turboing a 5l diesel efi on a budjet

[stufftheifs-]

does anyone know whats involved in turboing a 5l diesel ..? is there any other manifold that'll fit straight on ? was thinking of running a surf turbo just for bottom end grunt will it work ?

[Mr DJ]

Yep, Surf 2.4 manifolds will bolt up.

[tweak'e]

if i remember rightly the 5l has more power than 2lt does in stock form.
your realy going to be pushing the little turbo. it may be good at low rpm but i would expect to loose the top end.
mayby fit an adaptor and a different turbo.

[ferrit]

if i remember rightly the 5l has more power than 2lt does in stock form.
your realy going to be pushing the little turbo. it may be good at low rpm but i would expect to loose the top end.
mayby fit an adaptor and a different turbo.

strangely enough, the 1KZ-TE Kicks both the 5L and 2LT's arses, and its little CT12b turbo is tiny!

[thehanko]

Alot of people think the ct 20 wont handle the 5L, but im pretty sure it would be fine.

sure its an old turbo design and all that, but it makes a huge and i mean huge difference to the 2.8L so surely the massive .2L bigger bore will not strain it past the point of worth while.

It will spool up early which will be great and unless you love pushing engines where they dont want to go in this case over 3000rpm very often then it will be fine.

just do it, it will be the best $700 odd dollars you will ever spend!

I even have a ct20 you can have for $50 and off you go.

[tweak'e]

a lot depends on what turbine and compessor is used.
i would prefer CT12b over CT20. turbo off a 3 litre onto a 3 litre will be a better match.
my concern with the CT20 is the 2.8 tend to run out of puff at 3000rpm, a bigger motor is highly likly to be worse. not the best if your usually pulling over 3k rpm.

the other thing i should have asked is what are you doing for fueling?
i'm not sure if the ECU allows for fueling with boost or not.

[gotoy]

Ct20 is too small for the 5l engine.

Use the CT26 turbo.

[thehanko]

my concern with the CT20 is the 2.8 tend to run out of puff at 3000rpm, a bigger motor is highly likly to be worse. not the best if your usually pulling over 3k rpm.

these engines dont perfrom at their best over 3k regardless of turbos. and who drives these Diesels and is usually pulling more than 3k?

I would go past 3k maybe twice a month, only on very steep hills trying to push for the next gear.

Another point is that the poster asked for a budget option. You can pick up these kits for $500 and your away.

sure there are better options out there but not at the same budget. im sure spending $3k would get a better set up, but considering the huge improvement you can get from the ct20 I dont see another option.

The question of the ecu controlling the fuel pump is a good one thought im sure it would still be better.

[tweak'e]

my 2.8 sits at 3200 rpm @ 100km with stock gearing. i'm fairly certain the 5L version is similar. hilux has different gearing but same motor.
the L series is a little weird in that max torque is usually way up high for a diesel.
these are not the big torque down low type diesels. they will happily sit at 3-4k all day long (apart from drinking fuel).
next time you see a courier van cruising down the motorway at 120kmh you know hes going to be sitting on max rpm

i just hope the ecu doesn't have a low boost cutout. otherwise boost cut defender and tweak the fuel a bit.

[Micky-Lux]

Eh? You can't rev them past 3000???

At 100km/h, my 5L is doing at or around 3000rpm. At 110, it's doing around 3200.

By the specifications:

Maximum power:
5L......... 65kW @ 4000rpm
5LE....... 71kW @ 4000rpm

Maximum Torque:
5L.......... 197Nm @ 2700rpm
5LE........ 200Nm @ 2600rpm

That's straight out of the Toyota workshop manual. Why would they quote the maximum power at an engine speed that was unachievable?

I don't think 3000rpm (or 3500rpm for that matter) under load will kill it.
I wouldn't be suprised though if a 5L shat itself running over 4000rpm for extended length of time though. I don't think free reving them does any good either.

Anyway, the boost on a ct20 turbo should be controlled by the wastegate. The question is, how hard would a ct20 have to push to maintain maximum boost under load at highway speed?

In theory, they should be great for bush and low rpm work as they'd spool up pretty quick.

[ferrit]

Ct20 is too small for the 5l engine.

Use the CT26 turbo.

CT26 is waaay too big for a little 4 pot diesel- you've got another 1.2L of gas flow driving the CT26 on a 1HD series motor.

