how to make a sierra flex

[4x4zook]

jus wondering whats the best way

[ofr57]

SEARCH

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... light=flex

its been covered before and read the bible
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... c48714.php

[tanshi]

* gets out the flame retardant foam *

just a quick hint before you get the response "Search Noob" be more specific, whats your vehicle, ie sierra, vitara. what mods have you got. we can't help you if you dont help yourself.

[alien]

nevermind the fact you want more flex - first establish why you want it and how much you want - then set a budget and see if you can achieve it within that.

almost any mod that improves flex will also need to be engineered too.

[Eff]

jus wondering whats the best way

The best way would be to give us some details of the sierra you want to flex.
ie Year,
What you want to spend?
What are your intentions with the zuk?
Who will be doing the work?
What off-road stuff you are going to do? etc etc

Don't waste people's time by asking a simple broad question.

Eff

[lay80n]

4x4zook - You need to post what model zook, what your want to achive, do you want to retain road worthyness, what your budget is etc etc. But before posting anything read the bible and search. This question has been asked over and over and over. The answers are there. Do some reasearch then if you need a specific detail answered then post up that question. Broad questions like this that bring no new tech to the forum and have answers that are easily attainable will never get any useful replies. If you write a more detailed description you will get a more useful and detailed answer. The board can only reply on what details it is given. Give it sh*t and thats what you get back. Dont take this as a deterent though, as the amount of info and help available here is amazing.

Layto....

[Gwagensteve]

first establish why you want it

This sounds like a dumb response but it's very important.

Flex is good, but the wrong sort of flex is very bad, and possibly worse than standard flex.

So, flex is one thing, but flex with poor balance makes a car terrible to drive.

What does bad balance look like? Have a look at the "show us your flex pics" in the Nissan page. There's eleventygazilliion photos of GQ's with no front flex and back wheels hanging all over the place.

Also, flex isn't really important if you have lockers. Once you have lockers, the only real point of flex is to make for a well balanced car, because it's going to get there anyway.

My tray has terrible flex. About stock in the front and 2" LESS than stock in the rear. I've got plenty of tyre and lockers, and whilst I do want more flex, I don't think it's really going to make my car more capable.

Anyway, whilst this stuff is all relevant, you really need to pick through the questions in the responses above and answer them - before we can help more specifically.

Steve.

[Highway-Star]

jus wondering whats the best way

You could park it on uneven ground, but doesn't always show it to the full extent.

Try a flex ramp, its what they were invented for.

[BlueSuzy]

Ramps are shit

I get way more flex with holes/dropouts then ramps.

Is this thread going to start with suzuki flex pics?

[Goldfish Wrangler]

This one seems to have plenty of flex.

[Highway-Star]

Ramps are shit

I get way more flex with holes/dropouts then ramps.

Is this thread going to start with suzuki flex pics?

Thats actually true for me too (and I dare say most); mine flexes like a corolla on a flex ramp. However In some real world situations it does "flex" better.

Still a ramp is a place to start if you want to "make" the car flex (to whatever degree it actually flexes it too).

[Guy]

Ramps have a place, they are great for testing and checking clearances (last thing you want to find out in a dynamic situation is that your mods have fouled the steering or that a driveshaft is to short, your diff centre and engine sump now want to occupy the same bit of space at the same time etc )

You will need to allow a few extra cm's of clearance etc from what you get on a ramp as compared to a true dynamic situation where there could easily be a few more cms worth of compression or movement in the shackles etc.

[Gwagensteve]

Ramps are shit

I get way more flex with holes/dropouts then ramps.

And that's the point. You'll cheat flex the closer the car is to level because there's no weight transfer. On a ramp, the front will unweight much earlier than on level ground because it's going light the car goes up the ramp.

Ramps are very useful for assessing balance - It's all about the angle of the body vs the angle of the front axle (if the front is going up the ramp)

Ideally, the front axle should be at about twice the angle of the body when a front wheel wants to lift. That's something most 4WD owners only dream about but is very easy with RUF on a sierra like Want33's car in the picture above. A car that does this is a predictable and safe climber. A car that won't flex the front when it's put up a ramp (so the angle of the front axle is close to the angle of the body) will feel spooky and loose regardless of how much travel it has.

So ramps have their place for assessing real world off road performance, just not the way they are normally used.

Steve.

[mike_nofx]

This one seems to have plenty of flex.

Look at the picture more closely... It ain't all that flexed up.
I'm sure it could flex much better, but pic doesn't do any justice.

