Are Bigger tires genuinely better

[ferrit]

I just got a job with NPWS to go 4wding near adelaide- theres no other way because its all locked up!

the few places that ARE open close to the city are chewed to crap- but you go further out, where people actually have to put an effort into getting there- Coorong, Little Dip, Beachport, Flinders etc. damage is minimal.

Aand the number of gates ive had to replace with bullbar sized bends in them is just a joke- 3 last week, 4 in the month before that...

[65Mog]

Track damage has more to do with how people drive, not what they drive.

[Ben]

Re tyre size, I had always planned to run 35s on the heep one day, and I'm in the market for new tyres in the short term, but to be honest now I'm locked both ends I've found 33s get me pretty much everywhere guys on 35s go, without problems. The only thing holding me back from harder stuff is the fact I don't have a winch, so I honestly think I'll stick to 33s (things on the heep seem to break a lot less than those on 35s) and just buy a winch.

[bogged]

Aand the number of gates ive had to replace with bullbar sized bends in them is just a joke- 3 last week, 4 in the month before that...

What you need is some tire spikes that come out in a like when the gate is forced.. shred their tires suggest that to management.

[vit94]

I'm new to 4x4ing so this has made interesting reading,
especially since I'm thinking about buying a separete set of tyres just for driving in the bush.
MUDDIES that's what they call an aggresive tyre ( remember I'm new so these are my obsivations , & happy to be corrected ) .
There are 2 types of people who have these - 1/ responible club members who use them for traction hence no wheel spin & 2/ Peope who love mud ( or wet conditions ) and just want to thrase about with out any regard for the enviroment or other peoples future driving wishes .

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:27 am

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Track damage has more to do with how people drive, not what they drive.

I drive a Suzuki - does this mean i shouldn't drive where a Landcrusier does . I don't think so , so from this angle tyre size has nothing to do with it, EXCEPT where there is a person behind the wheel who doesn't have the money to buy lockers or a person who wants to see if he can DO IT before using his lockers.


WHEEL SPIN I've noticed that wheel spin also comes down to money.
The bloke with road tyres or all terrains can't afford the correct tyre .
So you can't just give access to people with the ability to afford the right gear . That's less then 10% of the population. And that's regardless of the size tyre or vechile he's driving.
Sure bigger tyres make deeper ruts but whose to say what's deep. What's the standard. Erosion is erosion, starts of small and keeps going. Generally with the amount of rain fall in a short period of time. So who out there is going to regulate the weather.

How do I summerise this, YES we all need to do something to help the enviroment, I myself love National Parks BUT I also drive a 4x4 , a Suzuki at that. There again its a cost thing, it's made 4x4ing a possability for me. Like the greenies we need to make the people who make laws listen to our needs and requirements - and that will be an on going battle.

It's a bit like smoking really. How does that ruin lives and costs the Nation,
But no-one can actually ban it , SO how can they tell us we can't drive our vechiles in places close to where we live. I think it's our right , a privledge that we need to be responsible with while enjoying.

That's enough dribble GOOD ONE BOGGED

[Gwagensteve]

Vit94, by your own admission you are a newbie, but that's a lot of assumptions and value-laden comments you've put in that post, and I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say.

Anybody who thinks that mud/aggressive tyres allow you to drive "with no wheel spin" is 100% deluded. Once conditions are wet, 90% of the time youll be trying to move the car around though areas of track that offer less traction than the car requires to move forward, so wheelspin is a fact of life.

Perhaps you stay at home if it's wet or only drive in places where you don't, ever, loose traction. That's fine - most of us don't. That doesn't mean we go looking for the wettest conditions to "thrase" about in.

I have no idea what you mean about you shouldn't be driving where a landcruiser does so tyre size has nothing to do with it. Tyre size has everything to do with everything off road. (along with lockers) regardless of what you drive.

I can't make out the rest of your post, and in fact, I don't think you've really grasped what is being discussed here at all. Mostly, it's about where the point of diminishing returns are for LARGER tyres on YOUR car.

Having worked on lots of vitaras, it's probably about 32" or about 6" taller than stock

This board is all about people expressing opinions, but they need to be relevant to the topic- I have no idea what you are trying to express in your post.

Steve.

[RockyF75]

The biggest tires you can physically, safely, and legally fit are the tires you need. End of discussion


So for a zuke that would be 29"s

[joeblow]

I agree. A friend and i went out to Toolangi after the heavy rains in Melbourne recently. I was on 33 simex's and he was on 35. We both drive Bundys which are relativly light. Both have horsepower upgrades. We were the first people in after the rain on all the tracks that we drove. Was a hard core day! Didn,t need to winch once, althougt some of the sections had to be driven quite quick! The tracks that we drove had obvious signs of damage from water running down them....not from tyres! Having said that, as we all have experienced (atleast in wet muddy VIC) getting to a track that a convoy of ten has just been through, and turned back because it was too chopped up, it would seem that increased traffic would be the culprate. I don`t think that big tyres destroy the tracks, I think that it is a combination of traffic and weather.