The CT12b off a KZ motor spools up at around 1200 rpm, i'd doubt you'd get a CT26 on a 5L to spool before 2500rpm if you bolted it on.

[KiwiBacon]

Get an adapter and take your pic of turbos.

I agree that the CT20 is going to be s tretched a little, the CT26 is too big. The CT12B if you want to go toyota is the one to pick.

If you don't want to go toyota, here's a CT26-T25 adapter plate design, the CT20 is similar, PM me and I'll send the drawings.

[thehanko]

Im not saying it wont go over 3000rpm, it just doesnt need to.

it may well be that the turbo runs out of puff at 3k but i dont get better power over 3k than i get at say 2400 so why make the extra noise?

im amased how high yours revs at 100km/h.

i have 32inch tyres which makes a massive 3.5% difference compared to the stock 31's but i sit more like 2600 for 100ks and can sit on 120 at about 3000rpm.

what diff ratio do you have? perhaps petrol diffs.

I guess the way i drive my car makes sence, i just use the torque and cruise along im not usually in a rush so i tend to drive 2-2500 rpm normally then a bit higher to crusie on the hwy. so for me i dont feel limited by the ct20 at all.

I personally feel the ct20 does a great budget and bolt up job and think it would work just as well on the 5L.

my 2c

[daveo]

my 5l revs at just on 3000 at 100km/h with 31s, as does a mates. pretty sure thats normal.

how hard is it to source a 2nd hand ct12b?

[Micky-Lux]

Hey thehanko,

I've got 32" Maxxis Bighorns, and standard 4.56 diffs. Yep, definately 3000rpm @ 100km/h.

I've got a denco turbo kit (Schwitzer S1B turbo, mandrel bent 2.5" exhaust straight from the turbo, single hotdog, no muffler, K&N filter, snorkel, etc, etc), and I find I make more horsepower from 2500 upwards. I still have plenty of low down torque, but it seems the nature of the denco kits, they make about 4psi boost at 1500 or so, then it steadily climbs to 10psi at about 2700rpm. So between 2700 and say 3300, it's making respectable horsepower where I need it for towing on the highway.

I do agree though, the ct20 is a good budget job. It's certainly going to make an improvement of some sort from what I've seen. And from what I understand, being a smaller turbo, they should provide more boost at lower rpm than the S1B, therefore more lower rpm torque.

[Micky-Lux]

I just noticed this post:

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/ft ... highlight=

Might be something to look into...

[KiwiBacon]

So how about fooling the ECU into delivering more fuel?
Does the 5L use the standard VP37 (or whatever) which you can splice four wires into an adjustable tuning box?

Because I have a work car that needs similar treatment. Turbo, then trick the ECU with something adjustable so I can tune it myself.

[Mr DJ]

Just realised you have a 5LE not a 5L, so you may be able to use an ECU from a manual 2LTE + turbo & manifolds, bolt it all up and run sweet with the ECU adding more fuel as required by the turbo.
The 5LE has a CAS which is the input required by the ECU to work properly !!

Anyone think of a good reason this won't work ???

[Dingo]

Matching up a hole load of sensors from a 5LE to a 2LT-E ECU may be a daunting task and just one out may trigger it to limp mode. Could probably be done by someone with a bit of electrical know how. but that's going to cost $$.

Then again may be lucky and it swaps straight in give the right signals to delivers enough fuel.
Would also need a boost sensor installed and a few other sensors the 5LE probably won't have. (it's too early and I can't think yet)

[thehanko]

Hey thehanko,

I've got 32" Maxxis Bighorns, and standard 4.56 diffs. Yep, definately 3000rpm @ 100km/h.

I've got a denco turbo kit (Schwitzer S1B turbo, mandrel bent 2.5" exhaust straight from the turbo, single hotdog, no muffler, K&N filter, snorkel, etc, etc), and I find I make more horsepower from 2500 upwards. I still have plenty of low down torque, but it seems the nature of the denco kits, they make about 4psi boost at 1500 or so, then it steadily climbs to 10psi at about 2700rpm. So between 2700 and say 3300, it's making respectable horsepower where I need it for towing on the highway.

I do agree though, the ct20 is a good budget job. It's certainly going to make an improvement of some sort from what I've seen. And from what I understand, being a smaller turbo, they should provide more boost at lower rpm than the S1B, therefore more lower rpm torque.

interesting i just checked mine, they are 4.3.