[timbotim1003]

those links didnt answer the question at all, the question was how to make a zook flex.
flex is everything it should be at the top of the list of mods rite next to lift and tyres, i dont think lockers are the answer all the time, if you have flex is means you have all 4 wheels on the ground most of the time whitch will drive you fwd.
if you do lockers before lift and flex you may have the ability to drive into bigger ruts and lift wheels off the ground all the time and you could end up in a world of shit.
zooks drive fine without lockers you will be amazed how well a good LSD at the rear will do in one of those things

i think he means useing springs off other trucks, shocks, shock hoops, shackel reversal up front ect.

[lump_a_charcoal]

A mate is selling his superior drop shackles - PM me for his details...

[86slowsierra]

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic144 ... t=bluesuzy
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... c&start=15
http://www.auszookers.com/index.php?nam ... pic&t=3873

[Gwagensteve]

those links didnt answer the question at all, the question was how to make a zook flex.
flex is everything it should be at the top of the list of mods rite next to lift and tyres, i dont think lockers are the answer all the time, if you have flex is means you have all 4 wheels on the ground most of the time whitch will drive you fwd.
if you do lockers before lift and flex you may have the ability to drive into bigger ruts and lift wheels off the ground all the time and you could end up in a world of shit.
zooks drive fine without lockers you will be amazed how well a good LSD at the rear will do in one of those things

i think he means useing springs off other trucks, shocks, shock hoops, shackel reversal up front ect.

IMHO timbotim, you're wrong. In fact, you are so terribly wrong I could just make some cheap shot at you and bring the lolz, but I won't, because the myth of flex being somehow important is so prevalent, I'll explain why you are wrong.

Here goes. In short, I can have all four wheels on the ground, but if only 2 of them have drive, I can still be stuck. Actually, the more flex you have, the worse this gets.

I'm going to try and explain why, but it's not easy.

Let's deal with two "ideal" scenarios. Let's assume a car with lots and lots of travel, a 32" tyre, and excellent balance, and the same car with the same balance, the same tyre, and no travel at all, but lockers.

Each car drives up a steep track to a ledge. The track is steep. The ledge is really bad on one side. This is a very common scenario.

Flexy lockless car drives up to the obstacle, and beautifully flexes onto the ledge... but one back wheel now has a ledge to climb that's taller than the radius of the tyre, but due to the good flex, it has maybe 30% of the weight of the car on that wheel, so it can't climb the ledge - it's an anchor. The opposite rear wheel will spin, which has the same weight, but less traction because it's up against the ledge, along with the lightest front wheel, so the car is stuck.

The problem with open diff cars is they are great on high traction surfaces or the flat, but they are terrible on hills.

So locker stocker drives up to the same ledge. One front wheel goes WAY high as the back wheel hits the ledge (being in mind it's driven), but then as the car slows against the ledge as the tyre tries to climb it, the front ends starts to come down... and that picks up the rear wheel that can't climb the ledge, because there's no flex and all the weight is on two diagonal wheels, so the wheel against the ledge has no weight on it - so the locker car feels funny, but goes up the hill.

timbotim, I've been playing with suzukis for 15 years. I know what flex, lots of it, and lockers can do. My junk with lockers and no travel might end up on funny angles, but with enough nerve it will go anywhere a car with more travel will go and further than any car with one or no lockers. I prove it every time I go out.

don't get me wrong, travel, when it's designed to add balance- it allows the driver to comfortably drive some crazy stuff. I build cars with good flex and I'm always playing with ideas to add useful, balanced flex, but flex is never, ever, a substitute for lockers.

Steve.

[ofr57]

jus wondering whats the best way

spend a couple of grand on coilovers and links

[Turbo Tonka]

or just drive it,flex is over rated

[cj]

I'll take lockers before flex but only because I want to drive stuff My new build has a little bit of flex too though.

[Gwagensteve]

True Cj, but the balance is at least as impressive as the flex.

Steve.

[Guy]

True Cj, but the balance is at least as impressive as the flex.

Steve.

Steve Steve Steve


Think 18-20 year old .. the lockers do not impress your friends .. its about the big rubber and bragging rights ... been there done that ..

The new Zuk has 29's with welded rear and will get an airlocker front when I find one cheap enough and some T\case gears


Getting humbled by smaller cars running less agressive rubber (and beter traction due to better suspenson dynamics) but front and rear lockers is a great learning tool .. some people just cant be saved until they learn for them selves.

