What 33s best suit a zook on rocks

[31zook]

Ok 33s no worries, gunna run them. But what type of tyre should i run. I like the look of the simex, but have heard that they have a stiff side wall and won't flex over rocks. After a chat with the tyre shop they said that Bias tyres have very soft side walls and are illegal on road. Is it worth having two sets of tyres or am i likely to get sick of changing em and run 33s everywhere? I REALY LIKE SWAMPERS but not sure how much they cost and am to nervious to ask. Does anyone have a newish set of 33s they would like to sell (or give, im open to tha giving) me? Is there any effective cheap tyres that will work.

Josh

[brendan_h]

sorry to hijack but i am also looking into a true 33 but need it road legal. anyone tell me what is legal and what isnt

[Taff]

sorry to hijack but i am also looking into a true 33 but need it road legal. anyone tell me what is legal and what isnt

yes, they are

[zooker]

31zook, I reckon you should just find a set of normal muddies. Swampers are quite a heavy tyre and would probably need a very low pressure to get them to bag, plus they are friggen expensive and illegal to run onroad (not that you'd want to, dont handle the best from what i've heard ).

Save some money by getting muddies and put it towards some lockers. They will get you further than any fancy tyre

[CanberraMav]

Bias ply tyres dont really have a soft sidewall.

If you want a tyre that is road friendly and good on the rocks i would recommend a Goodyear MTR. These are great on the rocks and you are very soft in the sidewall.

Swampers etc suck on the road and if your only driving rock probably not much better than MTR

[blade 929]

mtrs are legal claws are legal (radial) , any radial would be legal , 33's on a zook legal??? as canberra mav said the mtr's are good on road and on the rock , i personly prefer the micket /t claw , but have found the tyre more prone to side wall damage than the mtr . they bag really good on a light zook .

[zookimal]

It's not illegal to run a bias tyre onroad, as long as it's speed rated. Running a 33in tyre is more of a legality issue for you.

As long as the following requirements are met and you don't increase the Overall Diameter of the tyre by more than allowed in your State, the insurance company won't have any problems with Bias Tyres on a vehicle. They will cover what is road legal.

