WILL YOUR 4WD BE LEGAL IF VSB14 IS PASSED?

[smash250]

WILL YOUR 4WD BE LEGAL IF VSB14 IS PASSED?

Below is an email that is being sent around. If you have not seen it, read it, IT is Very important and effects us all!

V2-VSB14 CLOSES FOR PUBLIC COMMENT VERY SOON THE 30TH OF APRIL IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO LOOK AT WHAT IS BEING SAID IN THESE CODES AS THEY EFFECT ALL OF US. PLEASE FILL IN THE SURVEY
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...Uql8FdJw_3d_3d

IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE BELOW EMAIL BEFORE, IT MEANS WE ARE NOT GETTING ENOUGH EXPOSURE. ONLY 50% OF 4WD OWNERS MIGHT LOG ONTO A WEBSITE FORUM, THE OTHERS HAVE NO IDEA THAT FORUMS EXIST OR HOW VSB14 WILL EFFECT THEM!
SO...PLEASE COPY THE EMAIL BELOW AND SEND IT TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND ASK THEM TO SEND IT TO EVERYONE THEY KNOW! ALSO SEND IT TO YOUR MEMBERS OF YOUR 4WD CLUBS, BECAUSE NOT EVEN ALL THE 4WD CLUBS KNOW ABOUT VSB14 AND WHAT IS HAPPENING!
THIS WILL BE A GREAT STEP IN OUR CAMPAIGN AGAINST VSB14. THE SLOGAN OF THE CAMPAIGN IS...

WILL YOUR 4WD BE LEGAL IF VSB14 IS PASSED?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Wheel Drive Industry Association (a division of the MTA WA) is currently reviewing sections of the code of practice regarding modifications of 4WD vehicles and is seeking support from all sectors of the industry in gathering data to assist in re-defining of the regulations in order to make them consistent, workable, reasonable, safe and fair for all.

There are two ways you can contribute:

You are invited to review Version 2 of the Code via the website link below, before Thursday 9 April 2009. Any comments you would like included in the MTA submission to the AMVCB WP can be sent via email to the MTA Division Assistant, Julie Anaru-Johnson.

www.pharosalex.com.au/pages/33achome.html

AND

By completing our Modifications Survey via the link below and answer the questions as indicated. All information is strictly confidential.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...Uql8FdJw_3d_3d

PLEASE CLICK THE SURVEY LINK ABOVE AND FILL IN THE SURVEY THE 4WDING COMMUNITY NEEDS YOU HELP!
Unprepared


THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WILL BE ILLEGAL IF VSB14 PASSED.



4.8L PETROL GU NISSAN PATROL
285/75R16 SIZE TYRES FITTED
2” RAISED SPRINGS

WOULD YOU RISK YOUR FAMILY IN AN UNPREPARED VEHICLE ON A FAMILY TRIP?


VSB14 is expected to affect 85-90% of all 4wds on the road. This email is to support 4wds however VSB14 will also have an effect on other vehicle types as well as it covers all LIGHT VEHICLE CONSTRUCTION AND MODIFICATION. 90% of the public don’t even know about VSB14 as it has not been made public. The public have a right to know that their vehicles could become illegal overnight if this NCOP VSB14 is passed and accepted as law here in WA.

[-Scott-]

Yes.

[Slunnie]

There is already a thread on this:

http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic167575.php

[Skegbudley]

From tha available information. Why will a Patrol with a 2" lift & 285s be illegal?
As far as I can see. V2 makes no mention of suspension or tyres.

Does anybody have the username & password to look at the whole document?

[chimpboy]

From tha available information. Why will a Patrol with a 2" lift & 285s be illegal?
As far as I can see. V2 makes no mention of suspension or tyres.

Does anybody have the username & password to look at the whole document?

The link definitely goes to a word doc that covers suspension and tyres: http://www.pharosalex.com.au/pages/33acs4.html - click the "suspension steering" one.