[rammer60]

gwagonsteve, although some of what u say is true, i dont believe lockers should be in front of an upgraded suspension system on the 'mod list'. i drive a flexy, unlocked cruiser, and its not uncommon to drive further than a less developed but twin locked car. without doubt a locker will keep u goin when u lift a wheel, but what happens when the bit of ground your on already has u on a gnarly angle?? as has been said, its about a well balanced car. driving without lockers quickly teaches u to pick good lines, which is very valuable.
also, a common myth is that an unlocked 4x4 is just a 2wd. this is excactly true. yes when u hang a wheel, drive goes straight to that wheel. but when u have 4 wheels on the ground, drive is spread evenly. for instance, u break a cv, u unlock that hub, switch the locker on, then try to drive up a flat but loose hill. the car wont have nearly the drive up the hill that it would with a normally functioning, unlocked front end. cause it literally is only driving one front wheel. u drive a locked zuk so im sure u know this. also when a wheel flexes upwards, there is an equal downward force put onto the other side of the diff, which actually gives good drive to the downward flexed wheel, until u reach the end of your travel of coarse.
i base alot of my opinion on an experience of driving my truck wit a mate wit a twin locked, zero flex old school land rover (shorty). yeah it was exciting watching him lift wheels everywhere ( and i mean everywhere, places where the rest of us didnt even look twice at ), there came a point where it all got too gnarly for him. n im not talkin about courage, i mean witout flopping it over constantly, he couldnt drive the stuff we were driving.
i guess at the end of the day these are all just opinions, and we're all entitled to our own, i just feel that lockers are for experienced drivers, and that first u need to learn to drive without them.

[grimbo]

on a flip side I have seen a couple of very very flexy buggys get stuck with their diffs all crossed and all 4 wheels on the ground just spinning their tyres going nowhere. Meanwhile a mildly modded twin locked Cruiser drove straight through picking a wheel up.

Why, because the buggies weren't generating enough traction because of their low weight and flexy suspension not allowing any of the tyres to grab and move forward.

[Gwagensteve]

gwagonsteve, . but when u have 4 wheels on the ground, drive is spread evenly.
there came a point where it all got too gnarly for him. n im not talkin about courage, i mean witout flopping it over constantly, he couldnt drive the stuff we were driving.
i guess at the end of the day these are all just opinions, and we're all entitled to our own, i just feel that lockers are for experienced drivers, and that first u need to learn to drive without them.

It is important to drive without lockers to understand the balance point and "natural" traction of the vehicle, but are you really comparing apples with apples?

A SWB rover suffers from all sorts of problems - Your cruiser already has a more width, more travel, more torque and more wheelbase. (Your cruiser isn't a tray is it? Then the added wheelbase makes it a totally unfair comparison)

I've driven open, LSD rear, Airlockers, factory lockers (GwagEn) welded rear, Spool rear/airlocker front. on all sorts of car over years and years.

An open diff always provides equal torque to both wheels. As you say, if both wheels have good drive, you have good traction. If one wheel has poorer traction than the other, then that's where all the drive goes. If that's not enough traction to move the car, you're stuck. Even if the other wheel is on dry rock. No amount of flex can help in that situation, and especially if a wheel is on a "gnarly" angle (whatever that is)

You will never, ever, ever, ever, ever convince me that flex is a substitute for lockers, and we prove it every trip. With the same cars on the same terrain with the same tyres, there no substitute for lockers. That's not an opinion. Shatch straps don't have an opinion.

Steve.

[rammer60]

again your right in what your saying and i mostly agree. dollar for dollar nothing will get u further up the track then lockers. and flex isnt a subtitute. but i firmly believe that lockers should not be the first mod done to a car. i could have put lockers in mine years ago but have chosen to pursue engineering the rest of the car instead. a suk will go anywhere with a pair of lockers in them, ive got the upmost respect for them, but i think lockers in an undeveloped car is just not complete.
plus i figured, once i put lockers in mine, whats gonna stop me?? u dont stop till your on your side, which then to me means time for an exo cage n lots of damage. if u wanna be properly challenged each time u go out. or u just lock it n drive everything way too easy.
lockers make a truck a serious truck, i just think advice towards a beginner should be to make a truck work well without them first?.

[Jock]

how to make a sierra flex

Sierra
Riser
Sixer
Fixer
Flex

Bad joke I know but hey

[rammer60]

and your right i know you cant really compare two very diferent cars, but i still think the rover would have been so much more capable were it able to remain more balanced. i drive a choped 60 series ute, which is still quite a short wheelbase truck, and i think it shows that a bit of flex is, while not everything, still important.

[get it up there]

Lockers all the way