 40 degree mark (even less) as there is no heat soak from exhaust gasses, and the 5-6psi pressure isnt increasing the temp of the air enough to cause problems.

Of course this set up could be achieved by spending a bit more cash for new computer, tuning, bigger injectors, but for the price of the set up I have at the moment, and the reliable power I have achieved for over a year is enough in my books to negate the need of the expensive route.
Cost so far

AMR300 supercharger (ebay) $275
brackets - free (fabbed at home)
piping - 2" stainless - free (old cadbury chocolate piping)
1 x 90 degree bend - $22
high pressure hose clamps - $free - thanks dad (usually around $5 each)
Sard Rising Rate FPR - (ebay) $165 inc postage
BOV (recirculative) - $50 from boostcruising forums.
BOV hose + clamps - $10
Lend of a mates Wideband tuner - $carton of froffs
belt - $11

all up around $575 - $600.

I wasn't having a go at anyone with my comments, just stating from experience. To be honest Id say what you have for the $$$ you've spent would be a ripper set up. I no doubt can achieve a lot more power but its pointless. Ive found it too be un-usable in a lot of cases (hopefully my gears will help this) apart from blowing off hoon commodore drivers I went the aftermarket computer etc after being talked into it by my brother, however he is notorious for over engineering. I have an sc12 off a 4agze that I've considered fitting to compare but the CBF's kicked in lol. IMHO if you can get it reliable and trust taking it long distances then anything is a step up from the stock donks.

I am very pleased with the end result of my zook, however i had not been talked into it Id probably have stayed away from forced induction or gone an sc12 with electrical clutch.