2" max lift of the body from the ground, so 2" suspension lift would then be the limit and preclude any tyres larger than stock. Assuming there's no stock 33" tyre for a GU that would include the vehicel shown.

[mkpatrol]

Nothing like a bit of scare mongering to get peoples attention

[bogged]

Does anyone have a link to an offical site with this on it?

and 7 out of 10 are illegal now, so just add to it.

Will Bill Gates be giving 10 cents to a homeless pleb in Sth africa with each vote?

[mkpatrol]

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... _ncop.aspx

[shrekman]

This NCOP seems to have been going around for ever and a day. And after looking at the opening section which came into being in January 2006, it definately has.

A couple of things that concern me are the fact that this is refered to as a "live document" and is subject to change. This to me sounds like the goal posts can be moved whenever a suitable arguement is put forward to change a standard. Not necessarily for the better (for us that like to modify that is).

Another problem I see is that this is just a recommendation to the state governing bodies that deal with registration. Not legislation. So once again we are back to individual interpretation in each state. The the fact that a vehice which has been "legal" in the past can become illegal because of changes to the NCOP worries me. To quote the document

"regulations pertaining to vehicle modifications, vehicle standards or registration policy may change causing certain vehicle modifications to become unacceptable in the future"

So a vehicle which has been ok in the past may not be in the future, and it is our responsibllity to keep up with these changes.

I have no problem with a set of rules for modifications that we have to abide by. I just want these rules to be consistent across the country, and to be reasonable.

[Harb]

Well, Id say we are all farked........
The do gooders and tree huggers will no doubt get their bit in as well and we can all go and buy a pushbike.

Not to keen on their survey either...... might as well invite them around to defect you for your mods.

This is all a load of crock..... fact remains that very very few accidents are caused by modded 4wd's.
They still dont get it that its the idiot behind the wheel that causes the problems.

This is just a cheaper way for them to get things done rather than put up gates.

[Gonzo]

I've said it before and i'll say it again. Buy a Unimog and get legal 42's

[DamTriton]

Can we please confine all further comments on this subject to this thread.

There is no point having two threads about the same letter/topic.

[matto]

if you have you car engineered for the lift 150mm will it stil be outlawed?

[frp88]

of course this should be illegal it's a Nissan take them all of the road

[Disco1Modified]

Have a read at the news item on the website below to get some REAL information

http://www.fwdvictoria.org.au/default0.asp

"VEHICLE STANDARDS BULLETIN 14 - UPDATE (12/02/2009) [ more ]...


On Tuesday 10th February, Michael Coldham and Milton Oliver met with the Chief of Staff (Cressida Wall) for the Minister for Roads Tim Pallis and Ross McArthur and Barry Hendry from VicRoads to discuss the Vehicle Standards Bulletin (VSB) 14 and the implications on our members......."

[mkpatrol]

I still fail to see how the above vehicle will be rendered unroad worthy because of VSB14 other than tyre sise..

[-Scott-]

Have a read at the news item on the website below to get some REAL information

http://www.fwdvictoria.org.au/default0.asp

"VEHICLE STANDARDS BULLETIN 14 - UPDATE (12/02/2009) [ more ]...

I couldn't find the article in question on the above link - it was one page further down; the guts of it all is here.

The contents of that article are reasonably encouraging, although I'm a little perturbed by two comments:

It was pointed out that FWDV represents 15,000 members of our Association, who were the only group affected by this policy.

ONLY group affected? Some may claim that I'm splitting hairs, but I do not believe that FWDV are the ONLY group affected by this "policy", and I'm fairly confident that others will feel the same way.

So what?

This claim is an exaggeration, obvious to anybody with half a clue - there are other groups affected by the proposed National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Modifications. Once this is claim is identified as an exaggeration, every other claim made by the same source must be treated with suspicion. I believe it harms the source's credibility, and possibly the credibility of others who use similar arguments - there's the risk of all 4wd groups (not just in Victoria) being "tarred with the same brush."