46—Wheels and tyres—size and capacity
The wheels and tyres fitted to an axle of a vehicle must be of sufficient size and capacity to carry the part of the vehicle's gross mass transmitted to the ground through the axle.
47—Pneumatic tyres generally
A vehicle built after 1932 must be fitted with pneumatic tyres.
48—Pneumatic tyres—carcass construction
(1) A vehicle with a GVM not over 4.5 tonnes must not have pneumatic tyres of different carcass construction fitted to the same axle, but the tyres may have different cord materials and a different number of plies.
(2) However, subrule (1) does not apply to a tyre being used in an emergency as a temporary replacement for a tyre complying with the subrule.
49—Pneumatic tyres—size and capacity
The size and capacity of a pneumatic tyre to be fitted to a vehicle must be decided using a cold inflation pressure that is not more than the lesser of:
(a) the pressure recommended by the tyre manufacturer; and
(b) a pressure of:
(i) for a radial ply tyre—825 kilopascals; or
(ii) for another tyre—700 kilopascals.
50—Tyres—defects
A tyre fitted to a vehicle must be free of any apparent defect that could make the vehicle unsafe.
51—Tyres for use on vehicles with GVM over 4.5 tonnes
(1) A tyre fitted to a vehicle with a GVM over 4.5 tonnes must be suitable for road use at the lesser of:
(a) 100 kilometres an hour; and
(b) the vehicle's top speed.
(2) This rule applies to a vehicle instead of the tyre speed category requirements in the relevant ADR.
52—Tyres—manufacturer's rating
(1) This rule applies to a motor vehicle if the vehicle:
(a) has 4 or more wheels; and
(b) was built after 1972; and
(c) has a GVM not over 4.5 tonnes.
(2) However, this rule does not apply to a tyre if the tyre:
(a) is recommended by the vehicle builder as suitable for limited use on the vehicle in special circumstances at a speed less than the speed applying to the vehicle under subrule (3); or
(b) is being used in an emergency as a temporary replacement for a tyre complying with this rule.
(3) A tyre fitted to a motor vehicle must, when first manufactured, have been rated by the tyre manufacturer as suitable for road use at the lesser of:
(a) a speed of at least:
(i) for a car with special features for off road use—140 kilometres an hour; or
(ii) for another car—180 kilometres an hour; or
(iii) for another motor vehicle—120 kilometres an hour; and
(b) the vehicle's top speed.
Example—
Example for paragraph (a) (i)
A four wheel drive vehicle.
(4) This rule applies to a vehicle instead of the tyre speed category requirements in the relevant ADR.
53—Retreads
(1) A tyre that is retreaded before the commencement of this rule must not be used on a vehicle if:
(a) Australian Standard AS 1973–1976 Retreaded Pneumatic Passenger Car and Light Truck Tyreor Australian Standard AS 1973–1985 Retreaded Pneumatic Passenger and Light Truck Tyre applies to the tyre; and
(b) the tyre was retreaded after publication of the Australian Standard; and
(c) the tyre was not retreaded in accordance with Australian Standard AS 1973–1976 Retreaded Pneumatic Passenger Car and Light Truck Tyre, Australian Standard AS 1973–1985 Retreaded Pneumatic Passenger and Light Truck Tyre or Australian Standard AS 1973–1993 Pneumatic Tyres—Passenger Car, Light Truck and Truck/Bus—Retreading and Repair Processes.
(2) A tyre that is retreaded after the commencement of this rule must not be used on a vehicle if:
(a) Australian Standard AS 1973–1993 Pneumatic Tyres—Passenger Car, Light Truck and Truck/Bus—Retreading and Repair Processes applies to the tyre; and
(b) the tyre was not retreaded in accordance with the Australian Standard.
Note—
The Australian Standards mentioned in this rule require various markings on retreaded tyres. These may include a speed rating less than the rating originally marked on the tyre.
54—Tyre tread
(1) A tyre on a motor vehicle must not have cleats or other gripping devices that could damage road surfaces.
(2) Except at tread wear indicators, a tyre fitted to the vehicle must have a tread pattern at least 1.5 millimetres deep in a band that runs continuously:
(a) across:
(i) for a vehicle with a GVM over 4.5 tonnes—at least 75% of the tyre width that normally comes into contact with the road; or
(ii) for another vehicle—the tyre width that normally comes into contact with the road; and
(b) around the whole circumference of the tyre.
(3) A vehicle must not be fitted with a tyre that has been treated by recutting or regrooving the tread rubber, unless the tyre was:
(a) constructed with an extra thickness of rubber designed for recutting or regrooving; and
(b) labelled to indicate the construction.

I've just highlighted the main points that relate to the legalities of running bias tyres. This shows that a Bias tyre is legal for use under these requirements.
Mickey Thompson and Simex Bias Tyres meet these requirements. Maxxis are load and speed rated however the speed rating is not sufficient (L or 120km/h) to be road legal.

All that aside the Bias isn't designed with road handling and performance on road as a main factor. It's offroad strength and maleability over the terrain is much better though.
For on road manners, look at Radial Construction.
The Yokohama isn't a bad tyre, you will however need to rotate them very regularly as they are a little prone to uneven wear. They are also directional.

Cheers,
Ryano

[badger]

Dont bother worrying about what type of tyre is legal if you want to run a 33
it doesnt exist.
i agree mtrs are great on rock and have awesome road manners. otherwise id try a silverstone or a swamper.
FWIW i recon baha claws could be out performed by the yokohama ht's i run on my 80 series for road use in 99% of qld wheeling conditions. The only thing they do average is go in straight lines in mud. and thye still dont dont do it that well compared to other tyres of the smae price.

[mrRocky]

simex jungle trekkers are awsome on rocks and in mud but your axles will snap like pretzles. loads of traction, i could do most mud holes and rocks in 2wd
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t162 ... 0_0652.flv

[Zook_Fan]

Where does that extract for legalities actually come from? anyone have a link to a Transport site that says the same thing?

[joeblow]

don't worry about the 'tyre' being legal, 33's on zook diffs is never going to be legal anyway.............

[Gwagensteve]

Swampers own rock.

33 12.5 swampers will suck on a sierra. Sierras don't need a 12.5" tyre

33 12.5 is about the worst possible tyre size ever made for off road handling. (closely followed by the 31 10.5) You really want to get close to the old 7.50/16 profile - which means a little bit more sidewall than width. That's tall and narrow.

