Water/methanol injection question

[Samba82]

Has anyone used or got any feed back for a company called Coolingmist? What kits have you guys used or know of? Is going on a td42
Cheers for the help
Sam

[bogged]

ya only need to post it up once..

[vn15]

Have a kit from Snow Performance, Stage 1 kit, no fancy electonics to go wrong, adjusted to inject at 15psi, works very well, so happy with it. Noticeable seat of the pants feeling.

Folowing engine mods on it, RD28T enigne(was only option here)
big GT2871R.86AR bb turbo
12mm plunger from a german made MAN truck. pump is set up to delivers 100cc of fuel.
injectors set to 155ats
3" dump/exhaust
custom plenum chamber( velocity stacks inside)
3" IC pipes
Big FMIC
Powershot LPG injection
Snow Performance Water/meth injection
Big kn airfilter
Exedy xtreme clutch


Cheers

[300WinMag]

Have you dyno tuned it?
If so what results, RWKW and EGTS.
What % methanol are you using.

[zuffen]

I run a Snow BoostCooler Stage II kit.

Starts pumping at 5psi and at full flight at 15psi. Total boost is 21psi.

Supercharged Lexus.

Definitely can see the difference in intake air temps.

I don't have before and after figures but I expect to carry quite a bit more advance.

Yet to finish dyno tune so can't post numbers.

[Dzltec]

Yes water/meth works, tried it about 5 years ago. You generally use a 50/50 mix. It will make more power and keep egts down. The snow kit with a variable controller is the best. It allows for a wide range of tuning.


Andy

[cycomut]

where could u get one of these kits in Aus.

Thx

[Samba82]

Yeh mate Northside 4x4 in caboolture sell a few kits or you can just order over the net
http://www.northside4x4.com.au/

[cycomut]

thx mate, hopefully when my turbo gets installed they might finish the site =)

[jessie928]

i used to have a home made kit in my turbo sigma the early 90's it ran about 18psi with origional bottom end. when i ran out of the 50/50 water metho mix it woudl blow the bottom end,
it only happened twice

[cycomut]

=) sounds fun, how long does the mix last before u need to refill it.

[tweak'e]

check out
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
i think there is a 4.2 done, look in the forum.

how much depends a lot on setup and if you have it on at cruise.
if you want economy from it you will need to run it almost al the time which means you will need a sizable tank.
i was looking at doing the navara, in theroy properly use 20l per tank of fuel for highway driving.

[KiwiBacon]

Have a kit from Snow Performance, Stage 1 kit, no fancy electonics to go wrong, adjusted to inject at 15psi, works very well, so happy with it. Noticeable seat of the pants feeling.

Folowing engine mods on it, RD28T enigne(was only option here)
big GT2871R.86AR bb turbo
12mm plunger from a german made MAN truck. pump is set up to delivers 100cc of fuel.
injectors set to 155ats
3" dump/exhaust
custom plenum chamber( velocity stacks inside)
3" IC pipes
Big FMIC
Powershot LPG injection
Snow Performance Water/meth injection
Big kn airfilter
Exedy xtreme clutch


Cheers

If you are running 100cc/1000 shots on a 6 cyl then you'd be pushing over 600Nm.
It'd take over 60psi to get enough air in to burn clean, that's without keeping EGT's down and the fuel delivered by the lpg and meth injection.

[exV8er]

Check these guys out.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/water- ... 9f5e29fd7a

[cycomut]

...20l per tank thats alot lol. i was hopin to use just when my egts are high or when i hit high boost as i do alot of heavy work in hot enviorments. although after having a read the performance gains look tempting, would be nice to have like an on/off switch and a boost/egt sensor for when in off mode. but this all depends on how i feel once the turbos done...gah.

[xenith]

snow do a kit that can be set on/off or by et's

[hammey]

...20l per tank thats alot lol. i was hopin to use just when my egts are high or when i hit high boost as i do alot of heavy work in hot enviorments. although after having a read the performance gains look tempting, would be nice to have like an on/off switch and a boost/egt sensor for when in off mode. but this all depends on how i feel once the turbos done...gah.

I use the snow performance universal stage 3 kit on a td42 with a 625ml/min(at 100%) nozzle.

This kit measures egt's, boost and percentage of injection. the problem with the stage 3 kit is that you cant change the cut in and cut out points.