Then we have

This drew a sharp response from Ms Wall, who declared that no code of practice would become law unless peak bodies and key stakeholders had been “properly and genuinely” consulted.

Again, this sounds encouraging. Except Ms Wall may now have decided that Four Wheel Drive Victoria are prone to exaggeration, and as such conclude that they are not truly a "peak body" worthy of "proper and genuine" consultation. After all, if nobody else nominates them as such, why should she believe anything which comes from a group which may be prone to exaggeration and self-aggrandisement?

[Z()LTAN]

tyre sise..

well thats why

[ddr]

tyre sise..

well thats why

50mm tyre increase is allowed so why would that increase make it illegal?

The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to an off-road passenger vehicle or a commercial vehicle must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model

[Disco1Modified]

Scot - thanks for fixing the link

I think the conclusions you are coming to are WAY off track (excuse the pun).

I know there are others making significant efforts and submissions to stop this stupid legislation going through.

I posted the link to indicate that some people/groups are managing to get face to face with the people that actually make a difference when it comes to legislation.
These forums are great for swapping ideas, opinions and trip notes but do SFA when it comes to legislation.

.... oh yeah gQ's are better than Toyo's are better than disco's are better than ... are better than ... are better than ...............

some people actually try to make a difference.

[-Scott-]

some people actually try to make a difference.

I wasn't suggesting they should stop trying.

My point is that these people are literally playing politics: it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Give politicians (by which I mean not only elected representatives, but their staff too) half a chance and they will place their own spin on anything. "Spin doctors" don't earn good money just because they're good looking - the choice of words can make a massive difference to how the intended message is received.

Self-aggrandisement doesn't help.

Think of it as signal to noise ratio. Too much noise and the signal is lost. Self-aggrandisement is noise - if the receiver focuses on the noise they may miss the message - however important or well-intentioned that message may be.

[mkpatrol]

tyre sise..

well thats why

50mm tyre increase is allowed so why would that increase make it illegal?

The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to an off-road passenger vehicle or a commercial vehicle must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model

Exactly

I still think the OP is propaganda.

Your bullbar makes the vehicle unroadworthy as it affects the visibilty angles onf ADR13.

Every body adds parkers & indicators to fix that part but no one moves the head lamps.

Without any more info that is tha only thing that I can see that would affect roadworthyness.

Maybe its overloaded?

[smash250]

Background info.

Approx 4-3 years ago the Dpi which at the time was being headed by John Dombrose, drafted the document which is now known as VSB14.

At the time very few people even knew about it existence and the ones which did, thought it was so ridiculous it would never grow into something more.

Then approx 3 years ago the document written by John Dombrose VSB14 came into effect in WA, Victoria and Queensland for a 3 year trail period, where VSB14 was NOT law, however it was an Adopted code of the NCOP which they were to enforce. Queensland and Victoria where enforced a lot harder than here in WA, where it seemed to matter who you knew and how determine you were to get your modified vehicle permitted or not.

As the years tick by the DPI cracked down further upon enforcing VSB14 and started telling people it was law, when in fact it is not.
The DPI started to let fewer people pass there vehicles.
Also John Dombrose Retired from the DPI and started his own engineering company.

Now in 2009 we are faced with a situation which some knew was coming but most believed it would 'NEVER' happen. VSB14 is being groomed for legislation in parliament for the 1st of July.
Currently VSB14 is being REVISED and the revised version is called V2 VSB14.

UNDER V2 VSB14 Any modification will require you to.......

1. Written request to modify to DPI
2. If Modification approved you can then take your written aproval to a store,i.e tyre store, fuel tank store, dual battery store and show them you have approval before they can install the said modified item.
3. Then you may need to take the vehicle to an engineer to have the modification engineered and preform any associated test's
4. Then take your vehicle back to DPI "PITS" to have vehicle inspected where you will then be issued with permit for said modification if they deem it to be to their standards.