A wide, short tyre ( in profile) might work beautifully in the middle of summer on dry rock, but so will a highway tyre of any size.

Bias ply tyres are legal.

Bias tyres don't have a soft sidewall. They have an equally firm sidewall and tread. Radial tyres have a very soft sidewall and a very stiff tread. That's why bias tyres work very well offroad - the tread can conform to the terrain.

Swampers are not legal on any car in Australia manufactured after 1972 or something, when the ADR for tyres was introduced.

Swampers drive fine on the road. It's a sierra - there's your problem. Sierra's don't drive fine on the road. A poor handling car with swampers on it will take patience and care to drive.

Simexs are horrible on rock. That's if you ever get to the rock- they probably fell off the rims when you aired down.

I'd run 9/34 16 or 34 9.5 15 swampers or 34 10.5 LTB swampers on 6, 6.5 or 7" rim. ( Obviously the 10.5 will need a 7" rim)

You'll outdrive a car on 33 12.5's and 8" rims easily.

As per zooker though, you can have eleventyfive inch tall megagooblyjoober tyres on triple beadlocked rims made from unobtanium, and get outdriven by a stocker with lockers. ESPECIALLY on rock where you've always got traction.

Is there an effective, cheap tyre that works? Any aggressive 7.50 16, federal couragias.....

Ive been driving on swampers since 1991. I wouldn't own anything else on an offroad car.

Just my 2C. I love rock, but it's never going to be everything you drive, or we'd all be on 35 13.5 Krawlers... or highway tyres... eh Greg

Steve.

[joeblow]

.........silverstones..........................

[hyzook]

don't worry about the 'tyre' being legal, 33's on zook diffs is never going to be legal anyway.............

That would depend on what state your in..........

[blade 929]

Dont bother worrying about what type of tyre is legal if you want to run a 33
it doesnt exist.
i agree mtrs are great on rock and have awesome road manners. otherwise id try a silverstone or a swamper.
FWIW i recon baha claws could be out performed by the yokohama ht's i run on my 80 series for road use in 99% of qld wheeling conditions. The only thing they do average is go in straight lines in mud. and thye still dont dont do it that well compared to other tyres of the smae price.

its a zook not an 80 series , and the claws are good on rock , not just the sticky's either , if the yoko ht can out perform the claws in your enviroment maybe you need to drive something a bit harder than the bunnings carpark

[31zook]

Here is where im up to so all of yall know. Ive got a rear lokka, 6.5.1s (high range set for 33s), 31" goodyear mtrs, 50mm body, Ruf, 50mm rears & longer shocks. My plans are as follows: Rear triangulated 4link, front 3link & panhard, 33" impulse's (seem i have the best rock tyres any how) Cromo axles, brace diffs, front lokka and reinforced T/Case mounts. I am doing a practice run on the standard diffs with 33s and coils then going to do the same all over again with 80series diffs and 35-38s keeping it full body with a small block rover V8 to finish it all off.

Here is a links to my buildup: http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/showt ... hp?t=64306

Josh

[joeblow]

[Gwagensteve]

for sale, unfinished project......


Mate, except for the hideous shackles, you have a tidy, stable and usable sierra.

IF everything you're planning works, you're going to have a car that's going to be as boring as batsh1t to drive. It will be so capable you WILL be bored. Honestly. I've seen a lot of guys with built cars wish they had a sierra like yours is now (except the hideous shackles) so they can actually enjoy driving a track like everyone else.

However, there's a 90% chance it won't work (ever, or properly) and will never actually be finished.

You're obviously a young guy with heaps of enthusiasm - What your planning is a massive massive project and the chances of you finishing it are slim. Sorry, that's just the facts based on 15 years of hearing the same story. By all means tell me I'm wrong, but I'd rather you PROVE me wrong by building a safe, engineered, conservatively designed, all-purpose car.

Go for your life, but remember this thread in 18 months when you're over it, have nothing to drive, no spare cash and wished you'd done a virtual lift, CrMo axles, 33's and just driven it.

Or done nothing at all (except pull off those hideous shackles) and just driven it.

Sorry if this seems harsh. If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone tell me what they are "going to do..." When all they really needed to do was get out there and drive their junk. Take this from someone who builds about a car a year.


PS what's a small block Rover V8? Where do I find a big block rover V8?