Ever noticed how popular 4Wdriving has become in recent years! It's time for the sport to become alittle more professional! An idea that I've had floating around for a while; When I go snowboarding, the trails are rated, when I go mountian biking the trails are rated! When I ride (although not for a long time) motor cross, the tracks are rated! If you are in some kind of a race, team sport, at school or whatever, you will be grouped with people of a similar ability! Why not 4wd. If each track had some type of a rating system, i.e. level one std 4wd with good tyres......level 2 higher driver skill and self recovery equipment, etc until say level 5 large aggressive tyres, high level of driver skill, increased suspension travel etc. Most tracks have gates, or are sign posted, the rating and a decription could be attached to that! Further more when tracks are too far gone for even level 5 they can be closed and graded back to level 1. This would give people an indication of where to drive, make public liability less of a problem, and stop people from forming chicken runs because the trail is too tough for their rig, lessening the enviromential impact.

It's about time! Maybe clubs could adopt their local area and implement this!

you make some valid points, and the track rating is a good idea. but we have one problem- the human race! we could put signs up etc, but i'm sure there would be in-breds that would knock em down with thier vehicles. we can't even keep seasonal closure signs up. i can't remember how many we had to straighten last year. i'm sure there is a system we could come up with that would please most people but its the knobs that don't follow the rules that would screw it up for everyone. and i'm not shy to admit i WILL film someone doing the wrong thing and pass it on to the relevant authorities, i want my kids to be able to wheel in the places i have, but the way things are going that looks like it aint gonna happen.

[joeblow]

and on the committee of management with FWDVic..

No offence, but they must do lots in the background, because they dont appear to 99.9% of humanity to be doing fuk all...

The organisation is run by volunteers. Why don't you spent more time doing your bit and less time on here complaining about what they aren't doing.

your on the money bogged!....i know i do my bit...as i'm sure you do to.

[Gwagensteve]

The biggest tires you can physically, safely, and legally fit are the tires you need. End of discussion


So for a zuke that would be 29"s

Or 31's if you drive the right suzuki.

Steve.

[Gutless]

Very Interesting reading here.

Perhaps the solution isn't in regulating the vehicles, but more in teaching the drivers to have respect for their environment and the hobby/ sport which they participate in.

I'm not sure how feasable it would be but perhaps some type of driver education program run through accredited clubs that teaches drivers to take better care of the areas they traverse, and highlights the issues that can potentially be caused by the misuse of thier vehicles.

Pete

[Slunnie]

Very Interesting reading here.

Perhaps the solution isn't in regulating the vehicles, but more in teaching the drivers to have respect for their environment and the hobby/ sport which they participate in.

I'm not sure how feasable it would be but perhaps some type of driver education program run through accredited clubs that teaches drivers to take better care of the areas they traverse, and highlights the issues that can potentially be caused by the misuse of thier vehicles.

Pete

Thats exactly it, its about the attitude - the rest isn't rocket science for most.

[mikmav]

Very Interesting reading here.

Perhaps the solution isn't in regulating the vehicles, but more in teaching the drivers to have respect for their environment and the hobby/ sport which they participate in.

I'm not sure how feasable it would be but perhaps some type of driver education program run through accredited clubs that teaches drivers to take better care of the areas they traverse, and highlights the issues that can potentially be caused by the misuse of thier vehicles.

Pete

the problem is that people who join clubs are typically the more responsible sort that dont need the education so much.. the irresponsible yobbo's will slip though still..

[Rainbow Warrior]

There are 2 types of people who have these - 1/ responible club members who use them for traction hence no wheel spin & 2/ Peope who love mud ( or wet conditions ) and just want to thrase about with out any regard for the enviroment or other peoples future driving wishes .

How do I summerise this, YES we all need to do something to help the enviroment, I myself love National Parks BUT I also drive a 4x4 , a Suzuki at that. There again its a cost thing, it's made 4x4ing a possability for me. Like the greenies we need to make the people who make laws listen to our needs and requirements - and that will be an on going battle.

I like to think there are way more important way to save the enviroment than caring id a dirt track get s a hole in it. It's dirt, it's been getting holes in it before people even walked the earth. Even if a 1foot hole turned intoi an acre of eroded devastation like the greens seem to belive, big deal it's peanuts compared to what we push over in forests every year for golf, courses, football fields and buildings.
Better off to stop buying disposable cars and get one that lasts 10 years.

[Gwagensteve]

Rainbow warrior - I do agree that the amount of land within any area of forest that's affected by 4WD use IS very small, Unfortunately, it's WHERE in the forest it get's damaged that causes the problem.

As 4WDers, we tend to like steep country, where heavy traffic leads to very rapid erosion due to loosening up the surface, and we also tend to gravitate towards creeks, holes and other soft ground.