It starts injecting at 8psi and achieves 100% injection at 18psi.

I bought the kit with a 7 litre tank and it would only last me about 110km of highway use so i ended up buying a 20L plastic sprint car methanol fuel cell and tee'd it in so i now carry 27L.

cheers smitty

[beast of a GQ]

So Hammey how much did u end up spending on this Stage 3 kit.

[hammey]

So Hammey how much did u end up spending on this Stage 3 kit.

from memory about $1500 but that was with a cut off solenoid that stops dribble and an extra tank which i bought later. on the site below it now sells for $1099.

Have a look at www.full-throttle.com.au the guys are extremely helpfull.

Mostly all i run thse days is straight water injection unless im in a comp or out wheeling and then i only mix 50/50 as any more and it becomes a little unpredictable on the hills

Xenith of here fitted and tuned mine and personally i love it

cheers smitty

[beast of a GQ]

Thanks mate

[tweak'e]

...20l per tank thats alot lol. i was hopin to use just when my egts are high or when i hit high boost as i do alot of heavy work in hot enviorments. although after having a read the performance gains look tempting, would be nice to have like an on/off switch and a boost/egt sensor for when in off mode. but this all depends on how i feel once the turbos done...gah.

yeah its a lot but thats with its running constantly as they are on boost all the time. with big motors they don't tend to be on boost at cruise so the WI isn't on as much.

devils is a cheaper kit. you can have basic boost switch, variable boost, EGT or even throttle acitavation. all depends on what sesnors are on your vechile and what you want to use it for. egt based and useing straight water, i doubt you will go through a lot.

what i was looking at was pre turbo injection to make turbo more efficent ie provide more boost for the turbo rpm.

[KiwiBacon]

...20l per tank thats alot lol. i was hopin to use just when my egts are high or when i hit high boost as i do alot of heavy work in hot enviorments. although after having a read the performance gains look tempting, would be nice to have like an on/off switch and a boost/egt sensor for when in off mode. but this all depends on how i feel once the turbos done...gah.

yeah its a lot but thats with its running constantly as they are on boost all the time. with big motors they don't tend to be on boost at cruise so the WI isn't on as much.

devils is a cheaper kit. you can have basic boost switch, variable boost, EGT or even throttle acitavation. all depends on what sesnors are on your vechile and what you want to use it for. egt based and useing straight water, i doubt you will go through a lot.

what i was looking at was pre turbo injection to make turbo more efficent ie provide more boost for the turbo rpm.

Spraying water in front of a turbo spinning at 100,000 rpm+ cannot be good for it.
BTW even my 3.9 litre diesel runs 8-9psi at 100km/h. You'd need a very big and lazy turbo to not run any boost.

[300WinMag]

You inject the water after turbo, the germans pioneered water methanol injection in WW2 to get more HP out of their plains at altitude to keep up with the spit fires. They used to run multiple injectors at different stages of the intake system. If you want to inject pre turbo you use straight methanol so it evaporates before hiting impellor blades and actually aids turbo efficency as it cools the air as it is being compressed making it denser.
However beware of running to much methanol obviously more bang = more pressure. Do your reseach. Lots of companies only recomend 20% ratio for diesels with 23:1 compression ratio.

[xenith]

spraying pre turbo will wear down the vaines over time and is not nessery

[300WinMag]

You can set up your WMI several different ways to achieve different outcomes depending on your application.
eg; Drag racing, comp work, economy booster, etc.
Most people just use one or two injectors for diesels, after turbo or the water will beed blast compressor wheel as stated.
Depending weather your also using an intercooler or not as to how much WM you will need aswell as Boost pressure, fueling, exhaust size, diesel gas setup ambient temp etc etc...
My advice is do your homework before fitting, use a reputable kit with good check valve as you don't want water damage and search Wikipedia, google etc to find more tech advice on where to position injectors etc.
WMI also know as chemicaly intercooling.

[cycomut]

Thx 4 the advice guys ill do some more research an see what i want to do, u might here back from me in a month or so....