UNDER V2 VSB14 ANY MODIFICATION MEANS ANY MODIFICATION. This means it does not just effect people with lifted vehicles and bigger tyres, It means people with dual battery systems, long rang fuel tanks, spot lights, re-draw and cargo barrier systems, water tank systems, roof top tent systems, air bag suspension systems.
VSB14 will effect everyone!

Before V2 VSB14 can be passed It must be inspected and scruteneered by a PRIVATE INDEPENDENT COMPANY BY LAW. However the private independent company which is scruteneering V2 VSB14 is Owned and run by John DOMBROSE the aurthor of VSB14!
Who ever thought the goverment would let this sort of thing happen? Its like giving somebody a test and then saying
"oh you mark your own"

And now we are in a position where we have a small group of people actively trying to stop VSB14 and V2 VSB14 form getting into parliament and a large number of people who either, don't know about VSB14 & V2 VSB14 or know about it but have an attitude of "Oh it wont happen" But unless people start helping the few of us that are fighting this battle , It will happen and you all will have illegal vehicles overnight.


what you can do to help.

Write a HAND WRITTEN letter to the minister of transport outlining your situation and how VSB14 is going to effect you.

* In your letter ask if the minister is aware of VSB14?

* Ask if he is aware of the impact VSB14 is going to have on private vehicles and also businesses like.. Perth 4x4, ARB, 4WD USA, COASTAL 4WD CENTER, ALL THE TYRE SHOPS, BATTERY STORES, CAMPING STORES, ENGINEERING COMPANY'S. A lot of these businesses might need to close their doors if VSB14 & V2 VSB14 is passed.
* Also as him if he could publicly announce his position on VSB14 & VSB14 V2


EXAMPLE: You are retired and are caravanning around Australia. You have had long rang fuel tanks,spot lights, dual batteries fitted and also heavy duty springs which equates to a 50mm lift for towing your caravan. you will be effected and you vehicle will be illegally modified under V2 VSB14.

It is every important that the letter be HAND WRITTEN.

Also you should write two of the same letters and address one to each of the minister below.

1. HONORABLE JOHN DAY 13 FLOOR DUMAS HOUSE 2 HAVELOCK ST WEST PERTH. 6005
2. HONORABLE SIMON O'BRIEN 13 FLOOR DUMAS HOUSE 2 HAVELOCK ST WEST PERTH. 6005


If you are in a 4wd club you president will be asking you to do the same as this or similar, this notice is more for people who are not in clubs and do not hear what is really going on.

[bogged]

UNDER V2 VSB14 ANY MODIFICATION MEANS ANY MODIFICATION. This means it does not just effect people with lifted vehicles and bigger tyres, It means people with dual battery systems, long rang fuel tanks, spot lights, re-draw and cargo barrier systems, water tank systems, roof top tent systems, air bag suspension systems.
VSB14 will effect everyone!

so that means Falcadores with Rhino racks/boxes are also affected? Cant see it personally. Sounds like a load of shit...

[Bluefreak]

Allianz are already quoting the NCOP - when I went in to get new boots for the Triton, they had to ring Leaseplan to get approval - as the tyres were over OEM size, Leaseplan handballed to Allianz and they put it in black and white - words to the effect of "According to the NCOP a 50mm increase in tyre size is permitted, as the replacement tyres increase diameter by 26mm we are satisfied and give approval for fitment"

[jop]

Go bigger blue and get more leather

[mkpatrol]

Here is the intent of V2 VSB14:

INTENT
The aim of the NCOP is to provide a nationally acceptable set of technical specifications that ensure that the manufacture of ICVs or the modification of production vehicles comply with the applicable requirements of the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) and the Australian Vehicle Standards Rules 1999 (AVSR).

"dual battery systems, long rang fuel tanks, spot lights, re-draw and cargo barrier systems, water tank systems, roof top tent systems, air bag suspension systems. "

These sorts of things are not covered in the ADR's other than the spot lights.