[grimbo]

why would you want a SWB Sierra with a V8, 80 Series diffs and 38s? And where exactly do you think you will be driving this in Australia because nowhere will that be legal to drive on the roads. No chance of engineering it at all

[mrRocky]

sorry steve i disagree. Simex JT2's blitz alot of other brands out there especially on a bagooki.

[atari4x4]

whats wrong with his shackels

[mnemonix]

.........silverstones..........................

Great tyres indeed, But I'd hardly recommend these for rocks.
What kind of pressure do you need to get them to bag on a zook?
I've got 33 x 10.5/15 mt117 xtremes on my zook and the amount of bagging does not vary from 40psi down to 10psi. ie: zero.
Given the reputation of this tyre for rolling off the rim, I doubt anyone is going to recommend driving it on less than 10psi.

[atari4x4]

the MT/R's are a great all terrain tyre. i've just recently gone from a 30x9.5 to a 31x10.5 & i seriously think it was more capable when on the 30's!

[Gwagensteve]

Yes they do... but they get owned by swampers, or at least they do here in Vic, and especially on rock.

But it's hard for a JT2 to outperform a swamper when it's lying beside the car because it's fallen off the rim.

Seriously, they just seem so loose on the rims they can't be aired down enough to work. I don't know if it's construction (ie stiffness) or the mould (ie the bead seat area is too big in diameter)

Maybe beadlocked and aired right down they're the business, but I'd put money on swampers generating more bite in more conditions.

I've seen small 'pedes do amazing stuff (heavens, even outperform a swamper) on slick mud, but they also sucked on rock and were about 4 times louder than a swamper on road and didn't handle as well.

JMHO. If you've done well with your JT2's more power to you. They are good, they're just not what they could be in my book.

Steve.

[zookimal]

.........silverstones..........................

Great tyres indeed, But I'd hardly recommend these for rocks.
What kind of pressure do you need to get them to bag on a zook?
I've got 33 x 10.5/15 mt117 xtremes on my zook and the amount of bagging does not vary from 40psi down to 10psi. ie: zero.
Given the reputation of this tyre for rolling off the rim, I doubt anyone is going to recommend driving it on less than 10psi.

When Joe talks silverstones he normally means the radial MT-117 sports

[MUD-PIGSIERRA]

As Gwagon has said look for a skinnier tire if going with a 33" tire as your less likely to run into tires hitting springs on full lock as well, well only just but it all helps.

[BlueSuzy]

Muddys that are cheap. Nankang.

They are Cheap, They Grip, They suit me fine. Shit in wet rock, but i guess every tire is.

Everyone has their own opinion.

Tear a nankang apart..pfft 185 for a 33"..
Tear a everything else = 230 for the 2nd cheapest..300+ for a mt/r, Fark that.

[Pyrotech]

Simexs are horrible on rock. That's if you ever get to the rock- they probably fell off the rims when you aired down.

Steve.

I have to dissagree, my simexs work amazing on rock, providing its not a huge flat smooth slab.

i let them down to 6psi, everytime i go off road, the only time i have had a issue is when u got rock between the bead and rim.

i run 32x10.5x15 on the standard 5.5" sierra rim, and have not rolled a bead are spun a rim..

JUST MY $0.02

[greg]

Just my 2C. I love rock, but it's never going to be everything you drive, or we'd all be on 35 13.5 Krawlers... or highway tyres... eh Greg

You forget that highways are normally constructed using crushed rock... therefore my tyres are awesome on rock

[31zook]

So Gwagensteve hates my shackles, how bout the rest of you? I'd be stupid not to take advice from people who hav spent the time reading this post then replying to it. So lets ditch the coils. I went looking at prices and found that its in the order of multiply thousands and that with my DIY skills.
I found was dropping off a heap of steel for work and noticed a very nice GQ A-Frames, 37s, twin ARBs, really the works. He told me that it felt like crap on road and was boring as off road didn't want to drive it anywhere. Then he said this "I broke a front axle and was stuck i backed down and went for another go on the easy side got stuck noway of backing out. Then a mate in a zook on 30s with twin auto lokkas and extractors drove straight up the hard side and made it look easy."

I guess what im trying to say is that Ive never owned or driven a 4b (hard) before the zook. So im still trying to convince myself that it'll outdrive any stock 30K pootrol or cruiser, which it has, and for a 3rd of the price.

Josh