[granborismo]

righto. My 2.8 with intercooled Ct 20, 10psi , 4.3 diffs (standard 4x4 diesel), running 33" rubber, sits on about 2850 rpm at 110. previously with 31"s about 3100 - 3200.
The Ct 20 hits full boost about 1500 rpm and holds full boost till say 3200 with foot down, then it has nothing,
but then again i have never seen a 2.8 have any power or be able to accelerate above 3400rpm and increase speed..

for a bang for you buck idea, i would put one on a 5L,
i know i'd rather spend 1/5th the price for the same performance, as all N/A L series motors are Hopeless without a turbo.

[Micky-Lux]

I wouldn't say the L series are "hopeless"...

Maybe not terribly mind-blowing, but not hopeless.

I must say, I didn't have to worry about the ECU on mine. I've got the semi-submersible (non-E) version.

[stufftheifs-]

I wouldn't say the L series are "hopeless"...

Maybe not terribly mind-blowing, but not hopeless.

I must say, I didn't have to worry about the ECU on mine. I've got the semi-submersible (non-E) version.

this is the same as mine i think its a 2001 5l efi ........ as for revving at 3'500 mine sits on 2900 at 110 on the freeway .. and will rev to 5g easily non turbo .. i have 37inch m/t on 17's with 4:88 gearing , it doesnt seam underpowered on the flat gound but could do with a little more bottom end on hills

[stufftheifs-]

righto. My 2.8 with intercooled Ct 20, 10psi , 4.3 diffs (standard 4x4 diesel), running 33" rubber, sits on about 2850 rpm at 110. previously with 31"s about 3100 - 3200.
The Ct 20 hits full boost about 1500 rpm and holds full boost till say 3200 with foot down, then it has nothing,
but then again i have never seen a 2.8 have any power or be able to accelerate above 3400rpm and increase speed..

for a bang for you buck idea, i would put one on a 5L,
i know i'd rather spend 1/5th the price for the same performance, as all N/A L series motors are Hopeless without a turbo.

this is the same as mine i think its a 2001 5l efi ........ as for revving at 3'500 mine sits on 2900 at 110 on the freeway .. and will rev to 5g easily non turbo .. i have 37inch m/t on 17's with 4:88 gearing , it doesnt seam underpowered on the flat gound but could do with a little more bottom end on hills ,

[stufftheifs-]

Matching up a hole load of sensors from a 5LE to a 2LT-E ECU may be a daunting task and just one out may trigger it to limp mode. Could probably be done by someone with a bit of electrical know how. but that's going to cost $$.

Then again may be lucky and it swaps straight in give the right signals to delivers enough fuel.
Would also need a boost sensor installed and a few other sensors the 5LE probably won't have. (it's too early and I can't think yet)

what about using the chip from the dynamics turbo kit to combat this , or even a diesel tune handset ......

[stufftheifs-]

hi mate i may take you up on this offer , i no means want a speed machine just a little more down low ,,, and a little more hill climbimg power with out spendin the national debt ive already blown my budjet on suspension and wheels ... what manifold would i use someone mentioned the 24 fits on ?

Alot of people think the ct 20 wont handle the 5L, but im pretty sure it would be fine.

sure its an old turbo design and all that, but it makes a huge and i mean huge difference to the 2.8L so surely the massive .2L bigger bore will not strain it past the point of worth while.

It will spool up early which will be great and unless you love pushing engines where they dont want to go in this case over 3000rpm very often then it will be fine.

just do it, it will be the best $700 odd dollars you will ever spend!

I even have a ct20 you can have for $50 and off you go.

[granborismo]

yeah 2.4 manifold fits as long as its not off the early 2.4 with the alloy rocker cover..
here is a link (if it works) of a decent anstall on a 3l..
http://4wheeling.ca/board/showthread.ph ... ight=turbo

[Luxsmith]

Just realised you have a 5LE not a 5L, so you may be able to use an ECU from a manual 2LTE + turbo & manifolds, bolt it all up and run sweet with the ECU adding more fuel as required by the turbo.
The 5LE has a CAS which is the input required by the ECU to work properly !!

Anyone think of a good reason this won't work ???

I'm attempting to fit the 2LTE turbo kit to a 5LE and the ECU doesn't just plug in. Not enough plugs.

Trying to find out if a power module or chip compensates for extra fuel required under boost???