[KiwiBacon]

You inject the water after turbo, the germans pioneered water methanol injection in WW2 to get more HP out of their plains at altitude to keep up with the spit fires. They used to run multiple injectors at different stages of the intake system. If you want to inject pre turbo you use straight methanol so it evaporates before hiting impellor blades and actually aids turbo efficency as it cools the air as it is being compressed making it denser.
However beware of running to much methanol obviously more bang = more pressure. Do your reseach. Lots of companies only recomend 20% ratio for diesels with 23:1 compression ratio.

It was used in WW2 to prevent detonation. Essentially letting the engine run in a condition that it would otherwise destroy itself (more quickly) in.

Using water to cool the charge does not make the turbo more efficient. It's just another form of intercooling.

[tweak'e]

Spraying water in front of a turbo spinning at 100,000 rpm+ cannot be good for it.
BTW even my 3.9 litre diesel runs 8-9psi at 100km/h. You'd need a very big and lazy turbo to not run any boost.

6litre+ v6 and v8 deisels in yank tanks

spraying water in front of the turbo is not as bad as it seems. provided its misted fine enough (it will go straight through an air filter) and you don't pour to much in and basicly flood the turbo it works fine.
plenty of turbo diesels around that have oil going into the turbo from the breather without any major damage. thats not even a fine mist, its often runs down the intake tube.

you have to spray it fine enough. big droplets will smash into the blades and erode them. also if the water/meth doesn't get evaporated by the turbo the water can pool on the blades causing problems.
so you need high pump pressure and small nozzles.

Using water to cool the charge does not make the turbo more efficient. It's just another form of intercooling.

its cools the air as it heats making the air denser and allows the turbo to compress more air per rpm. so basically you get more air flow for less work ie more efficent. the gains are generally boost on sooner and cooler intake temps. it makes the small turbo act like a larger turbo.
downside its only a small amount of cooling. for further cooling or adding fuel you need after turbo injection as well. i see quite a few now are doing combo's (pre turbo + after turbo). something about the tiny turbo's jap diesels use makes the pre turbo injection work very well.

[KiwiBacon]

Spraying water in front of a turbo spinning at 100,000 rpm+ cannot be good for it.
BTW even my 3.9 litre diesel runs 8-9psi at 100km/h. You'd need a very big and lazy turbo to not run any boost.

6litre+ v6 and v8 deisels in yank tanks

Who wants one of them anyway? Unless you're talking duramax. I've heard diesel suburbans running 1-2psi boost at 65mph, but that would have been the old 6.2/6.5

its cools the air as it heats making the air denser and allows the turbo to compress more air per rpm. so basically you get more air flow for less work ie more efficent. the gains are generally boost on sooner and cooler intake temps. it makes the small turbo act like a larger turbo.
downside its only a small amount of cooling. for further cooling or adding fuel you need after turbo injection as well. i see quite a few now are doing combo's (pre turbo + after turbo). something about the tiny turbo's jap diesels use makes the pre turbo injection work very well.

It's just intercooling, it still doesn't make the turbo more efficient. An intercooler upgrade would accomplish the same goal, with the side effect that you can cool a whole lot closer to ambient without having tanks to continually refill.
It doesn't allow the turbo to compress more air for each rev, not sure where you got that from. You'd have to substantially cool the intake air to do that and water/meth injection can't accomplish that unless you refrigerate it a lot before injection.
The only place water/meth injection can help with heat is when you're boiling the water/meth mix. That doesn't happen before the turbo intake.

[tweak'e]

It's just intercooling, it still doesn't make the turbo more efficient. An intercooler upgrade would accomplish the same goal, with the side effect that you can cool a whole lot closer to ambient without having tanks to continually refill.
It doesn't allow the turbo to compress more air for each rev, not sure where you got that from. You'd have to substantially cool the intake air to do that and water/meth injection can't accomplish that unless you refrigerate it a lot before injection.
The only place water/meth injection can help with heat is when you're boiling the water/meth mix. That doesn't happen before the turbo intake.

methanol will cool within a few inches of where you inject it from. water will do the cooling IN the turbo.
as the air is compressed its also cooled while IN the turbo. the turbo is compressing nice cool air which gives you more output.
maybe efficiency is not the right word. better description may be that it makes the turbo act like a bigger one. more output at cooler temps.
after turbo injection or intercooling will cool but won't give increase in boost.

i'm told temp of water doesn't make a big difference as the bulk of the cooling is done due to evaporation.