Logging operations, as an example, can't work within (at least?) 60m of any creek, yet we might wallow about in tracks that run much closer than that, or actually in the creek (even worse)

All that erosion and turbidity in the water ends up somewhere.

When we drive a track, we often give no thought to the effects we're creating downstream or in the future.

I don't want to be a downer about things, but I've seen this first hand in a few places in Vic - a track that had about a 3 foot climb out of a creek 8 years ago now has a 20 foot vertical cliff into the creek. A) the massive erosion to this track area wasn't caused by rainwater runoff - the hill is only another 30ft or so to flat, and B) those hundreds of tonnes of soil have ended up choking the creek at the bottom.

Additionally, a track has been closed due to erosion runoff clogging a creek, which subsequently clogged a farmers dam year after year.

I've seen acres of eroded devestation caused by idiots cutting circles, mostly because there WAS a 1 foot hole there that they couldn't resist hitting it in 2WD and spraying roost everywhere. I've seen it close to melbourne, and I've seen it at 1600m in sensitive alpine areas.

This has nothing to do with the tyre size thing, but regardless of what we drive, or how big out tyres are, we do have to take responsibility for the damage our vehicles can cause whereever or whenever we use them.

I know that with similar HP and a similar sized tyre, my Gwagen has an massive impact on tracks compared to my suzuki, for instance. I've been shocked by how quick and how deep the G can dig.

Steve.

[vit94]

Hi Gwagensteve
I was just summarising other peoples comments , then added an angle at the end ( abit out there I admit ) the thought that there are alot of worse things people do and yet they are not having they're freedom restricted. So instead of fences and gates going up to keep us out of places , we need to work with the relavant people to maintain existing areas and even to create new areas where the effects of what we do are'nt to detramental to the enviroment. Preferable also close to home to minamise our modified vechiles being on the road for extended periods.

I don't think I missed the piont of the thread at all . It started out whether or not bigger tyres are better or 36 + tyres really necessary.
For 4x4ing I would say yes, BUT IN RELATION TO TRACK DAMAGE and deep ruts caused by larger tyres chopping out the tracks - while spinning of course . I don't think so.

What I mean about me not beng allowed to go where a landcrusier can is
directly relating to tyre size. Even a standard Landcrusier has bigger tyres than i can put on my Zook , yet it would struggle against a heavily modified one . So where do you draw line ?? That's why i say it doesn't matter.

OTHERS HAVE SAID

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:39 am


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With BIG tyres, lockers, good long travel suspension and good power you can drive were guys with 33" ripped it up with out disturbing the surface. Its the guys with the small road pattern tyres with no traction aids no recovery gear that are creating all the probs.

GO THE BIG TYRES

Wally


________________________________________
I'm with Wally on this one.

When I had 32" muds we had to spin and snatch our way up Victoria Range Tk in Toolangi, even an 80 series on 35" muds had to winch one section.

Then with 35" Simex and a rear locker, I could just cruise up with very minimal tyre spin.

Unfortuantely there's always going to be people with small road tyres that want to play on the rougher tracks, and end up wheel spinning and digging up the tracks.



agreed, and many big rigs can give us all a bad name.....I have the luxury of chossing to take a basicly bog stock GU on a nice touring trip or the big GQ for an exiting day in the big stuff, but which ever rig goes, spinning the wheels up is a no no for me and askes for more tracks to be closed....as far as legalities, my rig is fully engineerd for the mods and 35" tyres and insured as such

as for mud......why the hell do you want to get covered in mud just to go home and spend $20 at laser wash anyway......it doesn't acheive anything

And it goes on so I'm not sure what i missed.
Either way other people don't like what we do AND will give any reason
to stop it . That's why we need to be responsible and have a voice.

Hope this clarifies what i was trying to say.

[clm434]

I think the "more wankers" argument is pretty close to the mark - but the fact that many of them also have the larger tyres, and are digging the ruts deeper, doesn't help.

Ron Moon, in one of his columns about a year ago, made an argument about the ever spiralling size of tyres. He reasoned that if everybody stuck to a limit (33 or 35, can't remember what he suggested) then we'd reduce the ever increasing erosion and reduce the track closures we're all suffering from.

From memory, he did draw a distinction between road use and competition trucks, and was happy for competition trucks to do their thing under controlled conditions. It was the weekend warriors on 37's making tracks impassable for 31s and 33s...

If we as a community don't regulate ourselves our government will be only too happy to regulate for us.

Scott

You are too intelligent for this country as your answers are too logical and simple.

You have been voted off the island

Seriously though, people just need to stop compensating for small di*k syndrome and learn to drive properly. Myself and a mate went out last weekend, he has a lifted, unlocked hilux with 31x10.5s and live axles, and he couldn't work out how or why an unlocked standard height (extremely low ) ifs Triton on 235/70 r16s could matchand in some cases exceed him rut for rut, uphill, downhill, forwards, backwards and sideways

Also had to pull him out of a sh*t of a bog hole...sideways...up the hill wish I had some pics