Here is a direct cut from the scope of VSB14:

3.12 MINOR MODIFICATIONS TO PRODUCTION VEHICLES THAT DO NOT REQUIRE PRIOR APPROVAL
The following modifications may be performed without reference to a Registering Authority, except where there is a change in the vehicle’s description on the register - e.g. engine number or vehicle colour.
Any modification or the fitting of a device must not contravene the requirements of the Australian Vehicle Standards Rules or any of the general safety provisions.
Items must also be fitted in accordance with the item manufacturer’s instructions or specifications and must comply with accepted engineering standards and practices.
Minor Modifications to Production Vehicle that do not Require Prior Approval
• Additional lighting (e.g. driving lights and fog lamps)
• Aerials that do not obscure drivers view
• Air conditioning
• Air horn of a single tone
• Air shock absorbers provided that the vehicle maintains its original attitude
• Alarm systems
• Rear mounted removable bicycle racks
• Mudguard flares that are flexible
• Gauges internally located on the dash
• Markings, paintings, sign writing, stripes, (prism pattern) film on bodywork that do not reflect excessive light
• Mesh stone shields for windscreen and lamps
• Radios and additional speakers
• Rear vision mirrors
• Roof racks
• Sun-visors (exterior)
• Tow bars
• Wheel chair carriers (roof top type only)
NOTE: The above section does not apply when the modification or the fitting of any device involves structural changes to the original vehicle, encroachment into occupant protection areas or any reduction in the effectiveness of safety related areas. In these cases formal prior approval must be sought.
Repairs or direct replacements are not considered to be modifications and therefore do not require reference to Registering Authorities.
Under certain specific conditions, other modifications may not require reference to Registering Authorities. These are detailed in each section of this NCOP.



Here is a list of people involved, also a direct copy from the VSB14 V2:

ACKNOWLEDGMENT (REVISION 2)
The second revision of the NCOP was prepared and developed in consultation with a large number of individuals, industry groups, user groups and government agencies with an interest in light vehicle construction and modification.
To this end, the members of the Australian Motor Vehicle Certification Board Working Party wish to thank all the organisations, user groups and individuals across Australia who assisted in the review of this National Code of Practice. The assistance offered in accomplishing this task has been greatly appreciated.

Members of the AMVCB WP also wish to acknowledge the key role played by:
Project Consultant John Dombrose

Members of the AMVCB WP during the final approval process:-
Barry Hendry VicRoads (Vic)
Dan Leavy RTA (NSW)
Peter Hunter DUS (ACT)
Rickman Smith DTEI (SA)
Alan Everingham Queensland Transport (Qld)
Simon Saunders DPI (NT)
Tony Beard DIER (Tas)
Rex Middleton DPI (WA)
John Marcolina DPI (WA)
Others assisting in the process included Dr Gray Scott (representing VicRoads), Rex Scholar (Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government), Barry Craig (RTA NSW), John Wilson (DIER (Tas)), Wayne Lo (DPI NT)


While John Dombrose is involved he does not have all the say in the finished procuct, all the states have a finger in the pie.

I really think the OP has nothing to do with any other state other than WA.
VSB14 doesnt restrict ALL modifications, the document itself says so.

While I realise there is a need for people to be aware of changes to this document, miss information is unforgivable.

[Bluefreak]

Go bigger blue and get more leather

Can a man find peace nowhere...???

[Batty]

And now we are in a position where we have a small group of people actively trying to stop VSB14 and V2 VSB14 form getting into parliament and a large number of people who either, don't know about VSB14 & V2 VSB14 or know about it but have an attitude of "Oh it wont happen" But unless people start helping the few of us that are fighting this battle , It will happen and you all will have illegal vehicles overnight.

VSB14 will not be stopped. In fact it shouldnt be stopped, it is actually a good thing (in principle). Quite alot of its content needs to be changed, there is no doubt about that, but stopping it would be a bad idea.

Also cars will not be made illeagal overnight, unless they were already illeagal. If your vehicle is currently engineered, then you have nothing to worry about.

Batty
4WD Action

[bogged]

Can a man find peace nowhere...???

Barkly??